went to a new vet with our puppy (who we thought was fine) - they reckon she has phycological issues and pointed out she :-
1. wont let you put your hand over her head / ears
2. wont let you brush her at all
3. absolutely goes crazy excited when car keys are produced!
4. mouthing and nipping all the time
5. wakes 3 times in the night to play/bite.

she is very smart - already sits - speaks - down -& stay -
how can i improve her character ... i am home all day with her - the vet says more contact handelling - is she a disaster or is it dominance ?
help!
susie

She sounds perfectly normal to me; certainly nothing that normal regular handling won't put right!

When you say she "won't let you brush her", what do you mean? Does she go all wriggly and squirmy and want to chew the brush? That's normal, because brushing is tickly. A single sweep with the brush then praise then another sweep then praise and she'll soon learn that it's nothing to get into a palaver about. The same with hands over her head and ears (and looking at her teeth etc). Do it for a coupleof seconds several times a day and in a week or so she'll be perfectly happy for you to do it. Mouthing and nipping - again perfectly normal! Read The Bite Stops Here; the advice is excellent.

Your VET is a disaster! not the pup. Sounds like a perfectly normal puppy to me. :)
1. Not many dogs likes their heads being touched without getting used to it first -practice with a quick touch and then a treat or other reward.
2. Lots of puppies don't like being brushed, again it's a training issue where she needs to learn something NICE will happen at the end.
3. Car keys -does she like travelling in the car or does she see them as toys? Again nothing strange -it's a young pup! My kids as babies could entertain themselves for an hour with a set of keys.
4. Mouthing and nipping is what ALL puppies do. They explore the world through their teeth.
5. If she wakes in the night to play -ignore her. Be boring. Don't reward her by playing with her.

She isn't dominant -NO dogs are dominant to humans.

Consider changing your vet. :)

thanks guys !!!! ...that vet was making us paranoid !! we love our westie to bits, but havent had a puppy so young before - thanks for the reassurance! :)
susie

Oh La la, is your vet hand in hand with a behaviourist I wonder! Trying to get them new clients.

Pup is normal as others have said, enjoy her, well done on the training you are doing with her, she sounds as sharp as a button, I'd be very wary of this vets agenda.

Hate to throw a spanner in the works but was the pup well socialised? Home bred, not kennel bred? Used to living in doors? etc etc. I purchased a puppy with similar problems e.g when i went to pick her up she tried to nip me. When grooming she tried to bite brush etc etc. I asked for advise on here and was advised she was a puppy and is normal. Don't worry, eventually i thought it was me being somewhat paranoid. So i handled her nicely and rewarded her for letting me hold and pick her up, this went great and she now lets me handle her.

However the grooming never got any better and approx 4 weeks ago she bit through my foot and i couldn't walk for days, she is now two years old. Her behavior deteriorated once i started to walk her and she started to show signs of fear around people, i walked and gave treats for good behaviour. Firstly she would hide around my feet, eventually she started to bark, especially at children with all their loud noises. My girl had unfortunately been brought up in breeding kennels and had no socialisation what so ever. Learning her behaviour only from her mum. Whom lived in kennels and didn't see many people only the breeder and her husband. SO NO ALL MAY NOT BE WELL! Unfortunaltely at 8 weeks old the puppy has already learned too much from her breeders and kennels.

It could be that your puppy hasn't been socialised around people, or been groomed before. I would check how she/he was brought up. Unfortunately if she has not been socialized from birth then it could lead to more problems. Was you girl brought up inside? I would take her to puppy socialisation classes and ensure its on a reward basis only and i would watch how she behaves around people. The trainers at your classes will be able to give you fantastic advise about how to deal with your girls behaviours.

I do wish you all the luck in the world. I wish someone had given me this information when i posed the question nearly two years ago now, i would have watched her more closely, not believed everything i was told on here. Found out more about the breeder and how my girl was kept. I also would have sought out advise from a registered behaviourist early on to ensure i had a happy, healthy, socialised pup

Personally i DO NOT think your vet is a crank or wrong, he is used to all different types of breeds and will know the signs of a puppy showing unusual behaviour that should be looked at. Not necessarily for monetary gain!!!

Sometimes the posters on here look after the dogs and not the people behind them. If you do the wrong thing you could have a very unhappy puppy on your hands. Believe me i am speaking from experience!!

