>I've recently seen a litter of Staffy X Chow Chow.  A high drive dog crossed with one who rarely wears their 'listening ears'. 

I have a Rottweiler X Chow Chow. The people on here who know me will know that he is the love of my life and absolutely the most wonderful dog with a temperament to die for (and extremely attractive, I might add).  They'll also know that his stubborness, brute strength, independence and super intelligence drives me to distraction on a daily basis.  It's mentally exhausting trying to constantly out-think him and stay one step ahead all the time.  I dread to think what'll become of some of those poor pups when the owners realise that their dog is smarter than they are.

Just to add I don't see anymore behaviour issues in designer or accidental cross breeds than in purebreeds.

Adam

someone i know brought a 'Labradoodle' they said they were told it was 4th generation labradoodle, was told how tall he would get, that he would be non-moulting, realy intelagent so easy to train and look exactly like his parents (eyebrows, beard, shaggy coat) ect ect (i did warn them befor they got him but they didnt listen) and here is what they got
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34034564@N03/4026775576/in/set-72157621883538956/
he is hyper beond beliefe, has the attention span of a nat, extermaly nurvous, they cant train him and there trainer gave up on him (3 months in to training befor trainer gave up as they couldnt get him to walk to heal for some reason, i managed it with a LOT of patiance and time, but his owner just gives up), and he sheds everywhere. They have said they hate the dog now and from what ive seen the dog doesnt seem to like them either.

Almost complete throwback to Labrador there.

He certainly does look like a poor bred Lab except the look in his eyes - he looks unstable and I would not want him near to playing children.

> he is hyper beond beliefe, has the attention span of a nat, extermaly nurvous, they cant train him and there trainer gave up on him (3 months in to training befor trainer gave up as they couldnt get him to walk to heal for some reason, i managed it with a LOT of patiance and time, but his owner just gives up), and he sheds everywhere. They have said they hate the dog now and from what ive seen the dog doesnt seem to like them either.

But isn't this just the same as a lot of people who buy a dog without researching the breed and also how much work ANY puppy/dog is ????

I've had issues with both my dogs - one a mongrel of unknown parentage and the other a pedigree - but we didn't give up and made sure that we just went to good training classes and took advice from experienced people.

Any pedigree dog can be trouble in the wrong hands :)

Daisy

Thing is Daisy they did not get what they bought. We all know that you have to work with you puppy to get what you want but you should have an idea what the potential is, in this case they were lied to.

> Thing is Daisy they did not get what they bought

I agree - but if they had researched what they were buying they would have known that they would get a dog that could be anything between poodle and labrador. Yes - they may have been lied to, but they didn't do their research either. It doesn't automatically mean that the dog will be untrainable. I doubt they had any idea what they were taking on training wise :(

Apart from his head.  I can see so much Standard Poodle in it.

His head has more of the poodle  nose than a lab

no they didnt do there homework and yes if someone gets the worng breed(s) for them its going to cause problems. Sadly they had lost there bulldog suddenly not long befor getting him and were still greiving and rushed in to getting another in my opyion, they wanted another bulldog but couldnt face getting another one so went for the labradoodle and just beleived everything the breeder told them as they thought they were a good breeder, they soon found out they wernt when they call them up for advice and were basicly told to get lost.

When they take him out knowone wnows what he has in him except lab, then they dont beleave them when they tell them. he was a bit stressed in that photo as i was trying to hold him still for once, he doesnt do still!

> I agree - but if they had researched what they were buying they would have known that they would get a dog that could be anything between poodle and labrador.

But where do you research a crossbreed? There is no breed club with centuries of acquired wisdom to ask, no books - only what you have been told by breeders and what you can find out about the parent breeds which may not (as I said before) bear much relation temperament-wise to the combination you end up with.

The lady local to me with the 'giant' Labradoodle wasn't a novice by any means as she had Danes for a long time and used to show them; but her lad is going to be a very big boy, taller than either of his parent breeds - she doesn't mind that! - but before 6 mths of age she's had to buy a new bigger crate and car crate as he's outgrown them (extra expense), and has had to consult a behaviourist.

he is hyper beond beliefe, has the attention span of a nat, extermaly nurvous, they cant train him and there trainer gave up on him (3 months in to training befor trainer gave up as they couldnt get him to walk to heal for some reason, i managed it with a LOT of patiance and time, but his owner just gives up), and he sheds everywhere. They have said they hate the dog now and from what ive seen the dog doesnt seem to like them either.

