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Topic Dog Boards / Health / Big dillema for me, any thoughts welcome.
- By LucyLu [gb] Date 31.01.11 16:50 UTC Edited 31.01.11 16:52 UTC
Hi..
My seven year old male 'Scottie' has a few problems and i am in a dilemma about the right course of action to take.

He has a chronic bacterial skin problem which i treat with weekly baths, herbs and careful diet. He is often uncomfortable and itchy..In the last year he has developed diabetes and he has an injection twice a day, he isn't really bothered by the needle though. He has become blind over the last 6 months though this is due to retinal deterioration and not his cataracts which developed with the diabetes. He has become indifferent to where he goes to the toilet now, even though i regularly put him in the garden..I think the blindness has disorientated him.
My main problem is with his excercise.He loves his walks and going out with me and my other 2 Scotts. He has always disliked the lead and since about 5 years ago he started refusing to walk on the lead, now that he is blind and it would be wonderful to use a lead he is just as stubborn with it..So we go in the car to the field because we live in a town, but in the field he will not follow my voice..i don't know why..mostly he turns around in circles, quite upset and disorientated i think..The best bet for him is a narrow track..This Saturday i took the dogs to long farm track with steep banks on either side..He LOVED it,,running and running, i cannot  do this every day though. Each time i leave the house without him he howles. He is becoming unhappy, he sleeps all day and is upset each time i go around the block with the others.

I have friends who think it is cruel to keep him alive, today i am having these thought as well..My problem is that it will be a terrible loss to put him to sleep..he is at the stage in his life where he is just existing, i wonder how horrid it must be to be blind?

Any thoughts would be very gladly recieved...Thanks.
- By Nova Date 31.01.11 17:20 UTC
I truly believe that there comes a stage when you are keeping them going more for you than for them - if you think you are reaching this stage then I think you are right to decide that as he is no longer enjoying his life then the kindest thing you can do is put an end to his suffering, it is I think the last and most important service we do for our beloved friends.
- By LJS Date 31.01.11 17:42 UTC
Have you thought about a long line as it will give him so freedom but will allow you to keep control of him ?
- By Jocelyn [gb] Date 31.01.11 17:43 UTC
if your dog is not in any physical pain then don't worry about him being blind. You said he loved the track so he is still haveing quaity of life.

To a human blindness is a terrible thing because it is our main sence. that might be why people are saying you are cruel to keep him alive, they are looking at it from a human point of view,  but the sence of smell is more important to a dog.
He will enjoy his walks because he can smell his enviroment, he will know as all dogs do, who has been past, what dog was there, if it was comeing in season or going off, he can smell rabbits and cats, he will know it all threw his nose not his eyes.

A dog see's the world though his nose, as we see it though our eyes.

He is only seven and has only just become blind, so he needs time to adjust to it, don't move the furniture in the house so he learns where it is.

Why don't you try a harness, for his walks,  and you could do some tracking with him for fun.

My friend got an old blind dog from the dogs home, one of the other dogs used to take the lead and lead her on walks. She had two more happy years with my friend. She loved people and used to go to them, when people saw she was blind she got lots of fuss which she loved. She died in her sleep one afternoon.

Don't give up him its early days.
- By Goldmali Date 31.01.11 17:47 UTC
I was going to say a long line as well, a very long one that can just trail and be stepped on if needs be. I know somebody who does this for their very elderly small dog that wanders off in confusion otherwise. Worth a try if nothing else.
- By mastifflover Date 31.01.11 17:59 UTC
I agree re. the thought of using a long-line. It is defiantely worth a try.
It may also be worth attatching it to a chest-harness rather than his collar as he may not be happy about the lead attatched to his neck rather than the restriction of the lead itself? (if that makes any sense?)
- By scooby_doo [gb] Date 31.01.11 18:16 UTC
I agree with nova !

Hope you can find a solution, Just remember he will always be in your heart !!
- By LucyLu [gb] Date 31.01.11 18:33 UTC
Thanks a lot for your help which i really appreciate.

Jess is very slow, imagine Eeyore..
If he had a harness or collar attached to a long lead it would make no difference., he would move at the same speed..
Late every night i take him out with no lead at all and i walk next to him, there is no need for a collar or lead. He delights in smells, in half an hour he will cover a few yards and is quite happy because he knows i am there. The problem is in going for a walk..he will not follow me, if i walked away he would howl and so he cannot come for the walks he loves with my others. This is the main problem.He has been blind for a little while now and he seems to get more disorientated except that he is very clear when the rest of his pack leave the house without him, this he is very clear about. The reason he did so well on the track on saturday was that he knew it was a track, he is very track savvy!..I need to live at the top of a track.

Thanks again.
- By freelancerukuk [ru] Date 31.01.11 18:52 UTC
Lucylu,

I think you may have to bite the bullet and get some help in retraining Jess to accept both walking with you and walking on a lead.

Dislike of leads etc.. does seem to be a bit of a terrier thing and, in the nicest possible way, it sounds like Jess has got you well trained into doing things as he sees fit- that's obstinate terriers for you. Alas he is only a dog and cannot fix this new problem of blindness so he just wants to carry on in the way he knows but he is newly blind and probably panics and that will interfere with his ability to rely on his other senses to get his bearings.

