You wake up one morning and think to yourself

"Hey I fancy setting up a forum"

How would you run it ?

I wouldn't, I come here :D

Well, I would think about it and see all the hassle that mods and admin get and decide not to bother!  Well done for sticking with it Mark, I would have caved in and deleted the lot ages ago.

>How would you run it ?

Why are you asking us?

You've been running a successful forum for many years now.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it ;-)

You've been running this forum for how long Mark?  12 years?

As you've said in the past, all things change.  And all living things die eventually.

Sadly, I think we're seeing the death throes of Champdogs now.

Not really sure why I started this thread and now I have started it I am not sure whether to participate in it either !

I have nothing better to do for the next hour or so, so I might just hang around.

Can't see why you started it either with the high tensions of the past few nights, you were just asking for these responses really :-) Think a chill pill is needed.

>I would have caved in and deleted the lot ages ago.

Crossed my mind many times

>Why are you asking us?

Because before she deleted her post above St Domingo said I had to listen to what the members wanted or there would be no one left.

>You've been running a successful forum for many years now.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Not broke ? - Lokis Mum thinks it is nearly dead

I have deleted my earlier negative post because i just can't be bothered any more.

But i will say one last thing. I don't see why people should have to spend their time on here time and time again, writing the same thing repeatedly to warn people off  a method of training that many people think is cruel when many people on here would like that poster banned.

>You've been running this forum for how long Mark?  12 years?

correct give or take a few months

>Sadly, I think we're seeing the death throes of Champdogs now.

I disagree Champdogs is alive and kicking. However one person could kill it anytime he wanted to.

Yup.  And you are doing it right now!

>Think a chill pill is needed

I am as chilled now as I ever am

> Because before she deleted her post above St Domingo said I had to listen to what the members wanted or there would be no one left.
>

You started the thread. You asked first.
And i didn't say there would be no one left, i suggested that you might be left with one contributor.

And i definately, most probably won't be saying anything more on the subject. I think !!!!

> Because before she deleted her post above St Domingo said I had to listen to what the members wanted or there would be no one left.
>
>> You've been running a successful forum for many years now.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it
> Not broke ? - Lokis Mum thinks it is nearly dead

Note the comment IF IT AIN'T BROKE - DON'T FIX IT!

It wasn't broke Mark - before YOU FIXED IT!

Does the fact that CD has had to alter the way that Google ads are shown - after protests by forum members - to ensure that adverts for e-collars are not shown - mean that your revenue is depleted?   Does this fact have anything to do with the fact that posters like Dennis Cartey are now allowed back here in many of their alter-egos?

As someone who came/found CD when looking for information and have dropped in daily since, it's heart for me are those who with years of experience and knowledge freely give their advice. Freedom of speach, yes but freedom comes with responsibility. Understand that it is a business and needs to generate revenue but at what cost, Electric collars are cruel, inhuman and I find it indefensible that individuals are allowed to advertise them at any opportunity. Loose members who give others the benefit of their knowledge and you loose the basis of CD.

You know when people write into Points of View and say 'such & such a programme was terrible why did the BBC/ITV etc show it'....you don't have to watch it, switch the TV off and go and do something less boring instead.

I've been on CD since 2002 but under a different name to begin with.   There's always tw*ts over the years, but if you fan the fire..........

Now we appear to have gone off topic a bit. The original poster asked how you would you run a forum. I don't think he wanted to know what was wrong with Champdogs, there are plenty of other threads on here where people are talking about that.

So its your forum, how do you get the thread back on tack, or do you just let it drift ?

> So its your forum, how do you get the thread back on tack, or do you just let it drift ?

If the thread was well-anchored in the first place, you let it drift....it will get back on track - eventually.

>If the thread was well-anchored in the first place, you let it drift....it will get back on track - eventually.

Good idea lets see how it goes

I am as chilled now as I ever am

I meant for others :)

> You wake up one morning and think to yourself
>
> "Hey I fancy setting up a forum"
>
> How would you run it ?

I would decide the reason for wanting to run a forum.

I would think very carefully about what type of forum I wanted to run - would it be one to "change the world", one to encourage serious discussion, one to impart knowledge and experience, one to cater to everybody's needs, one that specialised in a particular area, one that I could feel proud of etc etc.

I would need to have experience/good level of knowledge of the subject the forum related to.

I would have to have a good group of moderators and also the time to spare to ensure that the forum was running well and that I knew what was happening on the forum.

I would have a set of standards and stick to them.

But at the end of the day I wouldn't personally want to run an open forum :-)

>How would you run it ?

I'd give the mods some teeth

I'd listen to feedback

I'd operate with very clear TOS

If feedback suggested changes were needed I'd operate a short period of consultation, if useful, or just some personal thinking time to allow the best solutions to surface. 