No I'm sorry but all I see there is very sad dog and if thats his food bowl in the picture then it looks like he may be on Bakers which will contribute towards him being hyper and shedding so much hair. And if he's living with people who hate him then its hardly going to turn into any ideal partnership any time soon...

Not saying I agree with the designer cross-breeds and price tags.....just looking at the problems from the dog's point of view....

> But where do you research a crossbreed? There is no breed club with centuries of acquired wisdom to ask, no books - only what you have been told by breeders and what you can find out about the parent breeds which may not (as I said before) bear much relation temperament-wise to the combination you end up with

Exactly :) Then why did they buy it ???? If you get a crossbreed/mongrel you have to accept that it is an unknown - which can be half the fun (or challenge) of taking one on. If you aren't up for the challenge then buy a stuffed toy :) :)

Daisy

> Exactly :-) Then why did they buy it ???? If you get a crossbreed/mongrel you have to accept that it is an unknown - which can be half the fun (or challenge) of taking one on. If you aren't up for the challenge then buy a stuffed toy :-) :-)
>
> Daisy

Or a breed that would suit their lifestyle and temperament

no i wouldnt say he is happy there, aperantly when he stayed at my brother house for a week he was a diffrent dog. Realy he needs a new owner who has the time and pacients for him, they get frustrated and give up. Dont know what they feed, ive given them advice in the past and they never take it.
They actualy thought they were a KC breed at one point as he was sold with pedigree papers,untill i told them that they were not a KC breed.

but yes everyone is right, if they had done there research than just beleaving what one person told them they could have ended up getting a more sutible dog.

no i wouldnt say he is happy there, aperantly when he stayed at my brother house for a week he was a diffrent dog. Realy he needs a new owner who has the time and pacients for him, they get frustrated and give up.

Dogs have very simple needs I think....and its people that confuse them.... even some Trainers by the very methods and attitudes....can confuse some dogs even further.

Are they the kind of owners who would read and research anything at all to try and understand him before giving up completely...??

"On Talking terms with dogs -calming signals" : by Turid Rugaas (Quick read....and you can start "reading" and responding to the dog's signals fairly quickly yourself

and also

"Bones would rain from the Sky" : by Suzanne Clothier (deep and insightful....but in places a highly comical read...had me both crying and laughing out loud :) 

Are they the kind of owners who would read and research anything at all to try and understand him before giving up completely...??


to be honist i dont know them that well but from what ive seen i think they have compleatly given up on training him anymore than what he knows allready. but ill pass those book suggestions on when i see them next.

Unique opportunity to own a rare and desirable Pugellois. Dam is a black Pug, Sire is a black Griffon Bruxellois.  Price reflects your serious commitment to owning a dog and ours to provide life-long support

just wanted to re-paste this ad as they have now added the line about 'price reflects commitment' what rubbish, price reflects their greed! price btw is £1500!! and they have 7 pups to sell, well i hope they dont sell

Thing is Daisy they did not get what they bought

They got exactly what they bought - a dog of mixed parentage with no idea of what it would look like and very little idea of it's behavioural traits because nobody can say for sure which parent it will take after in any given area.

I think it's very sad that the owners can't accept it for what it is and don't seem to like it particularly. I think any dog in that situation would have behavioural problems and a lack of training isn't going to help it either :-(

Perhaps I should have said they did not get what they were told they were buying.

On research sadly there are loads of books now for "Labradoodles" just go into PAH and they are the main ones out there, loads of them and just one of true breeds!

Also, although the Labradoodle rescue does obviously service a need, they refer to 'our lovely breed'. Trouble is, if an untruth is repeated often enough, it can be perceived AS the truth!!

it can be perceived AS the truth!!

Just as the idea that cross breeds are healthier even though in most cases they will have been bred from non health tested parents of inferior quality.

Lab. mated to a Poodle will produce a Lab. cross or if you insist a Labradoodle - a cross-breed not a breed.