Please, i believed the posters on here that it was ok and the puppy was just being a puppy. They were very very wrong. Your puppy should have been brought up in the home and handled from birth, she should have been around household noise, TV, hoover etc etc.

sounds like the vet has the problem here NOT the puppy!

ah right ....now i am worried again ... BUT our westie LOVES everyone she has met and is desperate to be friends ...but hasnt been out of the house much since we got her pending her final shots - We dont live in an area where we hve much chance of socialising for her, so i do appreciate any opportunity i get - she walks well on the lead in the garden &  she is so loving first thing when she wakes up, she WAS scared of the tv for 24hrs and now she is fine & sleeps & plays by it - our issue is the grooming - mouthing - patting her head - but like the other guys have said ..we will keep trying gently to do this daily untill she adapts --she does stop biting when we say `ow` - maybe its just gonna take her some time. she has no issue being picked up and loves to snuggle up. she plays well on her own and will bring her toy to us to throw & shares.

My girl had unfortunately been brought up in breeding kennels and had no socialisation what so ever. Learning her behaviour only from her mum. Whom lived in kennels and didn't see many people only the breeder and her husband. SO NO ALL MAY NOT BE WELL! Unfortunaltely at 8 weeks old the puppy has already learned too much from her breeders and kennels.

Two points here. Do I take it your puppy was 8 weeks when you got her? Then you had at the very least 4 weeks in which to work on socialisation -the main window being up to 12 weeks of age. For a normal puppy this should be enough. Point number 2 however is that temperament is very much inherited, not just gained -so the dam's behaviour should be carefully assessed when buying a puppy.

so the dam's behaviour should be carefully assessed when buying a puppy
Ooo I think it goes further back than that.  I think that at least 3 generations should be known to have an idea of the pups' temperament.  I know of a dog in my breed whose nasty temperament has regularly skipped a generation and reared its ugly head again. :(
I'm always worried when new breeders say that the sire and dam have good temperaments without knowing what's behind them.......

Can I just add as a groomer that not many pups like being groomed.  This is so very common and not a big deal at all but you need to work at it now as grooming is something she is going to need to do her whole life.  There is nothing worse than getting a dog that bites you while getting groomed and most groomers I know won't do dogs like this any longer.
I would keep your grooming sessions short and sweet just now.  Get a really soft baby brush and when your dog is settled, perhaps sleeping next to you, just change your hand for the soft brush.  Try standing your dog on a table(hold her constantly) and brushing her there.  Literally do about 5 strokes then give her a high value treat then place her back on the floor for a quick play-time.  Repeat as much as you can but at least twice daily.  Once she gets used to being brushed, you can change the brush to combs and slicker-styles.  Remeber they are really sore on young skin.
All of her behaviour sounds totally normal puppy behaviour to me.  Show's what I know,eh?!

Literally do about 5 strokes then give her a high value treat then place her back on the floor for a quick play-time.
I often hear groomers say this.  Do you have time to do that in the parlour?  I just used to give them a cuddle before starting, tell them firmly to stand while I was working, then give them a big fuss when I'd finished.  Everyone dragged to come in for their next appointment.  I'm not sure if confidence in the handling is the key?  Most owners are perhaps too gentle and not positive enough?  :)

Ooo I think it goes further back than that.  I think that at least 3 generations should be known to have an idea of the pups' temperamen

Indeed but your average pet buyer will not HAVE that opportunity. At least they can meet the dam -my point being some ignore the mother, some will listen to excuses like "she's not herself as she has pups" and similar.

Get a really soft baby brush and when your dog is settled, perhaps sleeping next to you, just change your hand for the soft brush.  Try standing your dog on a table(hold her constantly) and brushing her there.  Literally do about 5 strokes then give her a high value treat then place her back on the floor for a quick play-time.

I have an adult bitch who as a pup HATED being groomed -and I did just this. She was really nasty about it, she did bite -hard. I used a very soft brush, did as above. Today when she's adult you'd never believe she was the way she was as she's so soft and friendly.You can do anything with her including scrape tartar off teeth and trim the fur on her paws with her falling asleep on her back.

One thing I' d say though, for any small breed that is to be shown, and that does not YET like grooming -don't groom it on a grooming table. You don't want the dog to associate the judging table with something they don't like having done.

Mine is a Schnauzer and has to be stripped... not good!! It was a control issue with her, she just didn't want to be groomed and chomp if we try to. We did the big fuss, 5 strokes, then 5 minutes etc and then a treat. If its fear related, must be treated differently to control related. e.g "I'm scared of that nasty brush" to " i am not going to be brushed"

All i was trying to say was in some instances it could be just a puppy being a puppy. But we all need a bit more background information before we are able to make that deciion, especially when the lady concerned has never had a young puppy before.

