I tried raw feeding about 18 months ago but found it really hard with no room for a large freezer and trying to keep it balanced.  The dogs were in tip top condition and I had many comments on them.  I also compete in agility and struggled with feeding raw at shows.  So I am thinking along the lines of trying to feed raw during the week and maybe just feeding a wet food when we are away at shows.

Anyway I can't do large orders of food and I don't want to have to think about whether it is all balanced or not - yes I am lazy about that I admit it.

Anyway is this any good http://www.berriewoodwholesale.co.uk/det/2352/Barfers-Complete-Frozen-Raw-Chicken-Veg-or-Lamb-Veg-3-Cases-of-6x1Kg-Multi-buy-Deal-only-12-89-per-box-FREE-DELIVERY-ON-YOUR-ENTIRE-ORDER/

on the face of it it appears to have everything that my dogs would need.  They are BCs by the way.  I do already feed raw chicken wings at least once a week, tinned fish at least once a week and recently have been buying pork racks of ribs and they have been having that split between them for a Saturday night meal.

I feed raw but do feed the odd meal of kibble now and again so if I go away to an agility competition I would take some raw food to start off with and then switch to kibble once the raw has been used up. The balancing of the raw diet is not so hard once you have got your head around it - I balance the diet over the course of three weeks to a month and have been feeding raw for 5 years now. My dog is in great condition and my vet always comments on how good he looks.

That food sounds quite expensive to me. I usually pay around £12 for 20lbs of meat give or take a bit depending on the variety. I now have a chest freezer just for the dogs but had very limited freezer space when I first started out feeding a raw diet. I managed to find someone in my area - via a raw feeding forum - who was willing to share an order with me so that we could meet the minimum order requirement without having so much meat I couldn't store it.

That Barfers looks interesting Claire.If you order it I'd be interested in what you think of it.I've just ordered some Rawtogo which works out quite a bit cheaper even with the delivery charge but I was still going to feed Natural Instinct to little Eko-the Barfers look like a possible cheaper alternative to Natural Instinct and as its freeflow would be more convenient.

Just   athought to make iot easier frok day to day insead of barf raw feeding research raw meaty bones. I feed rmb the difference being it is just that all raw meat you dont add things at all.
So a weeks meal would be different types of meat offal both muscle meat and bones and also fish. As for when you are away I havent had the problem but someone suggested a tin of chappie here and there is whatthey use and the dogs do fine on it.
Not know how much you would feed a day I dont know if you would still have storage problems though

I dont want to have to think about balancing meals over 3-4 weeks though.  I want to know that what I am giving my dogs is balanced full stop.  I did look at natural instinct as there are a couple of dogs that I know who are fed on it and are at the top of their game and look amazing on it but it comes down to cost.  Feeding three fully grown BCs on that would be too expensive for my pocket. 

Also I dont have independent butchers around here that are willing to give carcasses or bones.  I just dont have the storage to even split a large order with someone having only a very small four door freezer and just two further drawers in our fridge/freezer. 

Is there someone local to you who could store the food? I've got enough space that I can do that for a friend of mine on here, so it does make it cheaper for her too once I get the order in on time ;-0

rmb is just that balanced all the time you dont plan it any more than you do your own food. However you would still have a storage problem with the amounts you would need to store for 3 BC I feed approx 1kg per day so you would need some space somehow or shopping would become a chore. SJ idea may be useful

Aw Helen just looked on Rawtogo - thats looks ideal for me.  All complete and a decent variation and yes the delivery is quite high but the mince is so much cheaper than natural instinct or the barfers.  I reckon I would need about 3 packs a day give or take a bit and that work out about £45 per month plus delivery - which works out pretty much what I am spending now on dog food.  Might order their sample pack and see how we get on.

Just looked at the Rawto go (but I can get similar locally with no delivery charge, so no good to me) - how does it come frozen by Royal Mail ??? Is it in insulated containers ??? I used to buy from Berriewoods but that came by van so was still properly frozen. Knowing how bad Royal Mail deliveries can be here (they can't find our address sometimes !), I'd be worried that the meat would defrost by the time it arrived :) :) :)

Yes, it comes in an insulation box. Mine arrived fine and still frozen, eventhough the insulation box was damaged in transit.

