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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Breeding Terms
- By helensdogsz Date 27.02.11 08:36 UTC
I have recently bred a litter and was going to keep a bitch puppy. However for various reasons I am not going to be able to keep the puppy now. I am thinking of selling her on breeding terms so that I can have a puppy back from her in the future.
I am not sure how to word the agreement so was wondering if people here could advise.
What I would like from an agreement is that I choose the stud for the first litter and then have first choice of the puppies. I would like the litter registered under my affix.
Now I have some other queries which I presume would need to be covered in the agreement for example who pays for the health tests, who pays the stud fee, and who pays for a caesarean or other vets fees if the bitch should need them. What do other people do about these things? is there an accepted protocol for who pays for these costs?
Then what happens if the bitch either misses or doesn't have a suitable puppy? Can an agreement be carried forward to another litter?
Also what do people charge for a bitch on breeding terms? I have heard anything from nothing to 3/4 usual price of a puppy
- By JoFlatcoat (Moderator) [gb] Date 27.02.11 09:12 UTC
Honestly - don't do it!

There are far too many hidden pitfalls which you don't foresee.     I have been badly stung by some people in Germany that we thought we trusted - until they have walked off with my bitch and transferred her into a partner's name without my knowledge.     This is in spite of having an agreement which I thought was watertight.  

You can lose ' friends' like this - whether they were good friends in the first place is open to debate........

Jo
- By weimed [gb] Date 27.02.11 10:25 UTC
surely if you are doing terms of getting the pick of the litter puppy back for free registered in your name then the potential owners are getting a fairly rough deal if paying for the priviliage of owning the mum? can't see many people being keen on taking that deal.
- By chaumsong Date 27.02.11 10:27 UTC
I think it is usual to give the bitch for free to someone you trust, but as Jo says - don't do it. I can think of 4 sets of good friends all of whom have fallen out over breeding terms.
- By WestCoast Date 27.02.11 10:30 UTC
After the first litter then they own a quality bitch - that's a good enough reason for many people.  And we also don't all agree on which is pick of litter so they might actually keep the one that they wanted anyway. :)

And the agreement can say whatever you want it to say, although a discussion between both parties would seem to be a more agreeable arrangement.

Having said that, I would never consider breeding terms from either side of the fence.  In 30 years I've seen many cause heartache.  In fact I don't think that I know of one where both sides have been completely happy, and many are between friends who thought they could make it work!
- By Alfieshmalfie Date 27.02.11 10:48 UTC
The thing is, if you are unable to keep a puppy now, what is to say that you wouldnt be able to keep a pup in two years + time when the bitch has a litter?  I think its one thing to say 'if you breed her in the future' please let me know as Id love one of her pups. Its another thing entirely to want that sort of 'control' over absolutely everything to do with the breeding but perhaps not want the testing costs, possible c-section costs associated with it.  Also what happens if there isnt a pup you want out of that litter?  What happens if the testing doesnt come back good enough for her to be bred from? What happens if they dont manage her whelping like you would want them to ie feeding/accomodation/socialisation?

Sounds not the sort of thing most puppy buyers;friends would go for tbh.
- By helensdogsz Date 27.02.11 11:32 UTC
Thanks for all your input. I sounds like there are a lot of pitfalls in breeding terms. when a friend suggested it to me I wondered if it might be too good to be true and it seems that might be the case.
- By tigran [gb] Date 27.02.11 12:22 UTC
I would just like to offer a different point of view. Many years ago I bought for a nominal price a well bred bitch on breeding terms.
The arrangement was that I paid the stud fee , dog chosen by seller and she got POL..  
This worked out fine, the dog registered under her affix got 2ccs.
However for her 2nd litter I chose the stud dog myself and this time my POL became my first champion.
So it was a good way to start in the breed and although I no longer have this breed I can honestly say that to this day the breeder and I have remained very good friends.
PS I did not know her before I bought the bitch.
- By Goldmali Date 27.02.11 16:57 UTC
So it was a good way to start in the breed

Indeed -there are some breeds, notably ones that have very small litters, where it can be impossible to buy a bitch good enough to breed from and show. You can be on a waiting list for years and years without getting lucky as the bitch pups just are not sold unless very obvious pets. Then a bitch on breeding terms can work perfectly and it did for me. But everything has to be in writing and it has to be with somebody you really feel you can trust, and them you.
- By triona [gb] Date 27.02.11 17:17 UTC
To be honest unless you have a numerically small breed or have invested on importing new lines I would not sell on breeding terms (too many pit falls).

The new owners may not want to breed or the puppy just doesn't turn out good enough to breed, I would just suggest to the owners that you may like to have a puppy in the future if they did want to breed and between now and then develop a good friendship that doesn't have strings attached.
- By tigran [gb] Date 27.02.11 18:04 UTC
Forgot to add that the bitch I had on breeding terms was not a puppy. She was 18 months old and had qualified for Crufts.
So perhaps that makes a difference.
Having said that in my last litter there was a very promising dog puppy and I am not able to keep mixed sexes. So he went to a very good friend on partnership which works really well for us. We always go to the shows together , I kept his sister. So I get the pleasure of seeing him winning, he has 1cc as well as handling him if necessary.
But in both cases I have nothing in writing, I know people will say I have been lucky, but these are people like me who have been in the breeds over 50 years, so perhaps that makes a difference.!
- By rabid [gb] Date 27.02.11 18:21 UTC
As a different idea, what about just endorsing the litter - any puppy owners who in future want to breed, and you would hear about it because they would have to contact you for endorsement to be lifted.  You might also be able to influence the sire chosen (especially if you made that a condition of the endorsement being lifted) then you could decide to have a pup back from that breeding.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 27.02.11 18:42 UTC
A better idea is to do a Loan of bitch (there is a Kennel club agreement for this), your not guaranteed that they will want to allow this, but if she works out well you can ask to have her back for one litter. 

The ownership of the bitch stays in their name but you own her for the purposes of breeding for the specified time in the agreement (usually long enough to cover two seasons in case she misses.

You sell the bitch to them in the normal way and then pay the owner for the use of their bitch in the same way as if you used a stud dog (so in effect they get their money back if they agree to the idea).

I bred one litter this way, in my case it was as a favour to the bitch owners who wanted their bitch to have a litter but were not in a position to do so themselves.  They had Long involvement in the breed as exhibitors and judging,a dn had the satisfaction of one of the pups becoming a champion, albeit with my affix.

In the USA 'leasing' a bitch for breeding which is the same thing is not uncommon among breeders to keep a  line going.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Breeding Terms

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