can any one tell me as a rule of thumb when do you start worrying about weight gain / loss ?

I have no knowledge of large breeds and how much is acceptable. If they are dehydrated then if you pinch the skin it will stay puckered rather than springing back to normal.

If you are worried either speak to someone who has your breed or the vet.

I expect a small loss (or remain fairly constant) in weight in the first day or so after birth, and then steady gain every day after, going up to about twice the birth weight by about Day 8 (give or take). 

How old are they?  What's happening?

Thanks guys - these pups were born between 430grams and 630grams and in first day have lost around 25 - 40 grams ( not all of them ) not sure if this is ok or when to get worried.
Also,Mum is cleaning bums - but not too often? how often should she be bum cleaning ? also,if she dosent,should i clean with cotton wool and water of baby wipes ? will these make them sore ?

Just use warm water and cotton wool as you don't want any yucky taste putting Mum off.

They just seem to know, they can appear to be dozing then just suddenly start cleaning one of the pups.

That isn't a bad loss, only 1-1.5ozs [in old money]as they were big pups to start with,you could try weighing a couple before and after a feed to see what they are taking in, her milk should be fully in over the next 24hrs.

Are the pups quiet and settled? They will make a racket if hungry.

they are settled,just weighed and all have gained since this morning - phew - all but one at or above birth weight.
Now worried about Mum who was nursing them and whining a bit :-( ??

Like I said, a small weight loss like that in the first day or so is totally normal, and they should start to put on thereafter.  Try not to worry.  They will be whingey if they are hungry!

Bitch will still have pain as her womb contracts over the next week or so, so expect discharge (browny old blood) and some panting or digging as she copes with it. 

If discharge changes to something else (esp. bright red) then straight to the vet, and also as someone else has said, watch out for signs of eclampsia.

I do give my bitches goats milk, diluted with some water and some liquid glucose added (for energy) in addition to their normal feed.  I like to know they are drinking plenty and also getting some natural calcium in their diet (sardines are really good too!).

Sorry to be a pain - what are the signs of eclampsia ?

> Sorry to be a pain - what are the signs of eclampsia ?

check out the eclampsia thread by lea.

you will find that tooolz has posted signs.

thanks,i think she is having a bit of pain in her tummy,she is digging a bit.She has been panting - but always does as is a double coat breed and the whelping room isSOOO hot for her bless her

> think she is having a bit of pain in her tummy

I would guess it's more than a bit.  Very similar to contractions, so not pleasant.

> She has been panting

Again, I accept dogs will do that if hot - but in this case I would think pain is the highest factor.  Some of my girls have panted for up to 2 weeks after whelping.

yes she is making little noises when she nurses too,can see her clench tummy a bit.Will wash her back end with some hibi scrub again and check discharge colour

The uterus contracts when the puppies nurse which explains why she is uncomfortable.

If she is doing alot of panting make sure she is getting enough fluid to compensate as the pups will be taking alot too, I found broth made from boiled up chicken carcass gave the fluid a nicer taste as water on it's own wasn't going down too well, as already said goats milk too, it now comes in long life version so you don't need to be constantly looking for fresh.

was worried goats milk might bring on eclampsia ? isnt this tough? worrying bout pups eating / gaining / weeing poohing - then worrying about Mum about vetting homes - some one should tell all this to the damn plonker at the RSPCA who complained about Crufts

> was worried goats milk might bring on eclampsia ? isnt this tough? worrying bout pups eating / gaining / weeing poohing - then worrying about Mum about vetting homes - some one should tell all this to the damn plonker at the RSPCA who complained about Crufts

Try not to worry!  Sounds like all is fine, and she is doing a good job as a mum.  Giving a bit of goats milk AFTER pups are born will not cause eclampsia!  Dietary calcium such as that and what is found in sardines etc is good.  Enjoy your puppies :)

Thank you - its all a bit 'new day new issue' - mostly due to lack of sleep.
We have a cat flea issue now,all have been frontlined,Mum hd the spray during pregnancy - but seen a few little blighters today.
I've used a house pray upsatairs - whelping downstairs - but am scared to do it down stairs - also scared now about all my clean washing in the basket - what if some of the spray fries on the clothes and then i wear them in the whelping room? should i re wash them all? grrrr

Mine sounds similar, she's panting a lot and not too keen to have one permanently latched on today.  We've had to turn the heat down as all were too hot.  i was worried before and thinking about eclampsia but i think she's so tired, she hardly slept and sore.  A lot better now she's been to toilet both ends and settled back down.  the digging has subsided for now as well.