Hi
My 19 month old GSD fifa has been very ill with what we think is a systematic yeast infection that has consumed his whole body (we think because the vet has never confirmed it or been able to treat him successfully). We have gone through over a year of vets, antibiotics, creams, steriods, expensive vet food etc etc but seem to have cracked it by purchasing a product from a company in USA called Nzymes and a raw diet which seems to be working (ive got everything crossed anyway!). Beacause of his complaint he has hardly any coat and his skin can be so itchy and irritated he literaly scratches and chews himself to bits. Well this has calmed down enormously now but because of his condition he has to be kept in alot, has a head collar on and up until recently was having to wear a t shirt. Not the life for a dog at all! Also because his skin oozes a large amount of gunk he needs bathing twice a week but before his bath he has to be kept where he spends most of his time in the kitchen because the gunk gets on everything and with a very young family its not hygenic. Because of his lack of coat i havent been able to keep him outside for long periods of time either.
Well thats a short clip of the back ground but he is driving me insane at the minute! Im quite sure that his problems are mostly down to boredom but we try to entertain him, hes been brought countless toys which he just eats and does not like fetch for some reason. He destroys what ever he can get his paws on in the kitchen. Im sure he scavaging for food but he is going to end up eating something thats going to really hurt him. He has now started ripping the rubbish bag that i have to hang up high because i cant put a bin on the floor. So he eats whatever is in it including nappies and other household waste. He has in the last week got hold of bicarbonate of soda, olive oil and balsamic vinegar which i have put out of the way and hes still managed to get. Anyway the list is endless for that but my main concern is that he is now weeing in the house every night even though hes being put out and isnt drinking excessively and he started eating his poo over the last couple of months. Which makes me feel quite sick when in the night hes pooed in the kitchen ate it then but up on the work tops pulling things down.
He is driving me mad!! Nearly everytime i go in to him hes done something and i feel like im constantly telling him off. Ive tried ignoring the bad behavior but that never worked. I know that its difficult for him and he must be extremely bored but i really need some tips because he could be like this for a good few months yet.
He eats approx 700g of chicken or a pork shank, 250g of heart, kidney or liver, some veg, bowl of porridge oats and some natural yogurt per day plus extra bits through the week of meaty bones and fish. I think this should be enough food for him, he seems to have put some weight on but he seems to be starving all the time. Could this be that hes wanting the full feeling that his biscuit food used to give him? I thought he would of got used to it by now as its been nearly 3 months.
Any comments or ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks for reading my post.

First of all - stop telling him off!  This sounds like stress - he's not well, he's stuck in one room a lot so gets destructive (not at all surprising for a young, intelligent working breed) and then you tell him off and add more stress on top of what's already there.  Ignoring won't work either - you need to reduce his stress levels.  Treat the cause, not the symptoms.

Have you tried anything like a kong to entertain him?  These will give him his food in a novel way that he'll have to work at, which will get his mind working (very effective at tiring dogs out).  As you're feeding raw, you could stuff it with mince and freeze it so it lasts longer.

The illness - have you had a referral to a specialist?  If your own vet hasn't got anywhere I would suggest this - if you can find out what's wrong and address it he'd more than likely be a lot happier in himself, he'd be able to walk more as well which would help.

Also, do you do any training with him?  Training works the mind which, again, will tire him out and reduce the destructiveness.

The coprophagia (poo eating) could be a combination of stress, boredom and sickness - all of these individually can cause coprophagia, with him having all three I'm not surprised he's doing it.  The weeing indoors again could be stress - how often does he go outside, and are you certain he's going?  Do you stay out with him to make sure?  Ditto pooing - are you certain he's doing it all outside?  My lab will go out for ages and not wee, if I then shut the back door overnight (they have a dog flap) she will wee because she was too busy sniffing around to go outside.

I have tried one of the treat toys before but he has just destroyed the ones hes had and there were supposed to be no destructable. Also i didnt know what treats to put in another 1 as im so paranoid about his diet.

