I know lots of people think he's wonderful, but watch this video - through to the end if you can because they get worse.

I've never liked him, prong collars, e-collars and his own illusion collar, alpha rolls etc - all means of torturing not teaching to my mind.

Thoughts?

Full agree - horrible methods, horrible man - especially horrible because he is SO devious, saying one thing and doing entirely another.

Does anyone know how to download a vid like that, because I believe his 'powers that be' are trying to remove it [which legally they can do as the person who made it wont own the copyright]. He has previously gotten rid of a lot of other vids sthat show him in a less than favourable light.

He is annoying me even further of late as he is 'cosying' up to various positive, NICE trainers in an attempt certainly in the UK to make him look less of a ...... [i dont need to type that do i!].

Grr. If it wasnt for the beta blockers my heart rate would be sky high just thinking about the horrid little man!

I've said all along his methods are evil but I even know supposedly good dog trainers who sing his praises!  It's funny how some people seem blind to what he does in the shows.

I agree with the message he puts out there regarding a calm attitude and how important excersie is for the dogs but as for the rest....hmmm better not say anything.

I have copied this and pasted on my f/b status, interesting enough I put two similar ones on earlier this week. I am not shocked, I have never liked this man.

I had already seen this and posted to my FB page, the more of Joe public that see this the better IMO.
Obviously to get the best out of my Girlies I need to KICK them more....somehow I don't think I would get the same results as I do with a pocket full of goodies. Hope one day he gets it wrong and a nice BIG doggie bites him HARD...
Aileen

Posted that to FB and some other places the other day, tried to download it as it will no doubt be removed -didn't manage. I have videos saved of him using electric shock collars though! (Now there's a thought, maybe AP is really CM in disguise?!) Now there's somebody the RSPCA  (and Jemima) should have shouted about when he was allowed into the UK last year to go on tour!!!

I heard of a new FB group, started today, called
Keep Cesar Millan Out Of The UK !!!!!!!

Already has over 300+ members, and links to videos - as most CM vids don't spend very long on YT it's useful to be on a group like this to get up-to-date links.

I personally wouldn't use the "kick" he does with a dog BUT then my dogs are well behaved and do not need to be delt with by a specialist because they will attack dogs/ people.
Taken out of context, it looks awful but maybe put back in the context that these dogs are at risk of being put down and turned over to a rescue centre (and maybe put to sleep) maybe extreme measures are needed...
Although I do not agree with everything he does, I can see sense in the ideas about dog psychology. Observe a bitch with her pups or your dogs together as a pack. My little bitch (smallest of them all) will flatten my other dogs if they bother her and she's not in the mood - this is the way they behave and impose some sort of order between them.
Let's face it, some dogs wouldn't be in the situation they are if they hadn't been treated like babies or left to rule the roost...
JMHO

but how your dog treats other dogs is normal canine behaviour obv. we shouldnt copy it, dogs KNOW we arent dogs
they may enjoy getting their own way such as laying on our comfy bed or nicking our dinner, but they arent trying to dominate us by doing this, they are looking after number one

I agree but what about these dog aggressive ones... i don't think treating them will solve the problems :-(

Taken out of context, it looks awful but maybe put back in the context that these dogs are at risk of being put down and turned over to a rescue centre (and maybe put to sleep) maybe extreme measures are needed...

It's a proven scientific fact that treating aggressive dogs with kindness is far more effective than with punishment.

Observe a bitch with her pups or your dogs together as a pack. My little bitch (smallest of them all) will flatten my other dogs if they bother her and she's not in the mood - this is the way they behave and impose some sort of order between them.

Indeed -so observe PROPERLY. You will then see that the "flattening" is done by body language ONLY, no physical force at all.

I don't know how much of the film you watched but at least two of the dogs weren't reacting to anything until he kicked them!  I've seen people writing on other forums after seeing it, that he only gives them a tap!! It takes more than a tap to lift a dog off the ground.

IMO there is no context where what he did in that film is acceptable.

