ok , ok , its been a long time since my last pup...and im having trouble remembering!
Everything seems to be going well at the moment , she wee's on paper and outside ( just a few accidents) she settles at night well , and we've got her used to being put in her room an hour a day.She's ok on the lead~but we'll commence proper training after second jab,and she sits and gives paw on command.
However.......
She is ~ as all pups are~ very "frisky" in that she allways wants to play~all expected~ but we are having trouble teaching her the no hands/no biteing.Im doing the usual~NO! when she tries , pushing her away etc... i guess all im asking is for reassurance that this will pass!! that im just to persevere!
I was ok , till the father in law popped in for his yearly visit yesterday and commented how he'd never know a god play bite at this age ( 10 weeks!!!) i told him she was JUST a baby and defended her...but reasure me people!nothing i need more right now !!

Morning Zoe --It is normal and they all do it ( sorry I've forgot what you got !!(slap on the wrist ) but it's quite a big pup isn't it ?? )
Father in laws are the worlds worst -ours hisses at the dog and then complains when he jumps :rolleyes:
We grab his snout and give a firm NO and walk away --Don't worry :)
Liz

We grab his snout and give a firm NO and walk away

What Murphys, or you FILs????? :D :D :D

Fiona
x x x

Zoe

It's perfectly normal and if you keep saying no she'll get the hang of what she's supposed to do, or not do in this case :)

Fiona
x x x

thank's guys.She's in a particularly bad mood today ~ she's done nothing but bark and jump at all morning! i feel guilty taking a firm tone with her because i know she just thinks she's playing! but she scared the two little'uns this morning ( 3 and 5) cos all she is doing is grabbing at them when she passes.If i say NO! she barks and leaps at me ! little maddam! i can cope knowing the light is at the end of the tunnell ... allbeit the tunnel's miles long!!
She's a Newfoundland which is why im keeping strong and HAVING to remain strict!

Ours was a right little terror sometimes -she would have a minute of what seemed, uncontrollable biting. It was usually when she had been playing and got over excited. This phase only lasted a couple of weeks. Just be firm and let her know that you don't like it. Now at 8 months, ours is lovely and only occassionally gives a gentle chew :)

Daisy

FIL -doesn't bite anymore :D
Liz
Zoe -I went and had a look sorry now I remember she's a Newf It's hard going but it will come --stay strong :)

Hi Zoe, it is normal they all do it. but you do need to teach her it is not ok to mouth at humans. With Some pups a sharp 'no' is all that is needed. I use the 'ouch' with mine, whereby when they mouth you, you yelp/shout (like a pup would when playing with the litter) and stop the game. With my kids being 5 and 8 I have taught them that they shout 'no' loudly (their voices are high anyway) and turn away with their arms folded, ending the game and ignoring the pup. It worked for us. The boys know that if any of the dogs get too boisterous during a game, or even if they are running around and one of them runs after them too much, they stand still, shout 'no' and fold their arms and then ignore the dog.
Obviously now my dogs are older, the boys tell them to sit, or down if they are being pestered. The puppy mouthing stage didn't last long, and when the pups were teething we also redirected mouths to nylabone chews! HTH Julie:)

Hi - I'm new and not entirely sure about how this works - anyway, we've got our first pup (Old English Sheepdog) and are having the same problem - the more we say no - the more excited and bitey he gets - we've tried grabbing the mouth - it's not easy and he pulls away and bites again, it's only play but it hurts and we really want him to stop!! We've also tried shutting him in his room for 5 minutes and letting him back in, sometimes it works but it's very hit and miss!!

Hi Jaqui
we found the 'no' had to be deep-not squeaky and as Julie said fold your arms and walk away. It does take time .
One big NO is better than 10 no no no no's if you see what I mean ;)
Liz

That's what he gets - but as you walk away - he follows and jumps up and down pulling at your clothes, even though we're completely ignoring him!! The more you ignore him, the more he desparately tries to get attention!!

Then I would hold his collar stare at him tell him NO and move away again --how old is he ??can you put him into a sit ??

Thanks Steve - I've tried the stare too, but that only makes him jump at your face - it's only excitment bless him, I know he doesn't mean it - he's just 10 weeks old - at 8 weeks he was an angel!! We've only just started teaching him to sit - very early stages of sit at the moment!!

It'still early days then --keep going
Ps It's Liz ( I know it says steve ,vvconfusing :D )
Best wishes
Liz :)

Thanks Liz - I'm easily confused!!!

