Sorry to post about this ... the answer to my question has been given on the forum, but the search facility will only allow me to go back 180 days, so must be beyond that!

Someone posted a query re using Panacur 10% on a pregnant bitch. It had never occured to me that I could use the Panacur 10% sold for horses on dogs, but there were replies on the post saying that it was ok to do so.  Can't remember who replied, but can anyone confirm or otherwise please.  If so, are you still using the same amounts you'd give to a dog, ie (I think) 5ml for 20kg?
Thanks

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1132296;hl=#pid1132296

Is this the post?

I always use panacur 10% for pregnant bitches they have 1ml of panacur 10% per 4kg of body weight from day 40 to days after whelping. I buy mine from www.hyperdrug.co.uk

Pah, how did you do that?  I put in panacur, I put in 10% ... and it didn't work for me :-(

Yes Tanya1989, that's the one I was looking for!  Thanks a lot.

you need to put your search into the 'google sitesearch' box at the bottom of the page, that will go back to year dot :-D
Chris

Thanks tatty-ead, I shall remember that for next time. Eeeeh, there are some knowledgeable folk on CD!

I didn't know till some told me :-)

"How many"?!           answer has to be 'not enough!'

I remember who the poster was... Noora ;-)

well u learn something new everyday i didnt know either  :-)

I use the Panacur 10% I buy by the litre for my pregnant bitches, adults and puppies, and also share it with friends at cost.

It is 0.25ml per kilo bodyweight for pregnant bitches (so my 20kg girls get 5ml per day), 0.5ml per kilo for puppies given over 3 days,a dn 1ml per kilo for adutls as a single dose.

My vet has just recommended millbemax for pregnant bitches, as panacur does not do as many types of worms (I can't remember the ones she mentioned now). Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

As I understood it only Panacur is licensed and tested for use in pregnancy in the UK.

Was just looking ans it doesn't say much about use in pregnancy other than in can be used?????  I don't like the fact it is in tablet form, preferring liquid.

Doing more googling.

Here was a post: By Carrington   Date 12.02.07 18:58 GMT Edited 12.02.07 19:01 GMT And this is taken from a report from people who actually have tested it on pregnant and lactating bitches.

Tolerance of a Combination of
Milbemycin Oxime and Praziquantel
in Breeding and Lactating Bitches
After Repeat Dosing
Rudolf Schenker, PhD1
Robert Cody, M. Agr. Sc. H. Dip. Tox1
Günther Strehlau, Dr. rer.nat1
Pablo Junquera, Dipl. Biol., PhD2
1Novartis Animal Health Inc.
Basel, Switzerland
2Vetparcs GmbH
Zürich, Switzerland

INTRODUCTION
Milbemycin oxime is a macrocyclic lactone
with high efficacy against a number of
helminth parasites of dogs such as heartworms,
1-3 hookworms,4-9 roundworms,9 and
whipworms.7,10 The safety of milbemycin
oxime for dogs has been broadly investigated
in numerous studies that have shown it is
well tolerated by adult dogs, pregnant bitches,
and pups.11 In one particular study, bitches
were treated at 1.5 mg milbemycin oxime per kg body weight daily from mating until
weaning. Neither the bitches nor their offspring
showed signs of adverse drug effects.
The safety of praziquantel for dogs has also
been studied in several toxicity and tolerability
investigations,12 and many years of use of
this active ingredient in numerous countries
have confirmed that this compound can be
used safely in dogs. The individual commercial
products are also approved for use in
pregnant bitches in the European Union, the
United States, and numerous other countries.
The present investigation was performed to
confirm the safety of the combination product
for bitches and their offspring during pregnancy
and lactation when used at the highest
recommended dose rate.

Many companies selling this product including veterinary practices also recommend it as safe for pregnant bitches.

And I can certainly vouch for the product myself having used it during two pregancies. (Not mine, but my bitches )

Dosage chart here: http://www.vetgb.com/vetgb_pdfs/milbemax_b3f9_vetgb.pdf it says to take care with collie breeds, so it looks like one of the ingredients is from the ivermectin family.

