I'm getting my knickers in a twist about using an overseas sire.

The sire I plan to use will be in the UK at the time, on loan to someone here.  I'm not sure what happens in this instance? 

Who signs the 'Sire Owners Signatures' bit?  The person he is on loan with, or the actual owners?  If the actual owners, they will be back in the country of origin.  Do I have to post the litter reg form to them and get them to post it back??  (Just feel a bit anxious taking a dog to be mated and not getting something signed at the same time.)

Also, the KC Litter Reg form says:

"If the sire is registered with an overseas Kennel Club, and resident in the same country, in order for the sire to be recorded, the application must be accompanied with a copy of the 3 generation certified pedigree issued by the overseas Kennel Club confirming the registered ownership of the sire - £20"

Now, I have 2 pieces of paperwork from the stud dog owner which might fulfil this...  But they each fulfil different parts of it:  I have a 4 generation export certificate - but it does *not* have the current owners' name and address details on it, because it was the export cert from his country of origin.  And I also have the "registration form" from his current owners, which has their name and address and all the dog's details and reg number - but this form only lists his mother and father and isn't a pedigree.  Do you think the combination of these 2 pieces of paperwork will be sufficient (it is obviously the same dog, as his chip number is recorded on both documents), or do you think the KC will want to see a pedigree *with* current owner's details on it?  If so, I think I will have to go back to stud owners and ask them to go back to their KC... 

Phew.  Thanks!  I am going to phone them tomorrow but sitting here feeling anxious about it all.

I think I have just found the answer to the second question - I think it is ok, as I checked the KC website re importing a dog and it states:

"If the Export Pedigree or the 3 Generation Pedigree do not show the current registered owner, a copy of the Owner Registration Certificate issued by the overseas Kennel Club, showing the current owner, needs to be submitted as well."

So I think I'm ok, right?  As I have the export pedigree and the owner reg certificate showing the current owner....

Still not sure who signs the form though.

If he is simply on loan here but not registered in the UK or an ATC dog then it is his registered owner that signs the form and the other stuff needs to be sumitted from the country he is registered with.

If the dog has been loaned here and 'imported' and transfered and registered into UK ownership and address, then it is whoever is his registered owner or owners (all must sign), and he counts as a UK dog which has been imported and you don't need to send in his pedigree etc or pay the additional £20.

I'm no expert, but I would think that if the whole reason for him to be in the UK is to be shown and/or used at stud, then everything Brainless has said will stand and he will have had all necessary registration done ready for that purpose.

Thanks...  I guess I need to check with the person he will be staying with re who signs the form, but I think I should maybe wait and sit on my hands a bit... I am so keen I don't want to pester people!

If it IS his registered owners who sign the form, should I send them the form to sign before I take my bitch for mating - say, when she comes into season - or should I wait till afterwards do you think?  (I know from their perspective they would probably prefer afterwards - from my perspective I'd prefer before!).

I'm not sure about the stud fee either, if I'm going to pay it to the person he's staying with or to the owner.  I did ask about that, but they haven't replied in their email back, so I think maybe some things are still being worked out.

The form confirms the date of mating so has to be done after, and by the registered owner or owners.

Ok, thanks.

I had a dog on loan here from Europe. The owner signed the litter registration form in advance. The dog has an ATC number. I wasn't able to register the litter online because the dog was foreign.

Hi Wolf - That is v helpful, that the owner signed the form in advance.  I guess I could at least ask them if they would do that....

I find it a pain that we have to do all of this.  I was going to bring in a bitch just to have her litter over here and pups stay in this country and mother to go back but it's not that blooming simple.  Seems a long winded way if the dogs are not going to be living in this country as such, especially when Spain take so long to blooming process any paperwork.

Right just thought I would let you know despite having sought advice, gone through the main man etc the problem I have just had.

I am an accredited breeder, so all breeding stock must be Hip scored, DNA tested for prcd-PRA and the old standard eye test has been relegated under the ABS to advisory, (but still a requirement by our breed club).

I used my US dog, sent the documents as outlined in the using a foreign stud dog (certified pedigree, registration cert showing registered owners) and his Optigen DNA test certificate so my pups can be recorded as 'Hereditary Clear'  All sent to the main man to avoid problems.

First of all got a letter to say I had endorsement on bitches record (yep I put ti there and forgot to ask to lift it), sent hard copy and a scan to the main man who emailed me saying it was all OK.

Just had and email from ABS section to say they had no record of sires Hip results and hips are required for both parents on ABS scheme.

Rang them up and said, umm it's an overseas dog, you don't record overseas test results, and nowhere does it ask for overseas stud dogs health results.

Seems they won't record them but do need to see that they have been done.

So I googled the OFA pages, did a search for the required dog and copy and pasted the result back to the lady I was speaking to and who had emailed me.

All now good!!!

So if your an ABS member get the copies of the dogs health test results or copy them off any public database so they can verify they have been done even if they don't put the info on pups records.

So hopefully after 3 weeks I will have the pups registered, just as well I sent the paperwork off the day after they were born.

I have my choice of names which is good.

Gosh, that's a bit of a nightmare!  I hadn't even thought about the ABS wanting to see proof of hip scores of overseas sires....   Where can we find this online, as I'd prefer not to hassle the stud dog owner again unless I can't find it somewhere myself online?  The sire was scored in the Netherlands and has HD-A score.  Is there an online database? 

No idea, with USA you ahve the OFA database.  Does the Dutch Kennel Club have an Open database with helath stats for the registered dogs, worth googling.

It has an open database but only for stats for each breed, not with owner's details etc as we do.

I guess I'll have to get the stud owners to send a copy of the certificate.

Does this affect the actual registering of the puppies though?  I mean, if it is just a ABS requirement then the puppies can be reg anyway, without it - surely it's about whether to allow people to remain in the scheme, rather than whether they will reg the puppies?  Confused!

If your an ABS breeder then you have to satisfy the health testing requirements in order to register a litter.

ARG, we are - ok thanks!

Oh - I just realised that my breed isn't listed on the KC Accredited Breeder requirements list:  http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf

Which I think means there are no requirements?  (It is still on the import reg.)

So I'm guessing I wouldn't need to show proof of hip scoring to reg the litter as an Accredited Breeder??