Just after some thoughts here.  I've always thought Remy - isabella (fawn) dobe, born of a fawn sire and blue dam - had colour dilute alopecia, due to his colour and breeding.  But in November, he was on referral for lethargy and a passing vet commented on his coat - he believes that it is not CDA but rather an endocrine disorder.  His main suspect was thyroid but while Remy is hypothyroid, he is on medication and everything is as it should be - he's recently had his dosage lowered actually as it was slightly too high.

So a bit of history:

Remy is 8 on April 1st.  He has had a poor coat from day 1 - worst in his litter - and hair loss that started around about 6 months old.

The symptoms fit with CDA for the most part - he has pretty good coat on his legs/feet/head, and on his body it's very poor.  He has almost no top coat, but unlike the typical dobe, he has a very fluffy (but very sparse) undercoat.  This, like the top coat, pulls out very easily.  The top coat hairs are bent as is normal for CDA (in dobes anyhoo).

Recently I have noticed that the hair on his ears is starting to thin out and the ends are getting a bit crumbly/scurfy - not typical of CDA so I am leaning towards believing the random vet!

In addition to his poor coat, Rem has had mild skin problems for most his life too - the odd ingrowing hair and constant, although not bad, pimples and spots down his spine.  Again I've always put this down to his colour/breeding (skin problems being common in fawns and blues), and vets have always ignored me when I mention it - but dealing with a scottie with a severe staph infection at the moment I'm now not so sure, and I wonder if the two are connected (the fur and spots I mean, not Remy and the scottie lol!).

Negative for mange, thyroid fine, he's also been tested twice for Cushings and that was fine.

Any ideas, anyone?  At the end of the month I am coming into some money (hooray for small miracles!) so I will be starting to investigate this then (have to wait as it's not covered under insurance) - I noticed reading about the staph that lethargy can become a symptom, wouldn't think his is bad enough for that but with the recent investigations for lethargy with him that did strike a chord.

Are his symptoms worse during the winter months?

Only wondered, as my 2 Dobes coats are much sparser during the winter and any tests/skin scrapings we've had done have come back negative. Lottie (8) is hypothyroid and is annually tested by Dr Jean Dodds. Hattie's (nearly 6) thyroid levels are fine, and I have her tested at the same time as Lottie.

A Dobe breeder recommended I give them a zinc supplement during the winter, which she does with her browns, but I haven't noticed any difference.

I'm sure as the daylight hours get longer, their coats will improve, as they have done previously. Seasonal alopecia?

No, it's the same whatever the weather.  Which is a blessing I suppose as he feels the cold enough already bless him!

I've tried various supplements in the past - zinc, Vit E, omegas, he's on a multi-vit and mineral dog one now - none seem to make a difference.  Food doesn't either, he's on Skinners Salmon & Rice at the mo but has been on raw before and no change (much as I hoped it would help).

Hope you dont mind me replying. I am not a doberman owner but I do have dogs with skin problems and whilst reading the dog world newspaper I noticed that the doberman breed council are having a health seminar at liverpool university and talks will be on skin diseases and auto immune disease in dobermans. Its on sun 20th feb and info can be found  at www.dobermanbreedcouncil.co.uk, even if its not in your area you may be able to get advise of their findings and knowledge.

Well funk me!

Scuse me for being so blunt but that is bluddy typical - I am at the liverpool uni teaching hospital on the 17th with Soli-dobe (cardio appt), but won't be able to go there again on the sunday.  Flippin eck I am reet annoyed now!!

LOL! Thought I had said something wrong for a minute! The talks at the seminar are from 3 different Dr's at the uni I think, so I hope you can get some info or go to the breed council website and see if they can advise you. I was looking on a website, www.nzymes.com, not necessarily to buy their products but reading the testimonials it appears that we all seem to have similar symptoms, lethargy, skin problems etc and have tested for same ailments eg thyroid etc. I get frustrated when the vets treat the problem but dont seem interested in finding the underlying cause!

Likewise, although in Remy's case they've never even treated the symptoms - just kind of fobbed me off.

Good news on the seminar front though, I mentioned it in passing to my dad last night as we were swapping vet notes - he's going to lend me a few quid so I can get there. :-)

Bless him, he's a star - the very concept of more than 2 dogs - never mind 7 - is utterly abhorrent for him, but he can still see, without me having to explain, just how important a seminar on dobes is to me and how important it could be in the future.  I think it helps that Remy was my first dog, while I was still at home - so Dad had 3 years to fall in love with dobes ;-)

Re. nzymes - I've used them before, ruddy good products but sadly I don't think anyone over here can sell them now - something to do with cost of shipping or red tape, something like that.  But all those symptoms are so common - I have them all myself, but I know they are caused by a deficiency in EFAs (omegas) so I'm on the road to sorting them.

Drs are the same though - treat the symptoms, never the cause.  I've had lethargy etc for 11 years now, no joy at the GP but one 1 hour session with a nutritionist (at my expense, of course, but lucky for me I groom her dog so got a discount ;-)) and she'd identified the problem.  Now I'm on the supps and more fish, everything is improving - even my 15-year clinical depression!  I'm tempted to try it with Remy for the lethargy - tried it for the coat but no joy, but the lethargy is new-ish.

Glad to hear you are able to go to the seminar. Bless your dad, he's a good un! I got so fed up recently I decided to contact crossgates bioenergetics and sent a hair sample off from my young dog who as had skin problems and other issues since she was 4 mth old. The analysis that I got back was very interesting and it had picked up on the things that were causing problems. They sent me a remedy made especially for her ailments and advised me on things I needed to be giving or not giving her and so far I have seen improvements. We aren't quite there yet but hopefully on the right road. fingers crossed for your dobes.

Well, Soli's cardiologist happens to be the wife of the dermatologist speaking at the seminar - she's said today that she's sure he'd be happy to have a look at Remy if I take him along with me.

I think thats great news if you could take soli along! It sounds like this seminar may be beneficial to Soli and you. Let us know how it goes and if you learn anything from it.

Sorry I said soli instead of remy. Only just read it back to myself! How did you get on at liverpool uni?

It was brill, lots of useful stuff learned!  Neil had a look at Remy, he believes it is CDA after all - the most probably candidates otherwise would be Cushing's or thyroid, and both have been ruled out.  The spots he thinks are a secondary infection, due to his colour and lack of hair (so more exposure of the skin).