A Lab.cross x Lab.cross will produce a mongrel - only pure breeds can produce a breed and it takes years of careful breeding to develop a breed, mating two cross-breeds together will never produce a pure breed.

the gullibility of puppy buyers 

never ceases to amaze me,  I kid you not, you are going to think this tale cant possibly be true.... but beleive me, it is true , the vet across the road from me, (I know her best friend)     has a client in a few days ago,   with a Doberman Puppy she had paid 500  for off a chap who met her in a lay by, she brought it into the vets  for its first check up,  she told the vet it was a doberman, , the vets asks are you sure, she says yes  ofcause , I have just paid 500  for it... the vet  had to them inform the woman, that what she had actually got was a  ............GUNIE PIG!!!!   

My own thoughts on this was she deserved to be done ,  for 1, buying from a bloke in a lay-by, and 2, not recognizing a  dog from a guinea pig,   how can anybody be so gullible.

OMG!!! :-D

And wasn't there a story a while back about people in Japan being sold lambs as puppies?

Years ago, there used to be a sense of pride in owning a purebred dog,what s happened? I cant understand it at all.Poor little crossbreed"accidents "were often given away free to a good home.Im not a breeder, and I dont know an awful lot, but I wish there was some way of stopping this irresponsible crossing of purebred dogs, suppose it wont happen though as long as there is money to be made.You breeders must despair,its so wrong.

Seriously LOL about the Guinea Pig/Dobe story..that will be shared by me... Sorry can't stop laughing..

I once spoke to someone who went and put money down on a pugalier and was shocked when she saw that it didnt come with papers for the price they were asking for, she left after putting a deposit down thought about it and rang the breeder who said if she pulled out the deposit wasnt going to be refunded regardless of if she thought it was a KC registered breed or not. The lady who put hte money down also put more money down than just the deposit as she felt pressured into it. Needless to say, she didnt get the dog but a harsh lesson on how they advertise "designer" dogs.

How are members of the G P to know when they insist on referring to these crossbreeds and mongrels as a breed - it is true that they are bred and there for could be called a breed one thinks, but they most certainly not pure bred and are sold without a reference point - buy a crossbreed and you are entering a lottery.

I have a normally intelligent friend who has owned several well bred pedigree dogs during her life time. She insists 'labradoodles' are  a breed and I quote "well they must be, they've been around a long time" Doesn't like it when I refer to mongrels- known as 'labradoodles'
We can all get caught out though- I note in a previous post, I referred to 'labradoodles' with a capital letter and no '    '  thereby unintentionally adding credence!!! Have slapped my wrist :)

to be honist i dont know them that well but from what ive seen i think they have compleatly given up on training him anymore than what he knows allready. but ill pass those book suggestions on when i see them next.

I don't know if any of this will help him Jo but its been haunting me since reading that his owners hate him :( Sometimes if something you say makes a difference to the life of just one dog then it has been worth saying. And if everyone said something on a daily basis that made a difference to the life of just one dog then who knows......??

The way I see a dog....

Level One
Canine - Dog - Anatomy/ - Eg muscles - sinew - ligaments - organs - skeleton etc - all that gives the dog the ability to move freely and experience life.
Canine - Dog - Digestive system/ - Eg -A yorkshire terrier has the same digestive system as a Great Dane - a digestive system designed to eat Raw Meat and Bone and offal.
Canine - Dog - Language/ Eg a dog in Norway will always be able to communicate with a dog in the UK or a dog in Canada and a puppy is already well versed in canine language having learnt it from its mother and its interaction with its litter mates and older dogs.

All of the above three are common to all dogs all over the world. So if things are going amiss we always have the option of going right back to basics ourselves to totally try and understand what a dog is.....to provide it's essential needs and to learn to understand its own language so we might  better be able to communicate with it. Imagine trying to have any meaningful discussion with someone who doesn't speak your language and they don't speak yours. To a dog I think we are a confusing cacophony of noise... tone..... gesture.... body language....unpredictable energy...and they are always trying very hard to decide which part....if any.....of our daily "cacophony" relates to them. (Sometimes they give up too)

Level Two -Breed
Looks - breed specific instincts - drive - motivation - mentality - traits - intelligence - excercise levels - temperament etc
The attributes that we love and admire about our Breeds.....if we have spent a large part of our lives in their company....and the thing that keeps us going back for more :)

Level Three - emotional and spiritual

This is where I think behaviourists/trainers and some owners (and vivisectionists!) will begin to differ. Eg - Is the dog just a mixed bag of "instinct and conditioning"......or is there something more when you look in their eyes...??
(Eg in my opinion a "trainer" with no acknowledgement of Level Three may think its ok to use e-collars and choke chains...! )

I really hope they can learn to love him for what he is Jo and not become another rescue home statistic

Think that the small terrier known as Jack Russell have been around for more than a century but they are a type not a breed, the length of time the crossing of two or more breeds has been practised does not make a breed unless they breed true to type and that there is a type to be bred to, that does not apply to the labradoodle nor and other expensive cross.

