I am considering importing frozen semen from Finland and I'm wondering what kind of success rates and litter size etc breeders on here have had?  Also where did you have the Frozen AI done?  I live in Scotland but from searching the internet although I found one place near Edinburgh, Croft near Newcastle and Merefield in Cheshire looked the best on paper?

There was a thread on this not too long ago. General opinion was that there is no data to back anything up. No information  out there as to success rates. All we have to go on are adverts/internet sites....and they are not going to be bad

Yes it's a shame these places don't publish their results/failures.

I imported some frozen sperm from Finland and my bitch didn't take. If I wanted to use an overseas sire I would now take the bitch there.

There has been 3 Large Munsterlander AI litters in the UK, I think the inseminator was Gill Simpson (Tweed House Vets) but I couldn't say for definite.    All litters averaged 6 puppies.  2 of the litters were by the same sire, a dog living in Finland.

Two people in my breed that I know have sent frozen semen abroad.  1 resulted in a litter of 4 the other a litter of 12!!  I am not worried about having a slightly smaller than average litter.  I'd have to go back and check but Tweed could be the one that say they have a 70% success rate?  The woman I spoke to from Croft said the last 6 she has performed has resulted in 5 bitches in whelp with varies sizes of litter.  I will not take my bitch abroad, I feel between the vaccines etc they require for the pets passport and the stress to the bitch of 3-4 days of travelling each way the conception rates would be much lower than a natural mating here anyway which is why I decided to look into frozen.
I dont mind traveling within the UK to the right person to perform the AI. 
I have searched the board and cant find the old post on this subject, only one about the legalities of bringing in fresh.
Any insight anyone can offer would be much appriciated :)

> I have searched the board and cant find the old post on this subject, only one about the legalities of bringing in fresh.
>

Could it be this thread that was referred too?

I seem to remember many years ago a litter of Tibetan Mastiffs (?) born using AI and it was a huge litter, 10+.

Thats the only one I found in my search too.  I think they were looking for somewhere that does the semen collection this end.  Quite a few places do that as well as AI but to do it from frozen I need a clinic that does Transcervical Insemination (TCI).  Not all the vets that specialise in fertility use this method.  Supposedly once the semen is thawed it loses some quality and mobility which is why the best results come from using the TCI method and inserting straight into the uterus.  Supposedly it is also helpful in cases of a stud with reduced sperm quality in achieving a litter.

I highly recommend you get in touch with Keith Shea..... he explains the ins and outs and is entirely upfront and honest about success rates etc.

Tanya he doesnt do TCI, I was thinking of phoning him just to see where he would reccommend. 

I think the BVA are very anti the transcervical method so you may struggle with this.

As far as I can gather its only the surgical method they are not keen on?

> I will not take my bitch abroad, I feel between the vaccines etc they require for the pets passport and the stress to the bitch of 3-4 days of travelling each way the conception rates would be much lower than a natural mating here anyway

I have travelled with a Mother and a daughter.

First to Finland in October 2006, flying Heathrow to Helsinki, and then Helsinki to Kemi Tornio, and back the same way. 

I stayed 8 days and result was a litter of 8 of which 7 were reared.

Second was USA Dec 2010, Heathrow to New York, returning New York to Brussels, with an unscheduled stop in Dublin and 8 hour delay before getting to Brussels, then Drive and Ferry from Dunkirk to Dover.

I stayed 12 days, result a litter of 5 live and one stillborn.  Average litter size reared in my breed is 6, so no drop in fertility.

On both occasions I chose to travel in the cold months.

I've only looked at large livestock semen under microscope.  Certainly, with equines, I was amazed at just how many sperm died off while frozen.

I compared fresh, chilled, and frozen.  And, as I expected, frozen was a much bigger risk.

> Certainly, with equines, I was amazed at just how many sperm died off while frozen.

Thinking aloud - doesn't that make you wonder, if those that died because of the freezing might have been the ones that got there under normal circumstances?

It was fascinating though!  I know it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. (looking at sperm through a microscope)  But I was mesmerised.

Yeah. ok, I admit.  ODD

Barbara I dread to think the costs involved to fly with my bitch, at 55 kilos! :)  My own bitch was concieved in Holland and came from a good sized litter but on the whole out of all the bitches in my breed that I know of that have been mated abroad more than 50% have missed and apart from the litter my own girl came from the others that took had much smaller than average litters.  I know its all very much a gamble even with natural matings over here.  A friend in my breed has had 5 litters and 5 missed from her bitches over 8 years.  Out of the 10 matings the 5 that produced litters she had the stud at her home.  She is convinced her bitches missed the other 5 times because the were stressed being in unfamilar surrounding? 

