Hi,

How much protein would you think is acceptable for a puppy, i.e percentage of protein to carbs, fat , vitamins.

I have heard that if too much is given then the dog can become unmanageable i.e. having far too much energy - has anyone found this in their experience. I thought that body could not store protein and so any excess was broke down in liver to urea and taken from body (in humans anyway)- so if that is the case then nothing should happen because of too much protein because it is broken down etc.

Wondering whether my pup is having too much - he is currently on food with 25% protein - and is a real real handful (at least compared to other dogs we have had) . The other dogs did not get a food with as high a protein (but cannot remember the percentage they were on - think it was about 20%)

which breed ?

I had my Beardie/Borderx on Pedigree Puppy and Junior changed to Advance and had to change back again as he was hyper on it.
Anne

Depending on the breed of your puppy I would have thought the 25% protein was about average.

What you have to remember is that the puppy is still growing and needs the protein to do that, your other dogs may well have existed on 20% but I assume they were then adults and that is about a normal subsistence protein rate for adult pet dogs.

Even my BT's who are quite protein intolerant have 27.5% protein as puppies until they are at least 6-8 months old.

Jayne

What breed and what age and do you give treats as well. Jackie

hi Jackie and zoebeveridge

he is a doberman aged 17 weeks - I should probably mention that he is on arden grange working dog food - which is 25% protein . I am beginning to worry that I am feeding him wrong food , i.e. working dog food (my husband as working GSD) and because the food has only 1% less than IAMS puppy food and the ingredients look the same i.e percentages of vits and ash etc i though that why not feed my dog for free as husband always has too much food for his dog.

i note on other thread that you can actually speak to nutritionist at arden grange so may do this although I feel that they would say a definite no no to me feeding this so that they would make money by me buying another type of their food.

I must say though that his coat is lovely and silky and shiny and he no longer has the runs as he as in past on this food whethr for working dogs or not BUT he is v v v lively (but not in nice way - always snapping and jumping - but probably a dobe thing - with them being dominant dogs and him trying to become top dog)

p.s. he does have some treats - ie. crusts from kids butties and little fat of chops - that sort of thing but he doesn't get much because the other dog has to get half of scraps from the four people in our family

Karen
Although feed is classed as "working dog feed" I wouldn't worry because each manufacturer is allowed to manufacture 1 feed as being suitable for working dogs as food for working dogs is VAT free.:) So it just means that if you use a working dog feed it's usually cheaper since it's VAT free.
Hope this makes sense :)
Dot

Hi Karen
We've got a Dobe 14 mths and I know you've had Dobes before so forgive me if I'm teaching you how to suck eggs --as such :D ( not that I'm trying to teach )
at 17 weeks Murph was jumping and nipping and generally hyper,we knocked down his protein at about 12 months ( but he still gets bits so that kicks it up again )
Hope this is making sense !
I think alot is his age ,breed ,and like you say going for top spot --I'm not anexpert by any long stretch of the imagination ,thats how I found my dog to be :)
HTH
Liz

Thanks Liz and Dot.

Dot - didn't think about the VAT aspect on the food and was thinking that they put some extra ingredient in to keep the dogs working good and hard - silly me - lol.

Liz - nice to know someone else been there and done that. will persevere with the high protein - until fully grown and then if still a handful will like you try a lower protein food. Our other dog lived for 13yrs and 8months and died just short of two years ago - so my memory has probably blurred in respect of his puppyhood trials and tribulations.

Does anyone know if it is proven that a high protein diet causes dogs to be a handful and whether a low protein diet makes them more serene?

Besides making them a handful (if this is correct) does anyone know if there is any other physical symptom which would show that he was having too much protein, e.g runs.

He hasnt got runs now , but am just interested.

Thanks
Karen.

It is a fact that high protein CAN cause a dog to go hyper. I think generally that the dog is a bit that way anyway and the high protein level just takes the dog over the top. Certainly I stay well clear of it even with very young puppies, preferring to bring my puppies along slowly. I don't want too much rapid growth going on before the frame can handle it. Hyper activity can also be linked to the ingrediance so a chance can sometimes help.

As to other symptoms, I would have said such things as stool formations would have been more a matter of formulation of the food rather than protein levels. Skeletal abnormalities could possibly occur if the level was far too high but I would imagine no food manufacture would ever go to that level.

Regards, John

Hi Karen
we fed Murph on pedigree puppy-then jnr large breed and he did well on it but he was erm........exuberent:D
a few people ;) made comment about his levels of energy !but we were worried about knocking down the protien too early so like I said we did it at about 12 months and............................he's still exhuberent:D
Liz
Dot -I didn't realise about the working food either I thought it was something in it !! :rolleyes:

Hi Karen

The main growing problem caused by feeding is panosteitis (Pano, Wandering lameness) which is a very painful condition and one of the reasons your breeder used the original diet he was on to try to avoid as it seems to be common in young males :)

I understand certain food can make dogs more lively but a young Dobermann is a lively animal by its nature - Harry's aunt was known as Zebedee (amongst the more polite names) until she was nearly two because she seemed unable to keep her feet on the floor, although mouthing was never a problem. Now you would never know she had been such a pain.

If you speak to BethN or do a search on Mockodile you will see the trials of another young Dobe owner :D

Christine

Protien is the building block of all life (built up of Amino Acids) You Should buy some form of Amino Acids from a helth food store i.e Holland and Barett Of the Free Form Brance chain verity.
And In capsuel form.
Then Before bed let the dog have the capsuel of if he/ she will not eat it mix it into some weak chicken stock.
Do this while your puppy is Stuill young i.e less than 18 mnts in the case of large breeds.
I breed German Shep Pups and Labs And i have considreble backing by diff Vet's practersise to say that this will give you dog the best start to life .
the suplement can also be given when older about twice a week at bed time.
This is the time when you dog will sleep and regenerate it's muscles and hair ect.....
Many food are good dry food and canned and as one reader said check the cntence and also the effect on stool formation :) thanks hope you dog is fit and well and continues to be so . from Rick Kirkby

I am very weary of using supliments of any kind. Dog foods are balanced and to me, any addition is likely to unbalance the diet. It's just one of the many places I differ to a lot of people. :)

Regards, John

I agree John, I grew and survived by being fed a healthy, probably fairly balanced diet by my mum and my dogs have done the same. Although I feed a raw (but varied) diet I don't use lots of what I consider are unnecessary supplements whose effects are not proven and could even counteract or unbalance what is naturally available in the food.

Christine

A dog, like us does not need each meal to be balanced as such. It's the overall balance over a period of time that matters. I'm sure the Cornflakes and milk I have for breakfast is not a totally balanced diet but added to everything else I eat over the course of a week or so then It contributes to the overall balance. A wild animal will eat what it finds at any particular time and again (Hopefully) achieves a long term balance.

I guess it's strange to some of the younger ones on here but back in the days before specialised dog food our dogs lived by and large, without any problems. My old dog lived an almost illness free life until he died at 16 years old and most of his diet was table scraped.

Regards, John