In regards to his illness i have been to a specialist and the last time i seen him before christmas he gave me 2 weeks of another tablet that cost £130 and said that if that didnt work then ive got to make a choice because every few years theres a dog that he cant treat and fifa is that dog. So im no longer going to a vet as the vet before that he was under went there for treatment and he caught MRSA. I obviosly couldnt confirm this is where he caught it but when i transferred him to my last vet they failed to mention on his records that he had had MRSA. Im very happy with the progress he has made since the raw diet and Nyzmes supplements that he has been taking. His skin is alot clearer than it was and he has over the last few days had noticable hair regrowth. Has i mentioned before he is no longer wearing a tshirt and hes not scratching himself raw like before either. But hes a long way from being well yet.

Before he got very ill he was very well trained. No messing in the house, brilliant temprament. He still sits, goes to his bed and gives paw. He was due to go to a proffesional trainer but obviously couldnt take him when he got bad.

Im taking from what you saying to train him to not do the bad things. This is what i need help on because i cant change much about his enviroment until he gets better. He got infections in his paws when we were taking him out before and ended up with 1 elephant foot so im concerned about him picking up other infections.

He does go when he goes out to the toilet because i can see him through our patio doors. Plus ive been watching him more recently to make sure he doesnt eat it. Is there anything i can put thats natural in his diet to stop him eating his poo?

Hes a brilliant dog normally. Alot of my family have told me for my sake to give him up because of how much pressure stress & cost this has caused me over the last 14 months but i love him & have been determined to try what i can to make him better. Its also not helped him that i had a baby 9 months ago so our relationship has been strained. Especially when he had MRSA and the baby had just been born i had to be really careful around him.

I take any advice on board so thanks very much for your comments

I could be misreading your posts but it seems that he spends most of his time on his own - if this is the case is it possible that someone could spend more time with him to be company for him and stop him being bored? If someone could go out into the garden with him, rathr than sending him out on his own, and then spend half an hour or so in the kitchen with him, could make a big difference to his mental well-being.

you can get tablets called Deter which stop the dog eating their poo. they do work, but you will probably have to give him a high dose. they may help to break the habit, but you really need to cure the underlying cause to stop it completely. I would also be close by when he goes to tell him to leave and then pick straight away.

can he have pasta or rice. that might help fill him up a bit. How often are you feeding him? To help get weight on him, I would recommend giving him at least 3 preferably 4 meals a day.

have you had a stool sample done recently? (a urine sample might be a good idea as well.) this could indicate a reason for the morbid appetite, such as giardia or pancreatic insufficiency.

He does spend alot of time on his own but he also gets alot of attention at other times. Hes allowed to come in the house when hes been bathed because his skin is clear for a couple of days. He obviously has me tending to him by either bathing or descaling him every other day. We throw the balls he has for him but he but as i said previously hes more interested in eating balls than fetching them. And im mum to a family so im in the kitchen alot anyway. But we re a busy working family like many other dog owners.

Ill look into the deter, i do have to be careful because the yeast problem is in his gut and obviously food worsens the issue thats why we re feeding him raw. He cant have any wheat based foods. After many many hours and days of me searching the internet his problem is a common 1 as commercial dog food is basically full of crap to fill up their tummies on foods that dogs systems arent able to process properly.

If anyone has any tips on training him on his behavior issues please let me know. thanks

There's loads of different thinks to deter counter surfing, taste/smell repellent, stacked up cans he pulls down by taking something he shouldn't and zones to physically keep him off the counter area. http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-Pawz-Away-Instant-Barrier/dp/B000A76ZYS

I would think the faeces eating is related to his poor digestive system/health overall, he may be trying to reclaim some nutrients. I did hear one trainer suggest that dogs that eat faeces are usually being fed too much! Hence its not digested and they eat it. Catch 22 here as he is thin! I think maybe experiment with the amount he's fed to see if that helps.

A classic deterent to faeces earing is to put something bad tasting on it and set the dog up for a nasty surprise, your gonna have to be careful with taste deterent imo as he is clearly not the most robust gutted dog! I have used remote collars to make going near the faeces uncomfortable (similar to the zone really).

I would also look into a crate, not for the kitchen but for the living room, this way he can be with the family but not getting gunk everywhere.

I think overall more exercise and stimulation would help, try doing lots of training sessions and really working on his obedience ect. If he goes into the kitchen knackered he is less likely to try and stimulate himself.

Adam

I think what Nikita was refering to as training was things like tricks, teach him to give the other paw, so 'Paw' means left paw and a word like 'other one' means right paw.  You can also teach things like play dead, roll over, crawl, twist, weave.  It might be worth getting a book or finding some websites that can give you training and trick ideas - there are plenty of resources out there.  Learning anything knew will wear his mind out and help with the boredom.  That means he is then less likely to counter surf, bin raid and destroy. 

