How do you get a studbook number?I thought it was  only  possible if your breed had CCs? But reading through a BRS saw a Pyrenean sheepdog had got one but they don't have CCs?

You are no doubt right but they do seem to have a standard so even if rare they are not on the import register so I would think they will achieve stud book numbers as anyone else.

You are right that at shows, only breeds with CCs can win a stud book number. However you can also achieve it in working competitions such as agility -but unsure there HOW.

Could be that the dog is a Champion of another by affiliated kennel club.

I don't think that counts Nova, because you don't get a stud book number by having a Champion, you get it by winning a CC, RCC, JW or certain placings in certain classes where tickets are on offer for the breed here in the UK. You won't get it by going abroad.

When I looked at the KC site it only mentioned field trials would qualify, but I'm certain Tohmé recently mentioned agility.

Found the post by Tohme, this does explain it all:
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1197575;hl=stud%20book#pid1197575

Happy for you to be right I am woolly on the subject, just noted that they are not on the Imp Reg so though there may be other ways - as you say no doubt in a working capacity. 

Thanks Marianne. Interesting. It obviously can't be for the Gundog Field trials or the Bloodhound Trials. I guess it must be the Working Trials or Agility. Will see if I can find out. thanks

If you read the link to the old thread you'll see it mentions field trials, bloodhound trials, obedience, agility etc. :)

Yes, I know, but I am pretty sure there are no Pyreneans working Ch C in obedience, so it must be Working  trials or Agility

I know this is going to make me sound really dim (not for the first time ;-) ) bit what exactly is a stud book number?  I know you get one from showing, etc but what does it really mean?

There's a few tollers with stud book numbers :) from agility and working trials.

> I know this is going to make me sound really dim (not for the first time ;-) ) bit what exactly is a stud book number?  I know you get one from showing, etc but what does it really mean?

I'm sure someone will reply in more detail but broadly speaking it's when you get a 1st or 2nd place in certain breed classes at Champ shows. Weirdly, bitches also qualify for their STUD book number in the same way and I know of at least 2 neutered males who also got it!

>> I know this is going to make me sound really dim (not for the first time ;-) ) bit what exactly is a stud book number?  I know you get one from showing, etc but what does it really mean?
> I'm sure someone will reply in more detail but broadly speaking it's when you get a 1st or 2nd place in certain breed classes at Champ shows. Weirdly, bitches also qualify for their STUD book number in the same way and I know of at least 2 neutered males who also got it!

It does depend what band your breed is in, mine is in band E which means 1st/2nd & 3rd in Limit & Open at Champ shows gets a stud book number, which means the dog is qualified for crufts for life. Plus if your dog wins a Junior Warrant gets its stud book number. Stud Book numbers can be won by a dog or a bitch.

It's basically a mark of quality, it basically means that the dog has achieved some level of success, isn't simply just a registered non entity.

With the UK system having so few champions compared to say countries like the USA where achieving the championship is in reputable circles almost a pre-requisite to being good enough to breed from.

The wins needed are based on bands depending on popularity.

In my breed apart from CC and RCC winners and JW winners only 1st and 2nd in the Open class qualify.  As we continue showing our dogs until some 10 - 12 years plus, that is usually the strongest class.

To add, a stud book number gives the dog Crufts qualification for life.

I don't believe though that is it's main objective though as the Crufts qualifier was only brought in to limit numbers due to venue constraints.

No, but to most people now the lifetime qualification is what matters. In fact as far as I know there are only two practical uses for a stud book number; the qualification and helping the breeder to get the stud book accolade if an AB.

>the Crufts qualifier was only brought in to limit numbers due to venue constraints

Does that mean that once upon a time Crufts was open to all entries (like other Champ Shows)?  I had assumed it was always a 'winners' show

...actually I'd quite like to see a programme about the history and development of dog showing - and I don't mean the one that introduced the subject of Nazi's alongside pictures of Victorian shows!!

There really is a bit of room for some good dog themed TV or even an exhibition; with some of our older canine societies exhibiting some of their records and photographs.  Most of them ought to have pretty good archive material...

Edited to say: sorry I've wandered completely off topic - my mind appears to be taking a holiday :)

> Does that mean that once upon a time Crufts was open to all entries (like other Champ Shows)?  I had assumed it was always a 'winners' show
>
>

Yes just another show (winning there is no more than winning at any other champ show, and for most of us far less important than a breed club champ show win), but the only one most of the general public knew/know about, thanks to Mr Crufts showmanship and PR getting it into peoples minds and making it poplar.

Couldn't the dog world do with someone like that now.

Thanks for the explanations.  I don't know why but a stud book number just doesn't seem to get mentioned in GSD circles, or maybe it's just not the ones I mix in! ;-)