It doesn't say when in pregnancy it can be used or anything about preventing migration of larva to pups, which is the whole point of using in pregnancy?

ive always used drontol but im going to use Panacur 10% this from day 50? till post whelp(2 or 3 days)? so if  i givin to mum do you have to weigh every day or do you give every day the same amount ? hope that makes sence lol

im going to use Panacur 10% this from day 50?

Just check, I think you need to start using it from day 45, might be wrong ... got to double check that myself.  It does tell you on the packaging but check sooner rather than later! :-)
You're giving the same amount to Mum every day, so dosage doesn't increase as her weight increases ... nightmare, weighing pregnant doggy every day!!

Edit:  Just checked ... you need to use it from day 40!

Gosh, I'm surprised Millbemax recommended, but then that's what my vet recommends to me very time I visit so I'm guessing there's quite a good mark up on it.  I've used it a few times in the past and it's always had quite a violent reaction on my dogs, so I generally use Drontal now.  I did use the Panacur tablets but they've stopped making them ... something about the flavouring not being licenced for use with dogs, but ok with humans?!  Panacur is the only wormer that covers giardia - not that important in the grand scheme of thing unless you've experience of giardia!  I've had it and one of my bitches had it as a puppy - we had it at different times I hasten to add!  Mine caught in rather more exotic climes :-D  Also I think Panacur covers lungworm, again not a problem in my parts but I believe it can be Wales/SWest.

I understand fenbendezole (oh dear, should check spelling first) has been proven to greatly reduce the transfer of worms, which is why Panacur 10% is a popular wormer for pregnant girlies.

so let me get this right :) i get her weighed at day 45 and use same amount till post whelp? x
thanks
jox

Hah, you lept in just as I was editing!  Yes, but it's day 40 ... datasheet giving full amounts and when, etc can be found here:
http://www.intervet.co.uk/Products_Public/Panacur_10__Liquid/090_Product_Datasheet.aspx

thanks for that :)

>I'm surprised Millbemax recommended, but then that's what my vet recommends to me very time I visit so I'm guessing there's quite a good mark up on it.

Nothing to do with the mark-up; it's just that it covers a greater range of parasites so is more effective, and you don't need so many tablets; for a dog weighing more than 10kg Milbemax is cheaper than Drontal.

Haven't seen anywhere the dosage timing or advantages in whelp????

Panacur 10% is used from day forty of pregnancy till two days post whelping on pregnant bitches at a dosage of 0.25ml per kg of body weight.
If using panacur 2.5% the dosage is 1ml per kg of body weight again from day forty to 2 days post whelping. for pregnant bitches
For pups up to 250g dosage is 0.5ml daily for 3 consecutive days of panacur 2.5%
250 to 500g 1ml daily for 3 consecutive days of panacur 2.5%
500g to 1kg 2ml daily for 3 consecutive days of panacur 2.5%
From 1kg body weight panacur 2.5% or 10% can be used on pups
Panacur may be used from 24 hours but treatment should be started by 2 weeks of age
Any other dogs owned should be wormed at same time to stop cross-infection from stools
Hope this is some help, by the way the 10% is the more cost effective method
Stan Berry.

I did question my vet when she suggested Millbemax and she said you do have to be careful about giving the exact dose per body weight. She has Collies and the same breed as me (which is a Collie related breed). She uses it on her dogs and just to repeat myself said it covers more parasites that Panacur. This is to be my first ever litter and so I have no direct experience of this and want to minimise any risk to bitch and pups.

But what is the regime in pregnancy, it sound s like ti is just to get rid of the bitches worm burden, which is really best done before mating.

If it is to deal with encysted larva (which is the point of such  long dosing regime with Panacur from day 40 to 2 days post whelping)what is the regime with the Milbemax and does ti act on encysted larva to minimise transference to the unborn pups.