A black (extra tough) kong is designed for power chewers, as Nikita said put his breakfast chicken in there, or stuff it full of tripe or mince and freeze.  My dogs are much smaller but I stuff pieces (you can use whole or bigger bits) of chicken wings in there so they first have to work out how to get the bony bits out and then have a good chomp on their bones.  There breakky will often take them a good half hour to eat this way and they are cream crackered for a couple of hours afterwards.  If he really has to earn his dinner, that will wear him out again - also helping reduce the likelyhood of him finding his own entertainment.

I also think it might be worth investing in a crate, that way then you can confine him in there in the evenings in your family room (wherever that may be) so he isn't getting gunk everywhere but he is with his family so is not as stressed.  Crates are easy to clean too and any bedding could easily be washed during the day.  Even after he recovers the crate will still be a good investment, its a safe place like his own personal den.

Usually I would say eating faeces is bad habit, but in his case I think it is more likely related to his illness, so I would consult your vet about it.

It sounds like he is not able to absorb any nutrients from his food and his symptoms sound very much like EPI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocrine_pancreatic_insufficiency#Symptoms_of_EPI

I can't really add to what other posters have said, but I would just support the suggestion that maybe he is bored and needs something doing with him ... tricks are a brilliant way of engaging a dog's brain.

The other thing is to ask where he 'lives' a few days after bathing? You say that he's allowed in for a couple of days after bathing, but where is he the rest of the time? If he is more in isolation, then this could possibly be causing him stress? Sorry, I may have missed something in one of your posts. As luddingtonhall suggests a crate in the family area where he can go to but still be with you is an excellent suggestion.

Re poo eating, there is the suggestion that adding pineapple or pumpkin seeds to the food can help. I'm not convinced but there are people who are. Would either of these two things cause a bad reaction to his problems do you think?

What about playing 'findies' with him? Something you can do in the house, doesn't require lots of your time, just train him to the game and set him up. Use a special findies toy, or in my house we play 'drug detection dogs' using a catnip toy :-D They love it ... when they have the hang of the game you can send them out the room to 'go hide' and then come in for 'findies' ... a GSD should be very good at this game.

I do hope you can get the skin problem sorted out.

I think there is, as others have suggested, a lot of stress going on with your dog. I think firstly that you are doing very well coping with everything, and there must surely be times when you are tired, frustrated and just very busy! However, if you can do things like give him well stuffed kongs, play games with him, and generally give him as much as you can, this should pay dividends in the longer run of things.

Re telling him off - it's not working and anyway, his behaviour (esp. as he was well behaved before) is very much a symptom of his current life situation. Therefore it's not really fair to tell him off if he does something "naughty". A good tip from US dog behavioust Pat McConnell is that if you are just really fed up and cross, try talking to him saying "I am so very cross with you and every hair of your little furry body, you thief and wicked dog" but with a very happy voice and cheerful body language, so he is not affected but you may feel better. Human psychology, but if it helps....! :)

Lindsay
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The only way you will stop him eating the poo is to pick it up as soon as he does it.

With his poor digestion and what seems like some sort of immune system issue he will not be digesting and getting enough nutrients and so it is his way of trying to do this.

There are many suggestions of things ypu can try like pineapple but in reality stopping the source of the poo from him will stop him eating it :-)

I had a Lab with severe colitis who tried at every opportunity to eat her and the others poo and tried everything but picking it up was the only reall way of stopping her and meant I was more happy to let her lick me !

I agree that keeping him isolated will not be helping his mental health .

Have you also thought or have the vets discussed about looking at a food exclusion excercise to really pin point where the food intolerances are ?

Hi fifasmum--you've had a tough time of it! Do you think (in addition to having been poorly) he might be stressed and upset by a new baby--please don't think I am judging you at all, I just remember from my own children when they were tiny how much attention I gave them and how little time I would have had for problem solving with a smart, young dog who also needs help. Can anyone help you with looking after your baby while you spend one to one time with your dog--and maybe work with someone who knows you and your dog to take some of the edge off the stress you must be feeling? I really hope things work out for you both, best wishes :)

This sounds awful for your boy, have you thought about natural remedies or homeopathy?  Steroids and other medicines from vets do have a place but somehow I think your boy needs a more natural treatment.  Neem products are brilliant for skin, have a look at www.neemgenie.co.uk

Steroids will also make your boy HUNGRY that is why people and animals on long term steroids will put weight on and probably why your boy is searching for food.