I can't stand the man!

he also seemed to kick them when they werent doing anything wrong and they certainly reacted and it must have hurt them

Ludivine - the point here is, Cesar sets these dogs up to react badly. There was another video on youtube of a 'behind the scenes' set up, where he uses a stooge dog to wind the dogs up, so that they will react in the WORST possible way for the cameras.

So, he creates the situation - he then uses his kick to trigger reactive behaviour, and THEN he can step in with his 'magical' touch to calm things down again [ie, choke the dog into submission].

Yep, some dogs will flatten others - but the dogs that do this a lot are not the dogs other dogs LIKE and want to be with. Surely we want our dogs to like, trust and respect us... not fear and avoid us!

In feral situations, dogs who behave as Cesar does, ie, throw their weight around, guard spaces and items, constantly threaten - these dogs are avoided LIKE THE PLAGUE. They also die a lot younger as they are constantly picking fights! Again, is that the relationship you want with your dogs?

Also you need to question the 'context' of these shows. Sure the owners SAY 'but we will have to have him put down if we cannot fix the problem', but over and over again it is proven that peopel WILL quit using methods that ARE working, in order to appear on a TV show. They WILL say dramatic, scripted stuff like this on TV shows, and time and time again I come across people who tell me they have 'tried everything', and in fact they have done nothing of the sort.

That is human nature, and Cesar justifies his methods by making out they are a last resort and are 'necessary' but people have and continue to turn around INCREDIBLY dog aggressive dogs, and people aggresive dogs, using positive reinforcement.

The pitbulls that were rescued from the dog fighter Michael Vick... about as dog aggressive as you can get - these were turned arounda nd rehomed using positive reinforcement!

My thoughts on the mexican, in rhyme :)

Ware the man with gleaming teeth
He earns 'respect' with fists and feet

To justify his kicks, his pins
His smiling face trots out the spin

Mans best friend? A lurking threat!
Pin 'em down, keep 'em checked

Strangle, pinch, jab and poke
The dog will bide or it will choke

Yank 'em, crank 'em, keep 'em down
Another dollar, more renown!

Ware the man with gleaming teeth
He earns 'respect' with fists and feet

Brilliant Pookin!!

> Let's face it, some dogs wouldn't be in the situation they are if they hadn't been treated like babies or left to rule the roost...
>

And some men wouldn't have such deep voices if I was allowed to kick him as hard as I possibly could in the groin.

Well, you asked for thoughts so unlike the others I see no harm in what he is doing.  They are hardly kicks, more of a nudge with his foot! Im sure Ceaser has saved many a dog being put to sleep because he has retrained them.  If you think this is bad then step into the horse world where horses are whipped, spurred, strapped down and forced to do things they don't want to.  Its not all fluffy clouds and cotton wool, if dog owners were more  responsible  over their dogs behavior then these situations wouldn't occur. I very rarely meet a well behaved and socialized dog when out walking, but its not the dogs fault, its the owners!  Twice, our lovely natured lab has been attacked while out on a walk and I can tell you that my husbands size 10 boots to the attacker did the trick nicely!! Good on ya Ceaser, keep up the good work.

> Its not all fluffy clouds and cotton wool, if dog owners were more  responsible  over their dogs behavior then these situations wouldn't occur.

Clap 'em in irons and send them to jail!
Sorry but if that's your idea of "responsible" dog training, I'm very glad I'm not your dog!

>If you think this is bad then step into the horse world where horses are whipped, spurred, strapped down and forced to do things they don't want to.

There's footage of this man doing very similar things to dogs; setting them up to fail then throttling them into unconsciousness or zapping with e-collars. If those kicks are mere gentle nudges then the dogs have previously learned to associate them with very much more painful punishment, because their reactions are not those of a dog that's simply distracted by a nudge.

Ohhhh and by the way Wendy - have you ever wondered how he can control a dog just be going Tssst! at it?
Have you ever tried this on your own dogs?
What did they do?

