If there is no breed class for your puppy do you have to enter avnsc gundog puppy or can you enter and go forward to group (obviously assuming you did that well ;-) ) from an av puppy class because you preferred the judge in that class to the avnsc?

Yes you can enter either and providing you remain unbeaten by another puppy you can go forward to the group.

Thank you for quick reply.

I am still learning about showing and get quite confused still :-)
Yesterday we were at an open show and the AV classes were judged AFTER the group judging was done so the winner couldn't go further.
I do know that the AVNSC class winners can go into the group but are you sure AV can?
Paula xxx 

Yes, but only if they are judged before the groups, the show society should ensure that the AV puppy does take place before.

As far as I understand the rules any puppy entered in any class and not beaten by another puppy can continue to the group. The class does not have to be a puppy one a puppy entered in AV Open can continue unless it is beaten by a puppy.

If the class the puppy is entered into is a breed or AVNSC then the pup has to do the challenge to find best puppy but there is no challenge following the AV classes so if you win the class or even if unplaced providing there are no puppies placed in that class you can go forward to group because the puppy has competed and remained unbeaten by any other puppy.

Edited to add that if you are entered in breed or AVNSC and AV you have to do the breed or AVNSC but if you are only entered in an AV class then you are through to group if you are unbeaten by a puppy - does not matter how many adults you are beaten by as long as it's not a puppy.

In that case if one wanted to play tactics ie knew a friend was putting a puppy into av puppy instead of avnsc, one could then put one's puppy into the Junior class anticipating that there might not be any puppies in it and or not compete against friends puppy?

Its usually very unlikely you would get AV Puppy and AV Junior though ;)

That is true if you want to play tactics best chance would be in open - but then we do not go to win at any cost and to enter puppy is much more fun.

It happens a fair bit if someone has bred a litter and kept two back, one goes into puppy and the other in one of the other classes.

Rachelsetters there are both classes hence my question and it wasn't an inference that both puppies could win their classes, but that as they are from the same litter it seems a shame to put them in exactly the same class, not to win at any cost either, but there again it isn't just about fun when one is spending a great deal of money on entries and travel.

If you have two pups to show I would put the best into AVNCS and the other into AV puppy unless they are nearing 12months and then you may prefer to put one into Junior (the most mature)

Something I was wondering about on this topic. If a show has the normal group and also a puppy group. if you win Minor puppy or puppy you go through to the puppy group against all unbeaten puppies, can you also go into the group if they ask for all unbeaten dogs?

Only dogs declared BOB or Best NSC can go through into the group.

All unbeaten puppies, can only go into the puppy group.

It's an issue that causes a lot of confusion!

HTH

Yes, of course puppy group as we are talking puppy - think I said it did not apply to adults but perhaps not.

Also the adult group is & should always be judged before the puppy group. Only if a puppy is declared BOB or Best NSC should there be a puppy in the adult group.

Many thanks I was very confused at weekend!!!