Thanks :) That's useful to know :)

I would have it delivered to me work anyway as I go home at lunchtimes and only live 3 miles away from work so easy to nip home to make sure it doesn't defrost.

Have spoken to Lesley from rawtogo this morning via email and she has been absolutely brilliant. So far so good.....

with raw feeding you dont have to worry about balance every day, I feed two 30kg setters and a 20kg Kelpie on it. I have an under the counter freezer in my shed which I fill with mince from landywoods every month (about £36 worth) then weekly I buy a bag of chicken caracasses from the butcher for £2 and some free bits of pig from the farm shop, they also have a tin of sardines each once a week.  When im in sainsburys or morrisons I pick up any liver or kidneys that are on offer. Daily my dogs have a meal of mince and a meal of bones, some days they have two meals of mince and a few times a week I blend some liver or kidneys and mix it with their mince.  Im not anal about it and to be honest it doesnt require a lot of thought .... im mum to a toddler and run my own business so time to think is rare !!  All my dogs are looking really good, they have all gained some much needed weight and their behaviour has changed, my mum noticed it when she looked after them, they appear to be much more content :)

With regards to agility shows, I imagine a weekend show would be quite simple, put all the stuff frozen into a cooler bag and it should stay frozen for a day then it will still be fresh by Sunday morning.  Longer shows than that I wonder whether one of the polystyrene boxes that they deliver foods in would work, a company I spoke to (natural instinct I think) said that the food stays completely frozen for 3 days in one of those) I know at dogs in need the other year every couple of days we did a sainsburys run for chicken pieces and mince.

Ooh I like the sound of this rawtogo, will check out their website. Is it balanced in itself or still something you need to add mixer to? Just tried to get the Prize Choice online breeders option which would have been much cheaper than PAH, but you need £60 worth and they only deliver on a Friday which is no good alas. Like the op I haven't got time / energy / knowledge for balancing over time, I want a meal which is always balanced.

Well I think I am gonna try this rawtogo - Lesley was soo nice and so knowledgeable as well.

You dont need to add mixer at all - it is completely balanced.  Check out their website which is easy to find your way around.

RawToGo mixes each bag of mince with 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal, hence why it's balanced. Jesse is on it now (turkey and venison) and is doing well.

I've looked at the RawToGo Website, because I wanted to find pig pancreas. But looking at the delivery prices I decided to try else where!

Food looks ok, but with 6 dogs (3 of which are 50kg+) I couldn't afford their prices, for what looks pretty much the same as TDFC.

OK I'm going to take the plunge and get the sample pack! It looks a bit more obviously 'raw food' than PC which hubby might get sniffy about though.....

Oh well, they advised just to get a load of the same flavour to start with, but as so many have advised me to keep the variety for fussy Hetty I will stick with Prize Choice for now, it's not expensive when each little pack lasts her 2.5 meals. Just not sure whether Shapes biscuits are ok for mixer, they do say complementary food on the bag but I am scared to add mixer in case she thinks it's kibble and stops eating again. :-)

yes they advised the same for me as well but I have taken the plunge and ordered a variety of chicken, turkey and lamb to start off with.  Have ordered 40 packs which should last me about 3 weeks on the basis that that two meals a week will be tinned fish or chicken wings - only come out as just under £30 with the delivery charge included - this is cheaper than what I am paying at the moment for food by about £15 which cant be bad. 

I have also ordered Tom Lonsdale's book as well just to read a bit more into it.

Does anyone add supplements - a friend adds brewers yeast and garlic to stop fleas.  I like to add salmon oil anyway plus the older ones are on joint aid as well.

RTG, wow very expensive.... Had a peek and thought over and above anything i've seen before and then their delivery prices are crazy!!!!

Have a look at natural instinct which is loads more expensive thatn rawtogo but for someone like me who doesnt have the storage space and wants someone else to sort the balancing act it is ideal plus it will still be saving me about £20 a month on dog food.

complementary food

Any treat is considered complementary food! I wouldn't feed shapes as part of a meal, they are treats.

Vera

Well that's what I wondered but I just have this feeling that if I try to mix the meat with mixer biscuit she will decide it's like kibble and refuse to eat altogether, that's what she did when I tried to mix the kibble with mince in the past. I do give some meals that are Butchers Choice which she will eat, so hopefully it's not too unbalanced a diet!