Special Precautions and Warnings

Studies with milbemycin oxime indicate that the margin of safety in certain dogs of Collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds. In these dogs, the recommended dose should be strictly observed.

The tolerance of MILBEMAX in young puppies from these breeds has not been investigated.

Taken from the makers website

We all know of cases with Panacur and Drontal of puppies becoming ill, and ti has been well tested, so I certainly wouldn't risk using something that hadn't been.

I always weigh and dose each puppy individually and I dose to the complete kilo.  In other words a pup weighing 1.5kilo will be dosed at 1kg amount, 1/2 ml not 1ml until it is over 2kg etc.

These wormers are strong chemicals, after all the dosage for cattle is 1ml for 10kg bodyweight and 1ml per 5kg for sheep.

So does milbemax reduce transference of encysted larva to the puppies, if not there is no pint in using it on a pregnant bitch.

The regime was for the bitch from day 42, not for the puppies.

Yes but the point of dosing the bitch is not so much to get rid of her worms, (which you should have done before mating) but to stop the larva encysted in her tissues, activated by pregnancy hormones being passed via placenta to the pups.

Hi I was looking for advise on the to Milbemax or Panicure. I am glad i found this thread. My pregnant Bitch is day 40 (guessing it was the middle mating) tomorrow. I also found this on the web when I did some searching
"All modern wormers are safe and effective but on very rare occasions breeders have found that puppies have become ill after being wormed. The symptoms described are usually diarrhoea, often foul-smelling and containing blood and sometimes with vomiting. The puppies may also have a high temperature and become dehydrated.

Wormers like panacur that contain Fenbendazole or Febantel have a very gentle action "starving" the worms by preventing them absorbing glucose so there is no effect on the `host` animal. Dead worms are then digested, The safety margin of Fenbendazole -panacur wormer- means that it is almost impossible to give a dose large enough to harm puppies."

Looks like thats the reason for using Panicure as opposed to Milbe and like the others say stopping worm transfer in pregnancy where possible.

thisnk im gunna get 2.5% so the pups can have some when there born as we have a collie and dont think the pups will weigh enough to use the 10%. Is that correct?

I use the 10% mine get 1/2 ml a day the first time.  Much easier to get that down than 2ml of the weaker strength, not to mention cheaper.

> thisnk im gunna get 2.5% so the pups can have some when there born as we have a collie and dont think the pups will weigh enough to use the 10%. Is that correct?

Well I have toy breeds and have always used the 10%.  It's the same price, and if you buy the 2.5% then you give a 4 times bigger dose!  It works out more expensive, although that is not my reason at all.  It is bad enough getting smaller quantities down a wriggling pup, so the 10% is easier to administer.  Yes, having the tiniest of breeeds, it often means that the first puppy dosing can be as little as 0.02ml but as long as you are totally confident and happy about working out your doses, and weighing pups accurately then go with the easiest option.

I have electronic scales that are used only for puppy weighing, and they are more accurate than my vets big scales used for monitoring the "diet class."

I find that, because my bitches are wormed during pregnancy, the pups are already used to Panacur when they are born.

Whoops, Barbara types faster than me!
:-)

Does the Panacur come with the syringe too, or do you need to buy that separately?

no it dont come with syring just a little cup ,but if u ask your vet for a syring they will give you 1 :)
and i agree with brainless and jean here its hard to get the wormer down pups without it going everywhere!!! so if i was you go for the 10% ,panacur 10% is what ive used for my litter that are leaveing now :(
xxxx

For puppies I buy the Panacur paste  that does come in a graduated syringe and is easier to give than the liquid due to being  a slightly thicker consistancy.
To worm the bitch I use 10% Panacur liquid.

> Does the Panacur come with the syringe too, or do you need to buy that separately?

I like to have several on the go, so that I can use fresh syringes as I put used ones in sterilising fluid.  I normally buy 10 at a time, in varying sizes.

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Syringe-Disposable-1ml/productinfo/SYR1/