I guess you didn't know that he pre-conditions this using an electric shock collar.

Some of those examples are nudges and shoves with his foot rather than kicks, but look at the reaction the dogs give to those nudges/shoves...

Now look at the reaction your dog gives if you nudge or even shove with a foot.

The dogs on his show consistantly react out of all proportion to the contact actually made, and that tells me one thing - those dogs have been conditioned to expect a hard kick. They have experienced this movement from Cesar so often when it HAS resulted in a hard, painful kick, that THAT is what they expect.

So yep, when on camera you see him nudge and there is a severe reaction, it does look like he has some sort of magic touch, but its all an illusion. His magic touch comes from him insisting he spends time alone with clients dogs, without the owners present, where he can give the dogs  a good reason to fear him and his movements.

There is a world of difference between putting the boot in to end an attack where your dog is being attacked, and to using it as a training method - the fact that some people use brute force, violence and fear in training horses does NOT justify its use in dogs, it ISNT justified in horses either!

If you think Cesar has saved many dogs from being pts,  you are sadly mistaken. He hasnt, but you wont hear about it because the legal paperwork people on his show have to sign is pretty watertight, people are NOT allowed to discuss what went on.
There was one set of peple who did discuss what went on - their dog reverted back, not just to how he was before Cesars treatment, but worse, within 48 hours.

I could give you heartbreaking case after case of dogs who have had to be rehomed and who have been put down BECAUSE of the methods Cesar advocates - many of these dogs not having had any severe problems at all to start with, just typical undersocialised, undertrained young dogs.

Many of the dogs on his show do not in fact have serious problems, Cesars winds the dogs up on purpose behind the scenes to get them to react the way they do, and then everything is scripted to make things look far far worse than it really is. [Similar things went on behind the scenes of the UK's Dog Borstal too!]

> If you think Cesar has saved many dogs from being pts,  you are sadly mistaken.
>

This is the real truth behind the scenes, unfortunately.

If you think this is bad then step into the horse world where horses are whipped, spurred, strapped down and forced to do things they don't want to.

And people are murdered and children abused -more wrongs doesn't make one wrong right all of a sudden!

Very good post theemx.

If you think Cesar has saved many dogs from being pts,  you are sadly mistaken. He hasnt, but you wont hear about it because the legal paperwork people on his show have to sign is pretty watertight, people are NOT allowed to discuss what went on

on one of his shows they did show a min pin that was pts because cesars methods didnt work. one dog was ok the other pts inspite of his training, bit like victoria stillwell when the cocker was pts

The case I was actually referring to was Cotton, who went on to have all his teeth filed off and was incredibly aggressive after Cesar left.

Whilst I don't doubt that his owners version of 'We tried everything' wasn't quite the truth, the various interviews that can be found online clearly dmonstrate that Cesars methods made Cotton infinitely worse.

No trainer can cure EVERY problem and some dogs are either ill [as it is suspected the Cocker on the Victoria Stilwell show was], or are too far gone for the average family to fix. For those being PTS is generally better than being shipped round rescues/fosters/various homes and putting other people/animals at risk.

Also, Cesar often seems to refer to dogs as 'red zone'. I haven't seen all his shows by any means, but of those I have I don't think I have ever seen a dog that could honestly be described as red zone. 

Ooh, that was quite nasty - I'd seen him push the dogs a few times but hadn't seen it that often or really seen how extreme the dogs' reactions are. Like someone else said, I agree with his 'calm energy' and 'more exercise' messages. And sometimes he has just used his body to block acces for dogs barking at windows - not hands or feet, just putting himself so they can't reach it. But mostly yes, he's far too extreme.