Your boy sounds so uncomfortable, please do try natural remedies rather than the drugs and chemicals which can exacerbate the problem.

I see you feed him a raw diet which is good.  Because he has had lots of steroids and antibiotics his immune system will be shot at, so he needs that boosting, try some natural yoghurt, great for yeast infections, and also try colloidal silver to bathe his sore skin and as I mentioned above, some neem products.  Echinacea is good to boost the immune system and so is vitamin C and E for his skin.  Please try the more natural rather than chemical remedies for your boys sake.  There are homeopathic vets which can help: http://www.bahvs.com/

I have just noticed that his diet contains pork which is not the best raw meat for dogs, you will be better sticking to chicken and lamb, a small amount of offal per week and fruit and veg, cottage cheese, and only a small amount of fish.

Good luck with your boy, I am sure with time, and patience you will get him through this.  But please do not get angry with his behaviour, remember drugs do make people and dogs behave differently.

Also add pineapple to his fruit and veg which should stop him eating his poo

Thank you everyone for your comments. I will look into trying to train him more and try the kong toy also. Now he is not as irritated as he was so he might start responding but he is still quite lethargic and depressed and he hates being outside because hes to cold. Although ive grown up with dogs and my mum and dad have always had dogs this is my first dog so im not as experienced in the training thats why we were going to take him to a proffesional but he got poorly.

In regards to his illness he is not on any drugs. He stopped the last medicine at the beginning of the new year. In desperation last july/august time i found a website in usa called nzymes.com which is what i started treating him with as they listed all his symptoms as systematic yeast (its not available in uk). But then i got told by a breeder that he had mange and went to the last vet i was under so stopped the nzymes products and took his advice. The advice was that he didnt have mange, he got more antibiotic, steriods and vet food that cost £73 and lasted 2 1/2 weeks . He got better for awhile, the vet said he didnt have a food intolerance and that he was allergic to something else. He mentioned once he smelled yeasty but never said anything about a yeast infection. Anyway the drugs stopped working and he got bad again. So i looked all over the internet again and found a lady in beverley hills who runs a dog resue and has put 30+ dogs through the nzymes programme due to yeast infections. So thats why hes getting better but its very slow. He already has natural yogurt every morning.

I hope that in the next 2-3 months he will be much better and he can do what all dogs are supposed to and go out for walks which is what me and him are desparate for. I cant let him roam free in the house because unless you see and smell the stuff that oozes out of every pore on his skin you cannot appreciate how gross it is. The kitchen smells like someones died when hes ready for a bath, its disgusting.

There is so much i have learnt about over the last year in terms of dog food and the waste products and chemicals that are used in them regardless of their prices or reputation! Please dont think i abuse or neglect my dog. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of pounds over the time he has been ill and vets have only advised me to put him down after they ve taken my money. This has been very stressful for me and him.

I will look at the training that has been mentioned i think this needs to be done before he is socialised again to prepare him and hopefully he will respond well and i can train him well.

Thanks again for all the comments and advice. I hope that one day i can say this long treatment has been a complete success and he is the beautiful boy he was before.

Emma and Fifa x

Dont know if anyones suggested this already but could he not wear those doggie shoes to go out? then his feet wouldnt get infected? and a warm dog coat?. I know he'd look ridiculous but...may work!
Do you use a certain shampoo to wash him? i had a dog that started getting some skin problems and used alot of tea tree oil shampoo and then tea tree oil itself afterwards. (on a flannel wiped all over affected areas) I have no idea if this will help your dog but anythings worth a try i guess.. Also a bit of lavender essential oil on their bed seems to calm them nicely.
And has he had tests for thyroid problems?

Cant imagine how hard this has been with a baby etc! I'd seriously try the tea tree oil for atleast a month though, it has worked for me on a number of different ailments with different pets very well.
Poor guy he must be so down in the dumps.

Hi again, just a thought but have you considered contacting someone like Richard Allport? I understand he's a very good vet to help with this sort of problem.

Lindsay
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