If I was going to break my own rules or change TOS I'd explain why - and try it for a trial period

I'd use the right software to host the forum I wanted to run: to ensure that I could run fair polls, and manage posting behaviours

There is a lot that's good about CD but it's lost its way when a tiny minority (of users) are allowed to dictate the shape and form of the site as a whole

Lokis mum you were right. Thread back on tack and two excellent posts to boot.

However somethings are easier to say than do.

Out of the 11 points made in the last 2 posts I reckon Champdogs scores 6.5

If you had to put it into practise and run your own forum could you honestly say you would score better ?

If I was to wake up and say "Hey I want to run my own forum" I would down a coffee, have a smoke, and come back to my senses LOL

But in all seriousness, I would set a forum up where all topics could be debated.  But I would NOT allow personal attacks, threats, etc to happen on any board. 
I would set warnings out, and if you were to get a warning your posting privilages would be suspended for a couple days or whatever.  Something that had a consequence, instead of letting the vibe of the forum downslide.
I would not allow advertising to websites other than forum related.  Like if I wanted to look for another min pin and wanted to import, how would I go about finding a breeder from abroad?  BUT I would have one THREAD dedicated to posting websites, information etc about members. 
There would be a strict terms of service, with consequences if ignored. 
I would also add a feature that could say "Trigger Warning" or something like that if it is a sensitive topic.  Because I could start a thread about issues with min pin pups, and when you open it up it could be about cropping.  Which is not allowed in the UK.  Most members on this board would not like to see posts about cropping. 

But I do like CD and thats why I always keep coming back.   

I think I'd decide what I wanted and would moderate it pretty strictly. I would get rid of troublemakers, trolls, and bullies - whoever they were. Apart from that, free speech as long as it was polite.
Personally, I would ban shock collar supporters, mainly because I disagree strongly with shock collar use, but also because they all seem to be - kind of unpleasant and pushy, and are only on forums for one thing.

Not sure if that answers the question but there would definitely be chocolate cake and coffee involved!! LOL :)Lindsay
x

So many people have left over the ten plus years of the forum. Me I come and go and tend to leave again when things get too moderated or too heated.
I personally think when things are going on that the majority of people don't agree with such as e collars then the subject should be banned and maybe a post on here from those in charge saying why that subject isn't discussed eg that those collars are banned.
Because these subjects don't get banned the long standing members tend to get fed up or their posts get over moderated because they have lost their temper and they then choose to leave.  People such as John are such a loss to this board. He is now on a well known lab forum so thats fine for the lab people BUT what about others with different breeds he and others could help with their knowledge.
On the plus side champdogs is somewhere you can come and find help normally within minutes and somewhere where you can feel people really care. I came back last year as I lost a dog and was left with 12 puppies and although I knew what I had to do it made the world of difference knowing there were people who cared and supported us. I think the forum would be greatly missed if it disappeared.
So Mark sometimes it may seem like the forum is a thankless task and for the main part it is but I for one definately thankyou for having it here.

I think the key to running a forum like this is to try and gain peoples views on subjects that seem to be causing issues (like the collars issue) or changes that you think should be done to the forum format but in a democratic approach.

Engage and see how people feel on what the changes would mean to the members.

Perhaps have a sub committtee of members ( picked or elected ) and the Moderators that are the people that are consulted and feedback. Then you are ultimately responsible for running the forum and the changes but at least you have an idea of what the changes would mean to both the members and perhaps the reputation of the forum.

Responsible- Admin
Accountable-Admin
Consulted- Sub Committee Members/Moderators
Informed- Forum Members

Some interesting replies. Did I tell you the poster who makes the best post gets to be in charge for a week :-)

It all sounds great in principle, so off we go lets get this new forum running:

>I would NOT allow personal attacks, threats, etc to happen on any board.

How would you stop them ?

>I would get rid of troublemakers, trolls, and bullies - whoever they were.

Would you be the sole arbiter of who fitted into those categories and if not how else would your decision be made ?

>I would also add a feature that could say "Trigger Warning"

Would you code that feature yourself or would you pay someone to do it ?

>I would set warnings out, and if you were to get a warning your posting privilages would be suspended for a couple days or whatever.

And what would you do if the poster repeated the offence when they came back ?

Apart from the way it was set up and the positioning of the trusted mods, my forum would reflect my morals.

The people you have as members on a forum is very important if it is to be successful, we have a wealth of people with knowledge on this forum, people many would give their right arm for. As much as I may be in charge of 'my' forum, like any job it is the 'workers' who make it work, that I would never forget.

There is nothing wrong in people having differing opinions, there are many people on here with different opinions it makes a forum lively and interesting and we learn from each other.

But Mark if I were running a forum like this, common sense needs to come in when it is no longer the odd conversation or debate, when there seems to be an influx of threads being hijacked always with one or two people using the same theme, if I were watching this and this was my forum, common sense would step in and I would clean up my site.