Jacqui, I don't know if this will help you or not, I start to train my pups from very young, not everyone agrees with this, but I try to teach sit and down early on. with my springer Decoy, he was very jumpy uppy, although not that mouthy. I taught him down at nine weeks, (that's not boasting, don't get me wrong it was just easier than having him jumping up) and I wonder if it will help you, if you have shouted no, turned away and he is chasing after you, perhaps you could try to still teach the 'Teeth off' - no mouthing 'no', but then a down. so if he was nipping you would tell him off, 'No' and then tell him down and he lies down (in theory:D) The method I use to teach down is:-

Tasty treat in hand - put against dogs nose letting him smell treat, then you bring the treat down ,with nose still sniffing, on to the floor and draw it along the floor slightly infront of dog, the dog should follow the treat down and slide forward into a down, pushing him gently into a down position, hands on his shoulders and if need be push his bottom flat too , you say the command down as you are doing this, and with the treat on the floor, still in your hand infront of the dog, you can apply slight pressure on the top of the shoulders, still, when he is down, (as this is the only time he is in this position ie flat to the ground, the pressure makes it clearer to him what you are asking) and then always give treat and praise while he is still down, 'I validate what I have asked them to do, ie 'thats a good down', so they know what they have done right - instead of 'good boy', cos then they aren't sure what they have been good for, eating the treat? sniffing you hand? ) to make them stay down a bit longer I use a few treats and keep giving them as they are still lying down. I don't know if this will help you, with Decoy, if he jumped up we told him down and he dropped down, so it worked for that, it should work with him chasing after you, if only to distract him from the immediate activity of chasing you. if nothing else - you will have a good down command early on :D. If this is no use to you feel free to ignore me, It just I have found that approaching some problems from a different angle often have good results. I'm sure others will have different good advice for you. I would be interested to know, if it helps you at all, or if you can make sense of my garbled instructions, it is quite hard to convey what you mean in words, without being able to demonstrate on a dog!:D Julie:)

Thanks Julie - he does seem to understand down - I don't know if it's instinct being a sheepdog - but doesn't stay there - I'll try the treat method - thank you!

Hi , at puppy class, there were certain pups that were persistant mouthers, and with some, the Yelp seemed to trigger them to do it more, they would stop at first and then the look of 'oh, I made that human thing make a funny noise, how interesting!' came over their face! and would nip even more. It does depend on the nature of your particular pup IMO. with pups like this, I agree you need to be 'bigger' with them, as in deeper and firmer like liz. I know with some pups that a tap on the nose makes them snap back even quicker! horses for courses! Zoe, all puppies do it, its like babies putting everything in their mouths, they can't grab you with their hands so use their teeth, but those puppy teeth are like bloomin needles! Julie:)

thanks.
Even though we've been there before , its suprising how quickly you forget!
She also was an angel at 8 and 9 weeks....but has hit the dreaded 10 !!
everything that moves is fair game to Cru'Ella !

I love that name for your Newf', Zoe :D

THANKS ! she has those MAD eyes that Cruella has !

Puppies do respond in different ways, it may depend on the breed/mixture, or on the individual. A very sensitive pup may well respond to a "Ouch" but IME most do get great excitememtn out of this and see mum and dad as the great new Squeaky Toy to Play With :D .

People here have various ways to stop this; I favour the gradual approach to stopping because I then feel the pup has learnt to control his mouth and understands he can hurt.

My Terv was known as the "Mad Bitey Puppy" and got wildly excited with the Ouch, was so reactive that she immediately started to come back with more nipping and herding reactions when my other half used anything remotely like a stern response. It all just excited her.

The only thing that worked was to use a combination of: End Game immediately, (if she nipped whilst playing) and also eiither Pup Out or Person Out, for a few minutes, depending on where we were and what was happening at the time.This was done calmly at all times. It took a few weeks but worked well, and I feel is based on what a pup understands. After all in litters, a pup mau well squeak and yelp, but IMHO the most significant thing they do is to end the game and/or the interractions until nippy pup behaves more gently :)

It will get better though ;)

LIndsay

Jaqui , i would love to see pictures of your pup if you have any?
my email is
zoeandsaul@ntlworld.com

Hi Zoe - unfortunately I have nothing more spectacular than an old style camera and have to scan photos in - our scanners not up to much either - as soon as I manage to get some decent ones I will e-mail you with them!!

thanks Jaqui , i cant remember seeing an Old English sd pup for ages~and they are sooo cute !!

I am biased - he's so cute!! There are some pictures of him from the breeder on www.arthrug.freeserve.co.uk - he's "Victor" the cheekiest looking one!!

What a cutiepie he is! :)

Hi Jacqui,
We too have an OES puppy...he is 11weeks . We have done all the suggestions here to no avail. I by chance had an empty plastic water bottle in my hand one day when he was doing his... I am going to get you routine...I squeezed it and he didn't like the noise and stopped his bite playing quickly. I have since taken a empty bottle and filled it half way with small pebbles and when he starts the mouthing and grabbing anything that he can, I shake the bottle. All he has to do now is see it and he stops. The incidents are very few and far between now. Is this your first ever OES? You will love him. I will check out you pics...nothing better than a sheepie puppy picture.
Jenny

Hi Jenny - yes he's not just my first OES he's my first dog. It's always been my dream to have an OES and it's finally been fulfilled and we do love him - he's wonderful!!! Plastic bottles - unfortunately he loves those - he rolls them around on the floor all happy!!! In a puppy book I've got they mention using water pistols and shooting water mixed with vinegar at them - I'm not sure about that!!

