Hi,  There is an open show (Beckenham) coming up that is not judged on the group system and there are no breed classes for my breed only AV Working or AVNSC. There is AV classes for Utility, Pastoral etc aswell. My question is can you qualify to enter into best in show if you win the AV Working I can't see it anywhere in the schedule to say or not?
Thankyou in advance

If your dog is over 12 months it will have to enter the AVNSC and win best AVNSC to be able to go into the BIS.

If a puppy any class will do if you remain unbeaten by another puppy.

If the show is NOT judged on the group system, then winning ANY class, as long as you remain unbeaten in subsequent classes, or you withdraw from further classes, allows your dog to compete for Best in Show.

Dawn R.

As the show has a AVNSC you have to compete in that if the dog is over 12 months, Dawn R is correct if it is a puppy but not otherwise.

Been thinking about my reply and the more I think the less sure I am - think I would not risk it if I had a good dog and go into NSC class - I have always thought that you have to do a breed class if available and if not the NSC class as they are the ones that have a BOB or BNSC declared but I do not have the time to check so suggest you contact the secretary and ask what their policy is.

As already stated a show which is not run on the group system, Best In Show is selected from ALL UNBEATEN dogs. Rule F(1)27c

Yep, if you win best AV working (and remain unbeaten) you can compete for BIS.

Still a bit uncomfortable about this, if you have a breed class you must enter that before you enter any AV class and if you do not have a breed class then you enter the NSC. If there is no NSC class then entering an AV class only may be OK. I realise I may be wrong but I am a bit unsure that you can enter just an AV class if there is a breed class or a NSC class available. Add to that the fact that the AV classes may be after BIS has been declared.

If you dont have a breed class, you dont have to enter NSC at a show not judged on the group system.

I am sure you may be right but what happens if the AV classes are after BIS. Am sure that some schedules say that you can't enter a AV class unless you have entered a breed or NSC class first, veterans and puppies excluded. However if the schedule for this show does not say this then it may work out for the OP but I would advise entering the NSC and aim to win Best NSC rather than hope to slide in from an AV class that may or may not be held before the BIS.

Hi Jackie, I think the crux of the matter is that the show is not judged on the group system. Due to the fact that all unbeaten dogs are elligable, I should think that there will be no judging left after the declaration of Best in Show.

Dawn R.

Yes, I am sure you are right, shows not on the group system are not something I know much about I am just a bit unhappy about suggesting that someone just does the AV class unless there is some reason why they can't enter under the NSC judge.

You don't have to enter NSC.  In the rules AVNSC are variety classes? 

I know some people do just enter the AV classes at this show, the classes are smaller than in AVNSC and so more chance of winning!

In the rules AVNSC are variety classes?

Well yes, AV stands for Any Variety so they are for any variety not separately classified. And in the rules are excluded from those rules covering AV classes ( the rules say any AV class excluding AVNSC) or words to that effect so they are not the same as AV classes. A best of AVNSC is declared where as there is no challenge following the AV classes.

That said I have no doubt that those who say in a show not judged on a group system an exhibit is eligible to enter the BIS contest if it has remained unbeaten I can't see why one would do so if there is a NSC class available.

>as there is no challenge following the AV classes.

Im pretty sure ive been to shows where they have announced a best AV.

I dont enter shows without breed classes(except for 2 of my local clubs limited shows) But I would much rather challenge breeds in my group than I would other groups. I might want the decision of a Hound judge above that of the judge for NSC...well thats just my 2 pennith & most shows do classify my breed...

Perhaps I should have  said there is no obligation to declare a best AV and many AV classes are special to a particular show like AV Special exhibitor bred, AV Not bred by exhibitor or AV live within 50 miles etc. where as breed and NSC classes have to declare a best.

The show I am associated with have  AB Sp. Beginners, AV Brace, AV Sighthound and AV Scenthound but we do not declare a best of these classes. We do however classify all breeds and Import Register or have a AVNSC hound class so there would be
no need and the classes may well be judged after the BIS

AV NSC is not an any variety class. Its a misnomer. It does have the word Any Varitey at the beginning but by its very nature is NOT for any variety at all.........just those not sep classified. AV's are as they say..........for ANY Variety, so as long as you fit the bill you can enter. As stated there is a requirement to award a BEST NSC but not a Best AV.

DIane

Agree Wirelincs - it is AV but only in the sense that any variety may enter or any variety of the stated group may but they are designed to offer those not otherwise classified a set of classes. I always consider other AV classes fun classes as no one would take the results as being all that important judgement of the quality of their exhibit when set against the standard for its breed.

When a judge is to judge AVNSC classes they know what breeds they are likely to get and most will make sure they are up to speed on the standards of those breeds but for the variety classes there could be anything entered and no one could expect the judge to be fully informed about them a bit like judging a match you do your best but I would not think the judge would be able to tell you about the standard of some of the breeds they are expected to judge.

However if your breed is not classifed and you want to support a judge or a local show by entering more than one or two of your dogs having he option to go into AV as well as AVNSC can be useful. I used this option at a local show so that I was able to handle all my dogs myself.

Edited to add the classification was such that the AV Pastoral puppy and Open were judged after the AVNSC by the same judge

Oh! agree, I like to got to a show and stay all day, so breed classes or NSC followed by variety and stakes, hopefully that will mean 3 different judges particularly good if you have a young exhibit.

so dose this mean that if there are no breed classes for your breed at a show. you dont have to enter AVNSC. you can just do AV .. ?

That seems to be what is being said "J" but I think you may have a problem with the show secretary or find the AV classes are judged after the BIS

The group AV classes are judged before BIS at Beckenham :)

The group AV classes are judged before BIS at Beckenham :-)

Sorry, did not realise we were talking about a specific show - have never been to Beckenham so end of conversation.

I think the AVNSC judge is the BIS judge.  So if he/she likes your dog enough to win BIS it will win AVNSC!