The forum is set up very well, the mods are great, what is missing at present is that over-riding common sense which only admin can use, you don't have to justify it.

What you need to remember is we all love a debate, but no-one likes a rabid dog grabbing at their trousers trying to pull them over.

A forum needs to reflect the morals and values of the person running it, I would be mighty peeved, if anyone used my forum as a platform for something they wished to advertise, mighty peeved and my goodness they would be shooed away with a flea in their ear.

> You wake up one morning and think to yourself
>
> "Hey I fancy setting up a forum"
>
> How would you run it ?

Allowing the members to self moderate on a 3 strikes and you are out policy on all subjects that have been legislatively deemed unlawful

Allowing the 3 strikes is enough for the search engines heat seeking missiles to strike, allow readers to read all points of view, without saturating the forum with mindless and needless cage rattling.

I am admin on a forum where we also have a private room...a bit like a mods room,  no search engine can pick this up, and members earn the right to be able to speak in the room.  again it is self moderating, but because it is private, we can deal with certain topics without worrying about what the general public with pick up. The rest of the forum is open to search engines. 

The private room is a steam room.. as in letting off.. we get to complain, moan and vent without prejudice...It is also a place where the decision (by the members) can be taken to remove a troll, WUM, bullies, or persistant hecklers.

>I would NOT allow personal attacks, threats, etc to happen on any board.
>How would you stop them ?

The 3 strike system... two public warnings

>I would get rid of troublemakers, trolls, and bullies - whoever they were.
>Would you be the sole arbiter of who fitted into those categories and if not how else would your decision be made

As above, members discuss in private room.  all points taken into account.  Admin always has the final decision, but that is based on respected members voices

>I would also add a feature that could say "Trigger Warning"
>Would you code that feature yourself or would you pay someone to do it ?

If capable, then I would do it myself, if not, then yes, I would pay

>I would set warnings out, and if you were to get a warning your posting privilages would be suspended for a couple days or whatever.

And what would you do if the poster repeated the offence when they came back ?

Suspension counts as 1st strike... back to the steam room, and either they are out or are given another 2 strikes, depending on members feelings...

It has to be made clear though... the above is not open to abuse.. Admin has to have the final decision, .... Look at it as judge and jury.. jury put forward findings... judge decides ;-)   not the best analogy, but all I can come up with after 2hours sleep :-)

i think you are doing a great job,i love champdogs.Im not clever by any means,so I wouldnt dream of telling you how to run the show,personally,I think youve done the best thing with the controversial site,then people can avoid it if such subjects upset them.I personally dont think members should be banned unless they are abusive,but thats just me.Youre doing a great job.Hard to keep everyone happy and be fair!

> i think you are doing a great job,i love champdogs.Im not clever by any means,so I wouldnt dream of telling you how to run the show,personally,I think youve done the best thing with the controversial site,then people can avoid it if such subjects upset them.I personally dont think members should be banned unless they are abusive,but thats just me.Youre doing a great job.Hard to keep everyone happy and be fair! <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" height=10 alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20>

In defence of Kayc, ( not that she needs defending!) Mark did ask!  :)  Her suggestions sound sensible to me and she, and many others (myself included) would like to see this forum continue to be successful and informative.  All ideas should be considered IMO. :)

MarkR,

You seem to be saying that solutions to the obstacles (as perceived by the majority of posters) are practical/expensive.

I for one am not techno savvy enough to know how these things are run in the background- but, even if a ban is not possible, is there a way that posts containing key words, like "e-c", can all be automatically forwarded into a thread? Unless this is what you have already set up- though I got the impression this has to be done manually as it were by posters and mods.

Or/ in the same way that spam can be filtered out on emails, is there a way posts containing key words like "e-c" can be blocked at source- is this too complicated? The subject could still be debated if need be by using some kind of shorthand like "banned or contentious training devices", but you would stop the site being used for google links and advertising on e-c stuff.

I'm sure you may feel like saying, okay you do it. I hold my hands up, I have little idea how these things work so I'm asking if the second option is achievable? If it is is it very expensive to do? Finally, if you could do it would you- or would you have objections on other grounds?

I also wanted to say that the tactics of a very few posters on the e-c subject remind me of a trip to Morocco where one is pursued relentlessly by men trying to sell you a carpet you don't want; it is wearing and it doesn't matter how many times you explain you don't want one they will never give up because they want and need your money.They also come up with all sorts of ingenious strategies and ruses to hook you into buying.