Oh well, they advised just to get a load of the same flavour to start with, but as so many have advised me to keep the variety for fussy Hetty I will stick with Prize Choice for now, it's not expensive when each little pack lasts her 2.5 meals.

Which little packs are you feeding Hetty..?? Is it the Natures Menu nuggets..?? Or the 454g blocks of mince..?? Some of mine can spot a kibble at 10 paces....and could pick one out from a whole bowl of mince....and spit it out :)

If she's enjoying her Raw food so much now...(huge congrats by the way...its such a pleasure to watch them isn't it....when you have had a dog that won't eat..?) you could try her with a Raw chicken wing on the quiet when hubby's not around....just to see if she likes them as well..?? :)

If you could add a Raw Meaty Bone of some description...then you would be well on the way to knowing she's getting all that she needs :)

>I wouldn't feed shapes as part of a meal, they are treats.

If feeding any treats you need to reduce the size of the meals to compensate; that's why so many dogs are porkers nowadays.

I only wish JG - my girl's still pretty skinny, though not nearly as bad as she was a month ago.

It's the 400g of Prize Choice frozen meals. I just don't trust her to ignore it if I add mixer, she does tuck in and eat it, but she's still not particularly quick about it, so I'm scared to add anything to make it less appetising. Hopefully sticking in a Butchers Choice meal every 3 or 4 meal will keep it from being too unbalanced.

Have you tried her with the 1Kg bags of frozen nuggets..??  You can just dish out a few of them and put the rest back in the freezer and then give her some from a different bag the next day.....they have lots of different raw ingredients to keep her interested...so if you were worrying about say getting liver or lamb or veg into her diet...theres enough variety in the range....to cover all of those things...

Available from the Prizechoice website under the Nature's Menu brand name...but I've also seen them in the freezers at Retail outlets

http://naturesmenu.co.uk/products/Frozen_Nuggets/Frozen_Nuggets/

PAH tend to do the nuggests as well plus they do the complete frozen blocks that they do a boxes of 12 mixed flavours from what I remember.

Well my order from rawtogo arrived today - very nicely packaged and arrived at 8.30am so service is fantastic so far so good.

LucyDogs - Why do you want to add a mixer to the raw? If it's causing problems, why not just stop feeding mixer/kibble?

I'm not feeding mixer or kibble, but I presumably need something to go with the raw meat, unless just giving her a complete puppy meal every 3rd or 4th meal is good enough. I've seen the 2kg bags of frozen meat, not sure whether hubby would go for me buying several different packs of those and hogging even more room in the freezer, haha!

> but I presumably need something to go with the raw meat,

Not necessary; most raw feeders never add anything  

>unless just giving her a complete puppy meal every 3rd or 4th meal is good enough

Perfectly fine but she'd probably be ok without it too.  Remember that you are aiming to give your girl lots of variety

I just don't trust her to ignore it if I add mixer, she does tuck in and eat it, but she's still not particularly quick about it, so I'm scared to add anything to make it less appetising.

Sorry, I read it as you wanted to add mixer, but was affraid it would put her off?

but I presumably need something to go with the raw meat,

No, I don't. Just a good varriety of meats, bones and offal. ...And some crunchy veg now and then. :)

hogging even more room in the freezer,

Oh, I be it won't be long! Our entire chest freezer is taken up with dog food! There is a tiny section at the side for human food, but with 6 dogs a monthly order takes up a lot if space!

But I'm not really a raw feeder as I don't know exactly what's in this stuff, I just feed it because she eats it, is the Prize Choice range complete in itself then? I might look at a few other options at Crufts to make sure she is getting enough variety, she's still not exactly diving in most of the time. Except yesterday when she cleaned her Butchers like lightning, ate the evening PC at normal speed, then ignored the Butchers this morning. *sigh*

is the Prize Choice range complete in itself then?

Umm, is it the free flow mince? It will say what's in it on the bag, but I believe most are just meat?

