When breeding, how much do you think personality traits get passed on? Im wondering because my bitch who i hope to have a litter from is extremely high drive and biddable. I'm starting to think about what dog i want to use on her and it just so happens that i have my own male who lines wise, compliments her well, so it is an option that i use him- though certainly not for definate.

My wondering this question is because whereas my bitch has the drive and zest for life, my male is a little more reserved and not as highly driven(though he should be, according to the lines he is from!!)
Any pups produced i would want to have the high drive of my bitch. They are both built physically great for the job i require of them. I just wouldnt want to produce pups without the right temperament to do the job wanted :-s

I hope this makes sense, ive rambled a little!

This litter is a few years off yet, and my male is still young so may come in to his own yet :)

I have to say in my experience the temperament comes from the SIRE, not the dam. I've noticed it several times (in cats as well) but none so more than with two particular litters from the same bitch. You can't fault the bitch herself -she's even been character tested by one of the breed clubs. In her first litter 3 pups ended up with serious problems due to being extremely nervous. One of them I would say will never be a normal dog as he does not even want to leave the property here -bring a collar and lead out and he runs away or if caught sits down and refuses to move. He's that scared of outside life -and this is a dog that was socialised exactly as he should etc. I know of at least one other dog from same sire who also has problems, different mother.

Mated the same mother to a different dog and the pups couldn't be more different. The first litter started to shy away from people already at 3 weeks of age. In the second the pups were throwing themselves at people in delight at that age. It wasn't just me that noticed but my friends, trainers, and also one couple had a pup from each litter so noticed the difference very clearly.

I have more examples but this is the most obvious one. One simple working example though: my foundation bitch has never had any interest in retrieving or toys and I've never managed to teach her to retrieve, not even the clicker way. Her pups LOVE carrying toys around and will retrieve.

In my expereince personality traits come through very strongly, but you need to look back further than just parents..

I have found that our latest pup, sired by one of ours is the double of his Dad in temperement in all ways down to the noises he makes when you are cuddling him. The owner of the bitch says the pup she kept is very different from her Mum and much more like my boy behaviour wise.

I have to say in my experience the temperament comes from the SIRE,

Usually agree with you but in this case my experience has been that strong traits can come from either side - all my dogs have related studs but have totally different dams and totally different characters. The Sod has a dam and sister that were also hell raisers but a brother that takes after the stud.

Not having lived with the sire of my 3 puppies I can't be sure, but certainly the 3 puppies Ellie has had take after her a LOT in temperament, particularly what we have started calling the 'smothering' gene. This is a very dominant gene that my Henry didn't have, though of course he was cuddly. But the smothering gene makes the dog want to stand on your lap with paws on your shoulders and cover your entire face with their chests and throats. Ellie and all 3 of her children do this a lot!! :-p

'smothering' gene

Oh! I've got one of those, if he can he likes nothing better than to lay on your head - don't think he has an Ellie in his pedigree though.

Could the "smothering" be a learned behaviour from seeing their dam do it.

Not had enough litters to comment on who passes on their temperament to the pups, maybe when my boys sire some pups it will be easier to spot as I live with them and the girls.

Personality traits come through very strongly, although I could contraditc myself with this... here's and example or two :-)

I have Tia, who is laid back, very very biddable and just a dream when it came to training, and an excellent worker and ex-showgirl

I have two daughters from her, half sisters, different sires...

Hannah is clingy, excitable, but has this inbuilt complusion to please... Where this excitable trait come from, I have no idea, her Sire, my homebred Hunter, is a complete Sloth as is his Dam (rolls eyes)

Xionee, 18months younger, is calm,easy to train, and just a dream in nearly every way... she does take this from her mother,  her father was the most excitable, in your face, demonic menace that ever walked (jumped around) the face of the planet.. and went by the name of Ollie (Spawn of Satan :-) ) 

I would look at traits of close relatives of both Dam and Sire too, 

I mated 2 litter sisters who have a similar temperament to the same dog and although they were raised exactly the same way the pups were very different. The first litter were more reserved but eventually friendly and the 2nd litter of pups had waggy tails from a very young age. I kept a bitch from the first litter and she has inherited - according to a friend - the 'cowbag' gene.

I mated 2 litter sisters who have a similar temperament

:-) :-) that's a good trick

>I mated 2 litter sisters who have a similar temperament
> that's a good trick

rofl @ Jackie.  That cracked me up.

Not with the 2 who left here at 10 weeks I wouldn't have thought, though perhaps she was whispering instructions to them in the nest.....

>Could the "smothering" be a learned behaviour from seeing their dam do it.

> Xionee, 18months younger, is calm,easy to train, and just a dream in nearly every way... she does take this from her mother,  her father was the most excitable, in your face, demonic menace that ever walked (jumped around) the face of the planet.. and went by the name of Ollie (Spawn of Satan :-) ) 

I sincerely hope you typed that whilst clinging tightly to a wooden table Kay - there's still time for the Ollie gene to rear it's nutty head :-D :-D

> The Sod has a dam and sister that were also hell raisers but a brother that takes after the stud.

Love it!  :-)

Delightful name.

There is a difference between genotype and phenotype:  That's to say, that what is expressed (physically or in personality) is not the same as the genes which the dog carries and will pass on.

I agree with the poster that you have to look further back than the immediate sire and dam.  In some lines there are very strong characters and these can come down the generations, sometimes missing one but coming out in the next.  You also have to consider too much drive! Look at lines, look at progeny of both parents and other relations.  In border collies many merles have a common ancestor and it's one that I'd avoid unless there have been a least two generations without traits I recognise in my own merle collie - he's not nasty, but he has some weird traits and I really wouldn't want another one like him or some relatives whose temperaments are suspect :-(  So, find out about all the ancestors and relatives before making a decision.

My youngest flatcoat has the sire's nature (they are both nuts :) ) but fortunately his mother's brain!!!!!!

My springer on the other hand has taken her mother's nature (they are both awkward and bossy :) ).