They way you have described her though is as a healthy happy socialised puppy, especially if she likes being stoked outside by other people. 100% advise puppy socialisation to keep that confidence up.

When she bites an "ouch" and then give her a toy she can mouth play with. The other way you can stop her biting your hand and this can work quickly is... If she eats complete food (dried biscuits) feed her, her meals from your hand. This way she associates eating with hands, so will not becoame food agressive, stops her nipping your hands quite quickly as hands become a very nice object, for tickles and feeding. It also gives more confidence building within your home. Confidence is the key word, alwasy build it up and you will have a great dog. After a few weeks of feeding from our hand start getting her to slowly work for some of her food, e.g Sit, down etc... They absolutely love it!!!

Good luck, keep playing and keep rewarding her good behaviour Lynn

Two points here. Do I take it your puppy was 8 weeks when you got her? Then you had at the very least 4 weeks in which to work on socialisation -the main window being up to 12 weeks of age. For a normal puppy this should be enough

She was 8 weeks old and then 2 weeks + after having innoculations takes it to 10 weeks, therefore 2 weeks left to change the history of 10 weeks... Not that easy when they have been kennel bred.

Point number 2 however is that temperament is very much inherited, not just gained -so the dam's behaviour should be carefully assessed when buying a puppy.

She was from a very successful show kennels and her mum was doing well in the ring and her father an international champion. I met her in the home and trusted the breeder, like you would. It wasn't until i had a behaviorist to her that a picture started to form. Like the fact i never actually met mum but saw pictures of her in the ring. You thing in the ring=socialised.... WRONG!! So i never met mum nor dad as he was from abroad. Hence why i said it is easy on here to judge all puppies as the same....they are not and home circumstance is a vital part of your puppy and how it will act as an adult. Especially as the poster saud they have trouble getting out and socialising her and she is already 12 weeks old.

Still advise making the time for reward based puppy classed to help with socialisation.

regarding grooming... owning a breed which needs to be groomed on a regular basis.... I always advise new owners to start from the first day with a soft brush and a few nice treats ..... I have found over the years to have a chew bone  as a diversion whilst I groom ..  while they have a good chew I can start at the back and work my way along to the front : my breed of  dog are groomed on their side..I then remove the chew once I have finished ..they then look forward to the chew when they see the grooming bag appear.

I had one bitch who didnt like the grooming in the early days so I had her sit on my husbands knee while I groomed her to get her used to the brushes and drier....she almost always fell asleep she was so relaxed...this same girl now pushes in to be groomed when its not even her turn!!

All my dogs enjoy being groomed ...make it fun and a bit at a time is the way to go.

Like the fact i never actually met mum but saw pictures of her in the ring.

Why didn't you meet your puppy's mum? Was she not at the house with the breeder when you went to view the puppies?

Why didn't you meet your puppy's mum? Was she not at the house with the breeder when you went to view the puppies?

No I never met her. I saw pictures of her. You just trust breeders sometimes. I wish it was now, it would be different. I obviously was naive and owners didn't want me to meet mum. Lesson learned, my girl is all over the place.

>She was 8 weeks old and then 2 weeks + after having innoculations takes it to 10 weeks, therefore 2 weeks left to change the history of 10 weeks... Not that easy when they have been kennel bred.

For anyone else reading this, you start your socialisation as soon as your pup comes home (certainly within a few days to allow settling).  Pups can be out and about before full vaccination is complete but must not have their paws on the floor in high dog traffic areas.  They can be put down on blankets, on benches, on 'virgin' territory (tidal beaches, private land etc), they can be carried in trolleys, in baby carriers and in the car.  They can visit garden centres, the vet, your parents, the bus station - anywhere almost. 

With a bit of commonsense, a certain amount of caution, some weight training (!), and some enthusiasm your dog can be pretty well socialised and quite experienced within the 16 week window.    You do not have to wait until vaccinations are complete :)

We dont live in an area where we hve much chance of socialising for her,

It is hugely important to make an effort  to socialise though :) because it prevents problem behaviours as an adult. Your pup does sound fine but what i will say is that it's impossible to tell via the internet, this is what must be understood.

What I would suggest is that you book her in for a puppy school class - and if it means travelling, then still do it. I'd suggest checking out www.apdt.co.uk and/or www.puppyschool.co.uk You will also meet other owners who are in the same boat as you, and be able to get great hands on advice from a trainer actually seeing your pup :)

Also do some googling on the net to find out more about socialising/social referencing/habituating dogs.