I just saw his pictures..what a beauty! We have the new pup Oakley and Harley a 5 year old rescue OES
and Lolli and mixed breed rescue. Sorry about the plastic bottle suggestion...Lolli loves them too...
I guess you'll have to try a bunch of things and see what works best for you.I did find out the hard way though(holes in my jeans from puppy needle teeth) that turning your back on him didn't work at all. He thought that was just another part of the game!! Have not tried the water pistol thing...not sure about vinagar.I don't think I'd try that myself.
It's nice to meet another sheepdog person ...I usually just lurk on the board and read everybody's suggestions ..but had to post when I saw a sheepie person on here.

It's good to meet you too - both myself and my other half had ALWAYS wanted an OES and now our dream has been fulfilled, I think they're wonderful dogs!! I'm beginning to think nothing works with our youngster he thinks everything's one big game - he always has a great big smile too!!!

We wondered why we got a pup ....It had been a few years since we had a puppy 'train' us. We have noticed a big difference since he was neutered. Just when you think they will never come around ...bingo.. he is an angel. Oakley smiles all the time....sometimes I think he's really laughing at us.My partner and I are getting a fence put in.The utility companys had to put little flags up to mark the line for the fence installers. Oakley has seen fit to bring them all to the back door. I guess I'll be outside today finding tiny holes in the ground to put the flags back where they belong....big fun for Oak.!!

Sounds like a great game for him - I'm sure he feels he's helping!!!

Yes ..I think he is protesting the fence!
I am not sure how to change the e-mail thing so here is my address and maybe we can compare notes on our progress with the babys. redboat@citlink.net Now I have to go and walk the dogs . I have enjoyed talking to you. Take care and watch those teeth!

We have used the drink-can filled with gravel with our older dog to stop him barking at people. Worked brilliantly - now we just say to him 'Where is that tin ? ' and he stops. Doesn't work at all with the puppy !! You just have to try it to see if your dog will respond to it.

Daisy

Hi Daisy,
Never thought of the tin can...that would be an even sharper noise .I'll keep that in mind for future use. I learn something new everyday!!

We got the tip from our training club. It seems to work brilliantly with some dogs and not at all with others :) My older is rather nervous and so finds the noise horrible - some dogs love the noise and will just play with the can :)

Daisy

We are in the same boat with our pup Zoe. He's 10 weeks old now and loves to playbite - sometimes it hurts too . Now and again he will respond when told "NO" but in his more friskier moments he doesnt take a blind bit of notice . We are working on it but other poeple always think they know best by saying how they wouldnt allow a pup of theirs to bite , how he should be out of it by now etc etc .Sometimes makes you feel like an amateur .Its 14 years since we last had a pup in the house and I too have forgotton how long it goes on for ( and how sharp those teeth can be ) . I too, put it down to normal pup behaviour - obviously if he was alot older i would be more concerned . I will try some of the ideas mentioned in the mails here .
Let me know how he goes .
Are you the Zoe with the cats as well ? ( mentioned in an earlier mail) - if so how are they all getting on ???
Lel

i am the Zoe with the cats.3 of~and all still disgusted at Ella!! Trigger did seem to be coming round~but now they have spent the last week or so living on the doorstep or upstairs.DelBoy is so scared that he now "lives" upsatairs !which isnt so good as he also Poo's upstairs~so,kid poo cat poo and dog poo......lovely!
Boycie is getting more fed up though , hes allways been the type of cat to get food anywhere its offered,and regularly visits my neighbour,I had thought that Cru'ella might be the last straw that made him leave home,but instead he hasnt left once! its like he's curious,or might miss something if he leaves.
Trigger is brave enough to act as normal,but when he does so Cru'ella gets too excited and frightens him a little,provoking the odd hiss and swipe.
She is now bored and thinks that they are bad sports as none of the three will let her chase them!!
Jaqui,
I alas , cannot use the water squirting tactic as Newf's love water in any form , and she just thinks im being incredibly thoughtfull and rewarding her in the nicest possible way!

Hi Zoe,
our cat has been so good and tolerant of pup . He has had one raised paw and thats it . I think shes more bemused now at what pup is going to do next . He is getting so cheeky tho. He is barking at her and runs at her ( but not too close - hes not that brave yet ) :)
Cat is now at the stage where she will follow him to see what hes up to -especially as we have to keep telling him off for trying to eat her dinner . If he wanders off into another room , she jumps up after him and follows him out , then just sits there watching him . More bemused or curious I think .
Fingers crossed all will be ok between them ;) .
Lel