I did once see a programme with a rescue dog from an experimental place though, I thought he was good with that one. He went in backwards and just sat waiting for the dog to get curious, he was calm and non-confrontational, completely different from most of his 'cures'. Did anyone else see that one?

yes i think i saw that one, the dog was in a cage? he sat with his back to the dog and went in backwards

That was the point I was trying to make but obviously my views aren't popular here. My point is I agree with the calm attitude. I see waaaaayyy to many owners who panick when their dog won't repond to them and develop "aggressive" behaviour towards other dog. I own a small light breed who doesn't do well with being jumped on in the park and my dogs tend to panick and run. I'd rather kick the owners but I can't so I must admit to using my feet to stop their dogs from bounding all over my dogs and doing some permanent psychological damage to my own dogs who were minding their own business.
I DEFINITELy have used the "Cesar" kick on rogue dogs let off the leads in public spaces to pretect my pack and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it in the situation.

I'm NOT naive and I do know that the shows he makes are partly set up, I'm under no illusion that what we see on TV is only part of the problem. I'm however quite surprised by some of the stuff I read here and at the fact people are so knowledgeable with what happens "backstage".

I forgot to say thanks for sharing your views - particularly theemx for your sensible reply and Pookin for a great poem. I don't usually tend to be controversial but I do see a point to some of the techniques used by Cesar (I'm thinking of one particular episode where he delt very sensibly with a shitzu who ate everything!)
I will continue to use the calm assertive way with my dogs (I promise you I never kick them!) even though I also use treats to teach new behaviours which I guess compares to the horse whisperers way of dealing with animals but until people take more responsability for their dogs when they walk them off the lead, I will continue to use the "Cesar's" way of dealing with dogs out of control:-)

did anyone see his UK epersodes? i saw 2 and i noticed he only used his 'touch' once and instead was useing body blocking and food, i guess someone warned him that he might not get away with treating dogs like that in the UK.
someone i know of who mum has got a rescue DDB and loves Ceasar, she is having a few problems with him mouthing and biting and is pinning it to the floor, would hate to know what will happen when he becomes too big and strong for her.

> I DEFINITELy have used the "Cesar" kick on rogue dogs let off the leads in public spaces to pretect my pack and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it in the situation

Violence begats violence, physically attacking an animal greatly increases your chances of being attacked by the animal - nomatter why you attacked it.
The 'calm assertive' attitude that can work wonders to keep a panicking dog calm, can also be used to keep another dog at bay. It's amazing how a firm, yet calm & non-confrontational 'NO' can ward off dogs that are being a pain in the butt to your dog.

I can see why you would use a kick to ward of another dog and agree it is most defiantely NOT the same thing that CM does, but it really can be very dangerous.
My OH had his ankles attacked by a JR after kicking towards one when it was pestering our dog (yep, 2 little JRS bullying a Mastiff!), I have warded off the same annoying pair of dogs several times on my own, no physcal threats needed, simply using a firm, but calm attitdue, strong eye-contact (but not prolonged to the point of being challanging) and they are no-longer a problem for us. This way also serves to teach my dog that other dogs do not need to be physically attacked if they are being a pain & therefore he is less likely to feel he has to physically defend himself.

Always try the body blocking first of course but not always enough and particularly not with a dog determined to  get to your dogs :-( but I do agree that hitting a dog might cause it to respond with a bite. Rather be bitten than have my dogs attacked, sorry :-/

The vids been pulled already...tut tut, has he got something to hide ? I'm assuming it's the kicking compilation, I don't get Milan at all, there was one dog that I remember on that vid that was having some sort of stick with a pad on the end shoogled about under it's nose, and he kicked the dog for ignoring it !!..what the hells that all about !? and the Bulldog he picks up and carries by the scruff ! unbelievable...the man's a balloon plain and simple.

> and he kicked the dog for ignoring it !!..what the hells that all about !?

Oh, nothing to concern us.

It's something that people with sadistic tendencies do to get their turn on.

They are hardly kicks, more of a nudge with his foot! Im sure Ceaser has saved many a dog being put to sleep because he has retrained them.

Some are nudges, (clearly pre conditioned - does your own dog shy away when you do the same with your foot? I'd hope not :) ) and some are harder kicks. It was clear he kicked Shadow quite hard in the groin area (and then proceeded to choke him *rolleyes* ) and also some of those dogs' reactions are very sudden - so hardly a simple nudge.