> I think I'd decide what I wanted and would moderate it pretty strictly. I would get rid of troublemakers, trolls, and bullies

Good moderatoring, IMO, is extremely difficult :( In the 8+ years I've been on here there have been many people that have, IMO, been booted off and at least an equal amount that should have been. Also, several that were valuable (IMO) contributors, but their style was not appreciated by some - but that should not have meant them being booted out :(

Currently, the moderators/admin are doing a very good job IMO in difficult circumstances. I'm not one for automatically booting people out just because they are in the minority of opinion - that sets a precedent for those shouting the loudest getting their way about who is in and who out :(

CD will settle down again - these 'upsets' have happened before and will happen again. Posters come and go. There are currently a few excellent contributors who were not here a few years ago - more will join too to make up for those who leave :)

Perhaps we all need to chill a bit and not get so emotional about things. The best arguements are those made cooly and calmly.

It's all too complex for me - but I think this is a pretty good forum. It's not perfect, and I do think people who are constantly complained about by many different people should be moderated or deleted, but all in all I am ok with this forum. :-)

>is there a way that posts containing key words, like "e-c", can all be automatically forwarded into a thread?

Yes there is. A computer-programmer friend has set up the chatroom on his site (and the forum on his old affiliated site) where swear words are automatically changed to species of animals. :-)

hey,i wasnt having a go!sorry if i upset anyone!I genuinely do think mark is doing a great job.

I believe the poster was simpley stating her own opinion which just so happened to fall below Kay's post :-)

oh,cheers.

:) :)

Yes there is. A computer-programmer friend has set up the chatroom on his site (and the forum on his old affiliated site) where swear words are automatically changed to species of animals. :-)

JG What a lovely bit of gentle persuasion.

I'm sure something to filter out undesirable phrases is possible- if it is not too expensive or difficult. I do think people would like to see an opportunity for serious debate, even on matters they do not agree with. This would allow debate to continue, without the vast majority against e-c's feeling that they are somehow colluding in selling/recommending the product to all comers.

Having run my own breed forum for over 3 years now, I really understand and feel for you Mark! It's not easy to moderate a board - too much moderating and people get annoyed, not enough and people get annoyed.
There's a fine line between healthy debate and "trolling", the problem is there isn't ONE easy way of dealing with forums!
Trying to be "fair" is not easy and I think sometimes you (as admin) are put in difficult situations and you have to make decisions (whether right or wrong). We're all only humans, trying our best - maybe some people have lost sight of how useful for new dog owners/ breeders, this site is?
To be honest, each member of a forum should be able to "moderate" their posts, if I had banned a member every time some other members found their views outrageous or disagreed on a matter, I could have banned most of members or only left discussions about the weather!
I can understand that you changed the rules about the Ignore button - If you don't like someone's views, don't read their posts and certainly once you've made your point, do not fuel debates which only end up in "attacks" more than "debates".
This forum has always been quite healthy (IMO) - just because someone has different views on training (Which I DISAGREE WITH by the way) does NOT mean the all discussion board is dying!! Maybe sometimes, it pays to step away from discussions which make our blood boil!

Ok so you are now running your own forum.

You wake up one morning, lets say for example it is a Saturday morning, the start of the weekend and a time for many to relax. It is an beautiful day outside. You have just fed the dogs and you fancy sitting outside on your newly installed decking and watching the world go by.

Before you take your breakfast outside you drop into your forum and notice that someone has changed their signature to say :

"The Champdogs Enigma. Promoting ethical breeding of puppies and Electrical training of dogs!!!"

What do you do ?

I would wonder why they felt the need to do this, and ask myself it was true.

So is that a vote for "do nothing" ?

If there was a clear policy that "Champdogs" did not approve of the use of electrical training methods, that person would (and should) be removed. The fact that they promote ethical breeding is by the by.

2 points to ponder...

1) to fan the flames

2) there is no CLEAR Policy on CD to state otherwise

Both scenarios are true

If it wasn't true then the person should be asked to change it (or have it removed). If it was true then obviously that couldn't be done without appearing hypocritical. Without a clear forum policy it could be seen as a matter of personal interpratation.

Thanks for the replies but no one has actually said what they would do in those circumstances.

Ok lets try this one instead. I am going to use the forum Kay talked about as an example I hope that is ok with you Kay. For those who didn't read it earlier here is part of Kay's post.

I am admin on a forum where we also have a private room...a bit like a mods room,  no search engine can pick this up, and members earn the right to be able to speak in the room.  again it is self moderating, but because it is private, we can deal with certain topics without worrying about what the general public with pick up. The rest of the forum is open to search engines. 

The private room is a steam room.. as in letting off.. we get to complain, moan and vent without prejudice...It is also a place where the decision (by the members) can be taken to remove a troll, WUM, bullies, or persistant hecklers.

You are admin or one of the elite members of this forum. I am making the assumption that the forum allows signatures and also has no clear policy about what happens in the private room.

A regular poster (one who does not have access to the private room) changes their signature to read:

"This  Forum - The place with the private room where you get talked about behind your back"

What do you do ?