Dr Dunbar is coming to the UK and puppies are the subject of one of his seminars, here is what he has to say:

http://www.jamesandkenneth.co.uk/UKRegistration.pdf

Predict & Prevent Adolescent Behaviour & Training Problems (9:30 am - 5:30 pm Saturday 9th April)
We are not doing one tenth of the training, one hundredth of the socialization, or one thousandth of the classical conditioning required to provide
puppies with the manners, confidence and social savvy to successfully navigate adolescence. We are not even close to fully capitalising on the
opportunities of early puppyhood, yet we are still surprised when dogs develop utterly predictable and preventable, behaviour, temperament and
training problems during adolescence. This seminar will describe the most pressing developmental issues in puppy husbandry: How to prevent
behaviour problems (the #1 terminal illness) and temperament problems, especially anxiety, fearfulness, bullying, aggression and hyperactivity.

I'd recommend books by Gwen Bailey - her Puppyschool books are good, plus her Superdog one.
If you are worried, contact a reputable behaviourist - there are many bad ones out there, but I'd suggest www.apbc.org.uk

kind regards and good luck!

Lindsay
x

Hi,

I don't usually post, but felt i had to reply to dogs a babe about the early socialisation being easily achieved once they have come home at 8 weeks. I completely agree that puppies should be carried out and about as early as possible to give some socialisation until they are able to be walked around. However, I think it's a mistake to assume that this will make up for the puppy having missed out on lots of human interaction prior to 8 weeks.

The most crucial socialisation period is the first 12 weeks, before gradually closing up until 16 weeks. If puppies have been kenneled up until 8 weeks and therefore had limited interactions with humans and household activity, then this means you are starting at a huge disadvantage. The puppy might be quite fearful with humans at that point and therefore not enjoy the socialisation experiences you are trying to introduce. With lots of effort once the puppy comes home, then hopefully the deficit of socialisation can be rectified, but it can't be assumed it'll be enough if the breed is one which really needs alot of socialisation. The puppy won't be as confident with people as it could have been.

is your vet hand in hand with a behaviourist

I was going to say the same thing. The pup sounds like a pup to me.

Hi Toon

Good point.  I was only commenting on the part of Lindylindylindy's post which suggested that she hadn't even started socialisation until after the 2 week vaccination period, and wouldn't want a casual reader to be left with the impression that waiting is necessary :)

thank you all for your input .... i totally understand about the socialisation but we live in the middle of no where - no neighbours and i have no transport ... Bella has met 6 people who came to the door or for dinner and loved them all to bits (we have had her 3wks now) .. she even watched the binmen without going ballistic - i try to take her to any new noise/attraction when i  can - she has met a dog (at a distance) and just desperately wanted to play with it ... at the weekend we will take her for a drive and see where we are allowed to take her - ive started the grooming with praise/treats and day 2 is getting easier already - she slept/didnt disturb us 9-5am last night - which was great - and i am walking away and calling her `stupid` when she bites - still a work in progress - i am so grateful for all your comments - good and bad - and i now have a direction to head and dont feel so defeated. I know it will be tough as i am home all day, but i do leave her alone and go outside or upstairs so she understands to be alone sometimes.
thank you eveyone once again.

Hi, just seen where you are, so I agree it may be a bit more difficult for you :)
Good luck, just do your best.

Genes also play a part in behaviour.If there are good genes in the pup that will help a lot with how pup copes. It's good she is friendly to people, very much so. But do your best at socialising! :)

Lindsay
x

our issue is the grooming - mouthing

One of my boys (almost 5 year old GR) goes nuts when he sees the brushes he loves them and he jumps around in a frenzy and will sometimes still mouth us, but that is all it is) a mouthing puppy is normal especially when excited!

how long will it take for her to understand not to mouth/bite ?.. those teeth are getting bigger by the day !!.. she is so bright - sits/down /paw etc only took her 2 days - yet to stop mouthing - even when i yelp and leave the room - she isnt getting it - she just barks back at my `No` in defiance - i really thought 2 wks down the line this would have gone or am i expecting too much - she is just 3 months old now - she pees on the puppy mat in the house and goes on command outside in the garden - poos she prefers to do outside, so i suppose that is a start - i am worried that im getting soft and that she will suffer :(

>how long will it take for her to understand not to mouth/bite ?..

A month or two - certainly not until her adult teeth are through, because until then she needs to mouth. She only needs to be gentle when she mouths people, not that she mustn't mouth at all. Did you read the link (called "The Bite Stops Here")you were given earlier?