I think it is all very interesting too Jean.  :-)  Not ODD!  lol

Can't you have chilled semen sent from abroad, it has higher rate of success to frozen apparently. Are the samples sent much smaller than you would get from a natural mating, when humans save semen one sample is split between several "straws" none of which seem to hold much.

I intend having a look at my 2 lads semen just to see what is going on, find it fascinating.

A lot of dog people are using farm veterinary services. Such services have been in operation for a long time and have facilities for storing frozen. And now they realise there is a market in the canine world, a few are branching out there as well. http://www.innovis.org.uk/breedingservices/dogs.asp have premises in Edinburgh if that is of use.

Having just got back from a two thousand mile round trip to Sweden on a non-productive and somewhat expensive mating, I can assure you that I will be using AI if I ever consider it again.

Jo

Must be very dissapointing for you Jo :(  I know the first time I tried to mate my bitch to a maiden dog I was so sure it would all work out.  It was only a 5 hour drive and we stayed the weekend and didnt even get a mating, I was so upset.  I suppose its something you learn about breeding that nothing is ever garanteed.

WOW that is a hefty price tag to collect and export/store semen.

Are overseas breeders willing to pay that much?

The KC are fine with the transcervical method. They are less happy because of what the BVA advise, about the surgical route but they have registered litters by the surgical method very recently.

Having myself had an expensive trip abroad taking a bitch to a stud dog and missed, I would be happy to try AI but I would like to see more info out there. Defra's website for a start, you can spends ages on there, rooting about and still not find what you are looking for :(

> She is convinced her bitches missed the other 5 times because the were stressed being in unfamilar surrounding? 

We will be travelling to Sweden to mate our girl in a few weeks time.  We were recently at a reproduction seminar with one of the top repro vets (I'm upstairs and don't have her card, so can't remember her name).  We actually asked the question regarding stress, and she said believe it or not stress actually INCREASES fertility - so that made us very happy and eased a LOT of our worries.

> Defra's website for a start, you can spends ages on there, rooting about and still not find what you are looking for

Very true!  Maybe easier for you to speak direct to the right department.  I would hope that they would have the knowledge to advise.

Imports Helpline     01245 454 860

HTH

Jean

Thing is Jo after huge expense and several attempts with different dogs all the AI attempts bar two in the last 30 years have failed in my breed.

The last litter born by AI they used all the straws in a last ditch attempt and that was about 10 years ago.

That's rough, Barbara.     Of course in the States just about all the frozen AI is surgical - for reasons such as yours I imagine.     We have succeeded with exporting chilled semen twice and frozen once - three bitches held fine.    And interestingly, half of one of the chilled batches sent to Finland was subsequently frozen, and used successfully in a fourth bitch.  

Jo

Sooo going by whats been said. We can export semen fine in this country and its successfully used abroad, either chilled or frozen. But when we import it, its less successful. Now that tells me one thing, we are not so hot with ai in this country. I am thinking it must be our methods. I know in the states its pretty much all surgical and the success rates are high.

I am sure some breeds are more difficult with ai than others, I have long suspected this from what I've heard and your experience Barbara backs this up.

I could be wrong but for chilled semen I think the dog needs to hold a passport?
From Finland chilled should be fine to get as long as the timing is ok, does not hit a bank holidays in either end etc...
As long as the vet used in Finland end is experienced success rates seem good with sperm sent out (I think the guidedog school is good :))
Driving there is quite easy as well, if you use a ferry you don't even need to leave the dog anywhere so no added stress :)

Hi Noora, your right they do need a passport if your bringing in chilled.  They also have to be proven.  For frozen they dont need a passport though.

Jo out of interest what size of litters were produced by the Fresh and frozen you sent abroad?

Fresh chilled gave 11 pups.    The same chilled then frozen afterwards had 5 pups.    The semen frozen to start with and surgically implanted in the States had 9 pups.

We also sent chilled to Belgium as the bitch could come here, but she didn't hold.

Of course a lot depends on the capabilities of the implanters, and absoutely correct timing.

Jo

Thanks Jo.  Have you ever successfully used anyone here?

Only for sending it off - Angelika von Heimendahl in Cambridge.

Jo

She was the repro specialist our breed club had for a talk and she was so very helpful (the one I mentioned above who's name I couldn't remember off the top of my head).  If you ever get a chance to go to one of her seminars do take advantage.  She was fantastic, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend her based on her talk and knowledge shared on the day.