Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site and hope that some of you will be able to help me.  I have be looking for a Bichon Frise pup.  I have found a litter at Gwynmardene Kennels in Wales.  I was hoping that someone out there may be able to tell me if they have heard of these kennels.  The chap I spoke to seemed very nice but then you can't see who you are talking to on the telephone.  I also breeds other dogs in total 5 kinds.  He states he has 30 years experience and is happy for you to contact his vet and local county council is this reconmende d as I don't want to bee paying £300.00 plus for a pup from a puppy farm is its not healthy.

Help and advise will be appriecated.

Hi,

I have just put that kennel name into google and it directs you back to Champdogs. put the kennel name into the search at the top of this page and make up your own mind, I am not sure I would touch it with a barge pole!!

I can't think that someone selling that many breeds can be an expert on all of them!!

hope this helps

Lilly

I would presume that they are not KC registered at that price??  I would have thought that Bichon's were more around the £500 mark.

I must admit that I wdn't buy from someone that has more than 2 breeds myself. 

As he seems quite helpful and has advised you of a number of people for references maybe he's OK, though I can't see what the local council would be able to advise you on other than him keeping there living areas clean etc.  They wdn't be able to guarantee the quality of the dogs.

He dose say that they are KC reg, I feel a bit of a fool now as I have sent a cheque of as a deposit for one as it was the only bitch he had left. what should i do

there is another registry called "dog lovers" which basically means nothing! if hes saying they are regd ask if its with the KC. & not just "registered" or pedigrees

Phone the bank quickly and cancel the cheque while you consider it more carefully!

Their website does not mention KC registration and describes the kennels as a 'business' breeding pedigree puppies (  5 of the most popular breeds seem available). The only photograph shows a surprisingly large litter of Bichons in what looks like a dark shed with a sprinkling of sawdust/paper shavings on the floor. ( Could be this number of pups cos they buy in pups from elsewhere to sell on ?)

I would not touch this with a bargepole - phone the Kennel Club for the Bichon breed club secretary , she/he will hold a list of recommended breeders - make sure that anyone you chose will alow you to visit before hand to see for yourself how the pups are being raised and to check out mum's temperament. Be prepared to be grilled by the breeder before being allowed to buy one of her pups and you may well have to wait until the right pup is available. NEVER buy just because it's available quickly - good luck - I know it's frustrating when you really want your pup now but believe me it will be  worthwhile to do this properly - you will have to live with the results for the next 14 years :D.

Yvonne

looking at the website, i wouldnt touch it either.

me neither.  And you're right about talking on the phone - my youngest (21 month rotti X) came from a guy who sounded very nice and responsible on the phone - granted, the litter was an accident, but he was anxious to get a good home for the pups, etc.

Well, not only was Opi *not* a purebred rotti - she's 1/4 GSD, we think - but the mum and pups were being kept in a small horse trailer smack in the middle of that heatwave in August 2003 (you know, 30+C temps), but Opi was very underweight - at 8 weeks she weighed 6lbs, she should've been more like 14lbs - and the guy gave us a carrier bag of dry cat food to feed her, and horse wormers to worm her with.  Oh, and she was £195.  I should've walked away, but I couldn't leave her there.  I'd have had her two brothers if I could as well and probably the mum too!

So do be careful - £300 does sound cheap for a decent Bichon, and the nicest sounding people can be right muppets!

Tai

If you can't get your money back put it down to experience and forget about the loss.  It will be small in comparison to the potential costs associated with what may be a poorly bred puppy.  I have seen pictures

http://www.bichonfriseclubofgb.info/

Phone: 01527 517116/ Fax: 01527 515640

I've just looked at the photo on the web site and don't believe they are from one litter - eight is some size litter for a Bichon.  Although it could be just the photo, the one on the front at the left looks like it has the coat of a completely different dog - certainly doesn't look like that of a Bichon although the photo may be making it look smooth coated. 

Did he explain to you how he managed to socialise his puppies?  If he has eight Bichons at one go and has one or more other litters he must have some stamina.

It is hard when you first start looking for a dog, particularly when they may be hard to come across and I can understand that you may be disappointed but this breeder is undoubtedly not your best option.

Good luck and best Wishes

Andi

Sorry, just read the aftercare too!!!  Shan't comment any further.

Andi

HI tai i bought a bullmastiff two years ago and i think it might be the same place it was in Bala, stupidly i seen the advert in the local paper and i couldnt wait to get her so i phoned up an older fella answered the phone said there was only one left and she was kc reg when we arrived there it was a farm a sheep was dead on the side of there drive anyway i still went ahead the dog had obviously not been socialised she wouldnt even come to us and i fell straight in love with her and took her home she werent kc reg either but dog lovers be so careful in wales so many breeders there are puppy farmers i learnt so much from that experince unfornately tessa died under the anthestetic she had so many problems really you dont wont the last pup as no one else wants it you would be better getting one from a litter where you can see how they all get on together 

i would also stay well away from this pup,
and frank please dont say things like that not all breeders in Wales are money grabbers.  there are puppy farmers all over the UK not just Wales

i hope you find a nice pup for a nice breeder soon

I used to live quite close to Narberth, where these kennels are, and it's bang slap in the middle of 'puppy farm country'.    Several have had these notorious 'diversification' grants from the Welsh Office to breed dogs instead of/alongside their normal farm enterprises.