I would get a behaviourist to help you train him to follow you and to walk on a lead/long line. If he likes his grub, it might be possible to use high value tidbits as a lure so he starts to get used to the idea of walking with a lead/line on and learning to trust that he is secure this way and can rely on you. I think it will take time and patience because you've got to 6 years worth of him doing things his way. That's why I'd get a behaviourist, you'll need help figuring out how to get him motivated to move in the direction you want. I'd say think of it as teaching a puppy to walk on lead/puppy recall- but harder! You'll have to start in little chunks and slowly build up, keeping it all very positive.

7 is far too young to be PTS. I'm sure with time and patience and expert help, you can give this boy his life back.

Please let us know how you get on.  
- By Harley Date 31.01.11 18:59 UTC
For me my decision would be based on the quality of his life. I know he really enjoyed himself on his walk along the track but you said that this can't happen very often. However much he enjoys walking off lead with you - which I assume is alongside a road but my assumption could be wrong - I personally don't think it is a safe thing to do never mind the fact that it is against the law on a public road. My worry would be that he is more likely to be spooked by something due to his lack of sight and end up running into the road with disasterous results.

If his walks are the only source of pleasure he has now then he isn't really having a great deal of quality time. I would give the long line a try but would also have to weigh up how much of his life is spent in confusion and how much time is good quality time. Taking an action that is best for our dogs is never the easiest one for us :-(
- By corgilover [gb] Date 31.01.11 19:07 UTC
i know someone with a dog born blind it is a rescue and it is walked with her others but attached to the most patient using a hound training couple (a short length of lead the has a leader clip of both ends and it is attached to flat buckled collars on the dogs and the other dog is its guide dog might work for yours might not but might be worth a try
- By LJS Date 31.01.11 19:13 UTC
Lizzie very good point but I do think trying the long lead with some help on how to encourage him may help. Has he a bond with one of the other dogs as I know a person who has a blind Great Dane and a weimerana (sp) and the wiem is her guide dog and keeps an eye on her and guides her along. Maybe try and take one of the sighted dogs out with him on a double lead as maybe it could start to give him back some confidence ?
- By LJS Date 31.01.11 19:15 UTC
Corgilover posted at the same time about the double lead !
- By LucyLu [gb] Date 31.01.11 19:32 UTC
Thankyou again..It has been very useful for me to write this post and read your replies. It is very difficult in j's case to weigh up quality of life and know the right thing to do.
I don't think his lead aversion is behavioural, his reaction to direction is to do the opposite, even directing him through a door sets up a response in him to go the other way, i suspect it is a neurological problem, i am also worried about his hearing as he responds to me when he senses me rather than hears me from a further distance.
Writing this has been useful for me to focus and evaluate j but is very difficult to describe his problems..A GP friend of mine thinks his behaviour is quite autistic or high achieving aspergers due to witnessing his awareness of me getting a tablet for him to take!
Thankyou for the help..I will see how things go in the near future..
- By LucyLu [gb] Date 31.01.11 19:35 UTC
Thankyou very much for the double lead idea which was posted durring my writing my last.
- By freelancerukuk [ru] Date 31.01.11 20:24 UTC
Just to be clear, has the problem with direction always been a factor in his lead aversion or is that since he has become blind? In other words, do you think he has always had some kind of neurological issue or is this recent?
- By LJS Date 31.01.11 20:41 UTC
Also you mentioned his diet so can you detail what food he is fed plus any supplements you give hi
:-)
- By LucyLu [gb] Date 31.01.11 21:05 UTC
His lead aversion has always been connected with his directional response/neurological problem..It became more exagerated as he aged..he reacts similarly to being stroked or touched....
He never seeks affection and never has done and can spend hours alone but i think he senses the company..If he is left alone for longer than a few hours he has been known to push his head against my leg when i have returned which is very special!

For his skin problem i have tried all sorts of diets and exclusions..When his skin is at it's worse he is covered in stinky scabs...The food he is best on is 'Orijen' and from 'Dorwest' herbs i give him Garlic and fenurgreek plus vegetable(herb) tablets..This along with anti grease bacterial shampoo from the vets..His skin is a chronic bacterial problem and i find keeping him clean and having a cereal free diet helps the most..

Thanks very much for your interest.
- By freelancerukuk [ru] Date 31.01.11 21:37 UTC
Ah, poor lad. Your situation is much more complex than I realised. It sounds as though you have done sterling work in what you have done with him so far and he obviously loves and relies on you.

Has he ever had a formal diagnosis for the problem with being touched/direction?  I understand these things can be hard to explain. I wonder also what your vet thinks about his quality of life. It might help for you to talk to the vet about your concerns in that regard or even go for a second opinion- they won't necessarily comment unless you raise the subject.

I think it is only those who can actually see your dog and the whole picture that can give you sound advice on this. It does sound as though there are a lot of different and difficult factors and of a complexity that I would hesitate to offer more advice on this.
- By LucyLu [gb] Date 31.01.11 22:20 UTC
Yes, he is complex boy,,my vet seems rather baffled by him too..I had been thinking durring this post that i should have a discussion with my vet, as you say with someone who knows him.
Thanks very much for your time.
Topic Dog Boards / Health / Big dillema for me, any thoughts welcome.

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