If so, it's complete as in it can be feed alone for one meal (no need to add mixer), but it couldn't be fed alone every meal if that's all she has, if that makes sense? She'd need bones, a variety of offal and muscle meats, too, if she were on a raw only diet. But if you are feeding 50/50 dry/raw then yes you could feed a PC meal with nothing added to it, as she will be getting enough from the dry.

Have you tried raw tripe?

It's the little 400g bricks of 'dinners', so am pretty sure it's just meat. There is a tripe meal which she does like a lot so I'll give her more of that one then. I'm sort of feeding 2 or 3 PC meals and then 1 Butchers Choice complete puppy tray (she won't eat the tinned variety). Can't feed bones / offal etc unless heavily disguised as hubby doesn't approve of raw and it's only because these have the brand name covering most of the packet and a lot of frosting due to being frozen making it hard to see at a glance what's inside that I am getting away with this. :-p She won't eat dry at all, I've tried several brands. Can't say I blame her, I've always been surprised my other dogs are perfectly happy with kibble!

I'd of thought the frozen nuggets that FreedomOfSpirit suggested would be a good choice for the fussy madam. They will be "complete" so you won't need to feed biscuits, they should be fed as is. Some do contain rice but as you aren't fussed about feeding grains as such they would be OK. They also do some of the varieties in blocks which would be an alternative (http://naturesmenu.co.uk/products/Frozen_Complete_Blocks/Frozen_Complete_Bocks/)

Sorry - can't remember what you have tried :) What about tinned pilchards (not in brine tho') ??

I'm not a huge fan of the comercially prepared raw diets myself, but I agree the nuggets would be a good option for you. I don't really see why you couldn't do the same with PC though, as she's having butchers as well. To me it sounds like she wants to be a raw fed dog, and who can blame her!

hubby doesn't approve of raw
What if she stops eating the butchers? What will he think is the best option then? :(

She turned her nose up at the fresh Natures Menu trays, wouldn't even try them, so I am a bit wary of them, but as I have found since then that PC is made by the same people it wouldn't hurt to try it. I'll pick some up on my next trip to PAH...

Yes tried pilchards in tomato sauce, she wouldn't touch them.

If hubby gets sniffy about feeding raw and / or she goes off the Butchers, he can jolly well try and find something she'll eat!! :-D

Try the nuggets,they are raw meat with some veggies [and in some cases, rice].

Add to her range of meats the occasional offal - some of the prize choice blocks include some offal, soem raw meaty bones etc and you will be feeding a good diet.

The idea is to achieve balance over time,  NOT in each mouthful. If you come across something she actually doesnt like it is no big deal, you just avoid it in future - it isnt going to be teh same as adding something to a food she does like, and finding it puts her off as you can just feed different hings at different meals.

My dogs eat this way and have done for years, they are not fussy. I have also changed fussy dogs over from complete diets [and soem VERY weird and wonderful ideas invented by previous owners too, one dog was eating boiled chicken, Hills Sensitive, JWB and Bakers, all in the same meal and the owner commented id need to leave her bowl downso she could have two goes at it a she never ate it all in one go.]

No bleddy wonder, she was being massively over fed/over faced with the quantity of food. For a fortnight she wasnt sure on the new foods and picked a bit but very rapidly here, she learned to eat what was offered and do so promptly, seh lost the weight she didnt need and is now lean and fit and enjoys a variety of foods with enthusiasm [where previously she didnt look forwards to meals at all!].

Yes, I've looked at those nuggets on the website and they look good, I shall hope that they do them at PAH and pop in tonight or tomorrow. She's definitely not overfed, she was very ribby a month or two back but I have managed with her eating the PC managed to get her just looking slim instead of starved, I don't want her to go backwards now. Tonight I think I'll feed her in the same room as my slightly less greedy of my 2 adult dogs and see if the threat to her food makes her speed up. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! :-p

Well my horrible little madam turned her nose up at the nuggets, shame as they looked great to me and I stupidly bought 2 different flavours so she will have to eat some of it or it's such a waste of money! She did finish her bowl eventually when threatened with one of my adults who wanted to go and eat it. Also bought a PAH own brand tin which we will try tonight, mostly because it was the only one we haven't tried that you can buy a single tin of instead of a 12 pack. She also ate the Bakers complete 2 in 1 gravy meal last night, slowly but steadily, again with the adult dog mooching around looking hopefully at her bowl.