These are not !!! cross breeds .. full Chihuahua I have both mum and dad ... dad short haired .... mum long haired pedigree chihuahua not cross !!!!! you can meet both .. both have lovely temperaments .. i am not a breeder both are my own pets and this is their second litter no time wasters please

apart from the annoying thought that this is the 2nd litter they bred, am i right in thinking they are indeed crosses because you cant cross long and smooth? same with dachsies? any different type coat crosses would be mongrels?

When will people understand that if your bitch has a litter you are their breeder, same as if you have a child you are a parent.

Yes indeed technically long and short coats in Chi's and Dachs are different breeds, so their offspring are crossbreeds, though much more predictable (except for coat) than other crosses, and they cannot be registered with the Kennel club.

Looking at Elmo's photo it's probably just as well he hasn't got the other type coat. Talking to 2 groomers last week they are both refusing to groom 'doodle' and 'poo' types as they are just too much in every respect.

that doesnt surprise me WolfieStruppi, i have never seen a doodle type thats groomed! they all look unkempt and scruffy, obv the owners dont know they need the same coat care as a poodle if they do have the curly coat, another thing the 'breeders' dont tell the owners

they wouldnt stick him in a shelter, they had him for about 2 years now i think. I do think its kinda a love hate thing, they allways saying the hate him and what to rehome him but never actualy do it, so i think the must like him more than they let on. Ive tryed doing training with him, took him out and had him lose lead walking and bumpd into them and they didnt seem bothered that i had him walking nicely, think they seem to think thats just who he is and cant be changed so just live with it. when ive been over there and he finaly settles a bit he is a boistrus playfull guy and they do seem to like him then allthough they claim they dont. so they could just be exagerating on how much they dislike him.

You have to be careful not to take things literally sometimes when people say they hate their dog, kids, mother in law, tis' tongue in cheek.

I have often said that Jozi is the bane of my life, Inka is a real brat, but I Love them dearly.

RARE F3 LABRADOODLE X GOLDENDOODLE PUPPIES. ONLY 1 BOY LEFT FROM THIS STUNNING LITTER A beautiful litter of F3 Golden Labradoodle puppies

now i have seen everything 'golden labradoodles!' and £850 each! there should be a law to protect people against this

Agree £850 is a lot to charge for a mongrel.

Agree £850 is a lot to charge for a mongrel.

But people will pay it.

Theres a lady in Llanelli in Wales who breeds Cavachons and sells them for £850 each and she has a waiting list.

ive seen labraoodles for sale for £2000

£850 is a ridiculous price to pay for a mongrel or a crossbreed and £2000 beggars belief! It seems that even in these hard times, a fool and his/her money are soon parted!!

Umm yet another one here at work.  Cav'sxBichon's.  Person told won't have any health problems like the pedigrees!!!

Just printed off the health sheet from the Cav. Club, does anybody know of any problems in Bichon's?

this link me be usefull for you perrodeagua
http://www.bichonhealth.org/

'Goldendoodles' are pretty I must admit - still would not want one, too hyper as a rule. As a groomer I've actually never had to do a doodle yet, the idea fills me with fear as I've heard so many horror stories of the dogs and their coats. If I get an enquiry one day it will be very much on a 'bring him and we'll see what his coat looks like' basis. I did a shih tzu/lhasa/Cavalier a few weeks back, he'd somehow come out looking a lot like a TT! Had the Cavalier habit of shrieking as soon as you touch 2 hairs stuck together, never mind a proper knot!

Well I didnt know that brainless you learn something everyday. At least I know my mongrel is a mongrel just happens to be "made from " 2  kc reg breeds a pom and chihuahua both who are pure bred according to the papers I have of mum and dad never thought she was anything more.

What shocked me last week while doing insurance research for puppy owners was that most insurance companies are now classing labradoodles as a specific breed not just a cross. My thoughts regarding this is that they can charge more than a standard crossbreed/mongrel fee.