Seeing it in slow motion is really useful, if unpleasant. I know of several dogs pts because of him - made worse due to owners copying the more extreme bits of his training. On US forums, trainers would bemoan that they had to deal with dogs made worse by his methods.

i expect vids were pulled because some sickos actually enjoy watching animals being tortured

Nope - they will be pulled because Cesar is incredibly hot on getting anything thats getting bad press off the web.

If it were the case that Youtube pulls vids because sickos might be enjoying watching them, then why is it full of people feeding live animals to other animals?? Sorry to burst your bubble there... this is all Cesar covering his own back!

you think cesar looks on utube?

Probably not but his little army of press officers do..all the time
Aileen

Im amazed that anyone who watched the footage could --WITH ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION -- can call those 'blocks' or 'little kicks' :-(

He booted some so hard he lifted them off their feet.
AND all carefully filmed from the near side of the dog so as to obscure the fact he kicks in the soft, unprotected side, of the body...the groin!

Be ashamed people..........if you support this action against dogs....... I hope you get your just rewards.

I think he is a vile wee man.  It saddens me that some people think he's wonderful and copy his ways.

now that was harsh... but hey everyone's entitled to their view, I guess.

I was at a Nina Bodarenko seminar last year ( or the year before last ) she recounted the tale of a Rottie puppy who was pts by it's owners when they followed Milan's methods, the puppy went from a puppy chancing his luck ( as they do ) to one that displayed serious aggression, sadly Nina didn't hear about their plight until the wee soul had been pts.

Amazingly I have seen one or two episodes of Milan's where he's got it just about right, the one with the Borebohl springs to mind ( although I'd have liked to have seen him try to pin that chap to the ground ! ) for me, that just makes him all the worse, as he can do things right when he wants too.

Another part of that compilation has just sprung to mind, he kicked a dog when he had those giant skates on !, nasty.

This is one of the most gutting things for me..

IF you believe his 'spin', sure, he had a hard life and little education in Mexico, his opportunities were few and far between.

NOW - he has the money and the ability to access the very best resources out there, to network and grow and learn from the BEST trainers, psychologists, behaviourists in the WORLD.

He COULD be one of the best trainers around, he does have a way with people, he does earn their trust, and he has body language that is very clear to dogs [sadly it is used almost exclusively to bully and dominate and threatening and confront!]....

But he CHOOSES not to, to him as far as I can see, the hype and the brandname techniques are MORE important, basically, the money is more important to him, than the dogs.

I am not naive, we live in a money driven society - but the likes of Ian Dunbar, Victoria Stilwell, Zak George, Nina Bondarenko, Carolyn Menteith [i name these in particular as trainers/behaviourists/psychologists who have had tv/media careers and are thus more mainstream, nto that they are 'better'] find room for both making a living and a career AND the best interests of the dogs.

As for prong collars I was told to use on on my Boston this was at a obedience class- Used a normal collar, choke ect and had no choice. Now I can use a check collar with only sometime use of the prong. Usually we start out with the prong then I can move back to the check... The prong is NOT mean if fitted properly and used properly- the dog corrects its self- no need to do the correction- I even put it on my arm and yanked as hard as I could- does not hurt, I was very leary about it.

I think in pet stores b4 any type of correction collar are sold people should be taught on how to use them. I have seen many dogs with a choke on and tied up outside- come on its a training collar not a flat collar.

I believe with out some of his help alot of these dogs would have been pts or stuck in a pound. I don't see all of what he is doing is wrong- yes it is alot of hype, but I do believe he does really love the animals and in his heart he is doing good- if he saves some from being pts then go for it. Your watching what is on tv- or going by what alot of people say and what you see advertise- maybe if you actually seen him in person deal with the dogs and how the people are b4 and after then decide if he is a bad person or not... Since I do not have the oportunity for that I will just take things with a grain of salt and not decide either way...