I believe I know the vets who look after these kennels - they used to be our own vets.   When I was talking to them about it, they (quite rightly) said that it was far better that they had regular visits there rather than abandon the set-up to its own devices.   I suppose you could always say that it was more income for the vets, but that wasn't the way it came over.

And ,yes, we used to live in Wales, and there are most certainly quite a few sound caring breeders there, unfortunate to be living in the same area as  the commercial boys and dealers.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

I wouod also never say the last pup left in a litter is the one no=one wants.  someojne has to be first and someone last that is how it goes, and one persons firts choice would be anothers last.  If I haven't got anyone interested in showing I try to kep teh most promising pup until last in hopes a person who might show turns up.

The Two champions I ahve bred were both last pups left in the litter :D  Both came to showing later as were bought as pets only.

Got to agree Brainless.  To be honest when selling a litter you get rid of the ones you dont like first then gradually whittle down to the ones you dont want to let go off.  I had the last one in the litter with my first dally.  She was the smallest in the litter and no one wanted her.  If I had the choice of the whole litter she would have been my first choice.

Gwynmardene Kennels is a professional, legit business and is not at all a Puppy Farm.

We have a full licence to breed dogs and none of the information in these posts are true.

Please feel free to visit our website.

OK im going to go at this from my point of view... puppy farm or not if I look at a site for a puppy and I cannot see and inspect the pedigree I am immediately put off and normally don't bother with the rest of the site, the breeder should be proud of the dogs in the pedigree as it would have taken a long time to put together and shows the care they put into it. With our litter I annotated the pedigree's with past show or working wins and and log all relevant health tests next to each dog so that potential buyers can google the dogs and see if its what they like.

A friend of mine has a large successful kennel whom is in demand but still only breeds one litter a year, some breeders do have more litters but with several ready at the same time does personally put me off, on another note anyone on here will say if a breeder doesn't do relevant breed specific tests for the parents walk away its really not worth it.

Also when looking to buy a puppy ask the breeders if they do anything outside of breeding with their dogs i.e. work or show, agility or obedience and if they are members of any dog clubs.

Gwynmardene,

Exactly you are a business...........making money by breeding several breeds and cross breeds.

If you are a caring breeder/business person how do you go about socialising the pups when you have so many available at one time, what health checks are in place for your stud dogs and bitches? you don't state they are tested for hereditary disease on your website.

websites always look sparkly and proffessional.

Hello Tai, a search on Google shows that Gwynmardene have been on Champdogs before (2004):

Gwynmardene & Wellwood are the affixes of large scale commercial breeders who just happen to operate out of Wales (though of course this sort of commercial activity is not confined to Wales) Neither breeder is a member of any Cocker Spaniel breed club & neither breeder carries out any of the recommended health-screening tests in Cockers eg eye-testing for PRA (Cockers from these lines owned by other people have however been eye-tested & found to be afflicted with PRA) This is all factual information which can be gleaned from publicly available records like the KC Breed Record Supplements.

This thread is 6 years old and the most recent post has arrived in the form of an 'advert' for their own kennels!

thanks dogs a babe, I will definitely remember to check dates next time!!!!! :O

Looking at the website (complete with typos - not professional!) I see the typical comercial breeder. Several different breeds, cross-breeding, no health tests claimed, let alone published, and no evidence that any of the breeding animals have been independently assessed; no show results, no working test results, not even any photos of the kennels, or of the sires and dams with the puppies!

In other words, premises churning out random puppies purely for money. Bad, bad, bad.

Oh well done dogs a babe ... darned good job someone's on the ball 'cause the rest of us obviously aren't!! :-)

I wasn't impressed either, looks like a collection of pet pics put together with little to no info about the pups or the breeds.

With so much emphasis these days on breed specific health tests there needs to be more info especially when there are so many breeds involved.

Hopefully they will take on board the comments here and update the site.

puppy farm or not if I look at a site for a puppy and I cannot see and inspect the pedigree I am immediately put off and normally don't bother with the rest of the site

Triona (saying this as an aside, know nothing about the site in question or the people) most responsible breeders will NOT put their dogs' pedigrees on their own websites as puppy farmers have been known to copy the info to make up pedigrees that appear legit.

Many breeders I know including myself do put up our pedigrees, the info is pretty much in the public domain and whatever Puppy farmers do with fake peds they mean nothing without the KC paperwork to back them up.

> most responsible breeders will NOT put their dogs' pedigrees on their own websites

You actually have to fill in the pedigree if you want to advertise on Champdogs breeders page!

Also as a potential puppy buyer, I always look carefully at the pedigree as the ancestors tell me a lot about the type, health test status etc of the parents. In popular breeds you may not have that knowledge at your fingertips as there are likely to be a lot of litters at any one time. So the pedigrees are useful - well they would be to me.