Hi,

I was just wondering at an Open show if you had to have won a breed class to get through to best in group or can you qualify from an AV class?

If a puppy your can qualify in any class as long as you are unbeaten by another puppy, but others have to enter and win best of breed or best AV not separately classified.

I think it depends on the show, and how it is put in the schedule. It's not the first time I've been in a group with more than one of the same breed (usually Cockers ;-) ) because the AV classes were judged before the group. You would need to read the schedule to find out. AVNSC are normally before the group is judged so that the best AVNSC can go into the group, and the AV is normally, but not always, after group judging is finished.

General Group Open Shows:
Adult Group: Best of Breed Winners & Best AVNSC ONLY
Puppy Group: Best Puppy In Breed & Best NSC Puppy & Winners of AV Puppy classes provided they are unbeaten by another PUPPY.

AV Puppy and AV Open winners are NOT eligble for Adult group competition.
Is that what you were after?

A few years ago I was at a show where no one knew the regulations...the judge gave the group to the winner of AV PUPPY. Then they checked regulations and had to take the award back!

We had this with our Draco at a show a few weeks ago where he wasn't allowed to compete in the puppy group ring as he came through the AV class the answer is as others have said if unbeaten by any other puppy then yes you can compete in Group.

Thank you everyone. It was the puppy in particular I was curious about.

At the show in question, the AV minor puppy and AV puppy classes are before the breed classes and then after there are two AV N.S.C classes and a AV Veteran class. Then the BIG and BPIG are judged.

I just wondered why the AV minor and puppy classes were before the breed classes? I've entered the AV minor and a puppy breed class. So if for example (I think i'm being a bit ambitious here) she won the AV minor puppy, should I not then enter the puppy breed class?

I would be surprised if the AV class is judged before your breed class, is that how it is in the judging order...please be aware that the judging order is not necessarily the same as the order it is printed in the schedule.

Hi Lexy,

That's how it's printed in the schedule that comes with the entry form.  I hadnt realised the judging order might be different. Do you just normally wait until you get to the show to see the order?

Sorry, it's probably obvious but this is my first show so I just wanted to have an idea of what's going on!

There should be a judging order printed within the schedule...but not all do!

I had just presumed that was the judging order - it's got the classes listed with numbers for each and the time each group starts with the ring numbers etc.

In this, the AV minor pup and AV puppy are before the breed classes.

>Do you just normally wait until you get to the show to see the order? <br />

Is it an Open Show?  Order of judging is usually in the schedule somewhere - try the inside front cover or on the back.  Sometimes judging order is confirmed in the dog press but that's usualy mentioned in the schedule too.

:) Good luck at the show, when is it?  If you tell us which show it is maybe someone could have another look for you

Not all open shows will put a running order up till the entries are in - to arrange the running order when you know the numbers involved makes better use of the rings and avoids (if it is done with care) the empty ring when there are still breeds to be judged.

To try to be concise: - A puppy that has competed and remained unbeaten by any other puppy may enter the Group/BPIS

If you enter a breed class and you are present you can not withdraw in order to remain unbeaten, if entered in the breed class you must do it. However if you win the breed best puppy you can withdraw from remaining classes.

I have known AV Puppy to be held as the first class and if you win that and still have the breed class to go you will have to win breed as well or you will not be unbeaten.

So a puppy may be entered in any class at all and providing you remain unbeaten by another pup you can go forward to group or BPIS

Of course, if the show is judged on a group system it will be group if not BPIS

When training a puppy for the ring I think to enter under different judges is a good idea but to worry about the group or BPIS can make your training program difficult to accomplish as you are worrying about being beaten rather that having a good time with the pup and making sure that enjoyment for the pup is paramount and withdrawing if the pup becomes tired.

What show is it? Maybe we could have a look at the schedule online and let you know?

Hi Nova,

I completely agree, she's still just 7 months so I intend on just going to have fun with her. She loves the excitement of it all and I'm sure she'll tire herself out quite quickly. I'm not worried whether we win or not, we'll just have a good time. I'm still completely new to showing so I just wanted to figure out these different scenarios so that at least I know how things work.

I'm so excited! The show is tomorrow and it's our first one!

Then I wish you loads of fun and if you also have a win that makes it that bit more enjoyable - ask if you need help you will find 99% of show people are only too willing to help and advise and the steward is there to help you so if you are unsure tell the steward it is your first show and they will make sure you are where you should be.

Take note what the judge in your ring is doing if they have a breed before yours and then you will know what you should be doing when you go into the ring, mind you with a pup you will no doubt be doing what the pup decided should be done.