hi all ,
My pup has been treated with "Homoeopathic complete canine vacc.+KC Nosode 30c "
i was told that this would innoculate my dog to full effect , and that she would require regular jabs but for paperwork purpose's only ( homoeopathic vacc's are not recognised widely etc).
Can any one explain further? only several people on another board have said otherwise?

Homeopathic vacc's are being accepted at more and more places, especially when accompanied with the results of any titer tests you have done.
I can't see the point in vaccinating homeopathically and then getting the regular vacc's so you have the correct 'paperwork'...kinda defeats the object, huh?

the only proof your dog is immune from parvo etc is to take a blood test and check the titre count----it has been said that with homeopathic stuff you dont get a count-it works in other ways :rolleyes:
id not rely on it, and would suggest if youre tempted tohave your dog blood tested, -then youd know for sure

Barney is due his second lot of vaccines - asked vet what she thought and she said that, although she does not believe in over vaccinating, she strongly believes he should have his second lot done. So have taken her advice and he is having them on 9 Jan when Molly is taken in for spaying.
Gina :)

I completely agree , however , Ella had allready recieved all but one of her Homoeopathic Nosodes wen we got her~the breedr had said that she would be fine to go out etc~vet said otherwise.I wasnt sure what to do.I added a post on a topic about excersise (sp) and said how i take her to a rec field near me and was told by other posters that i shouldnt do without her having her jabs~i was at a loss! breeder said it was ok ( i have MUCH respect for my breeder and tend to go strictly by her guide) but vet and posters state otherwise.
The breeder did say that she thought it may be possible the pups would be required to have regular jabs as many vets wont accept the Homoeopathic ones.
?!*/!
i duuno !! i just want a happy healthy well socialised dog!
I was a bit upset people thought i was being flippant taking her out though , i know shes only 10 weeks , but i HAVE read up on the Nosodes she's had , and have taken breeders advice~and many people do rely entirely on the nosodes alone to innoculate their dogs...yet i was looked down on a little !
They are a complete vaccination , not just for safeguarding against other animals etc.
Zoe x

Hi Zoe,
At no stage have I looked down on you!!! I was simply giving you my oppion, based on personal experiences. In regards to the breeder, I am sure she had advised you to talk to your vet about any medication she has supplied, it just seems a little unwise to me for her to say take her out as she is not a vet.
I know you have been waiting eagerly for your puppy and have done your best to ensure she settles in well, that is why I THOUGHT I could share my oppion with you and you wouldn't take it the wrong way.
We all learn by our mistakes, like my sister did, that is why I past this information on. Once again what you decide to do is upto you not me!!!
Best Wishes
ILOVEDOGS

ILOVEDOGS
I am sorry that it seemed i was angry at you ~ in truth i am just a little worried myself at all the conflicting views ive herd/read.
I must say that you did give your opinion , and not only that you were allways nice with it.At no stage did you sound at all nasty .
Im just not sure what to do now , i was told that as she's been given "Nosodes" as a complete vaccine then she actually neednt have any jab what so ever,these where given as an alternative to the jabs by the breeder ( she's been having them since 4 wks).However the breeder did say to discuss with my vet if the vet recognise's the Homoeopatic vaccine , as some practises do not.
I did just that and the vet said that Ella was at present fully innoculated against everything that regular jabs vaccinate against , due to the Homoeopathic nosodes , however , should we need to kennel her at any stage , these would not be recognised and so she suggested giving vacc's on top.
So i could have just taken her out with only the Homoeopathic treatment , only i decided to have the jabs done so that we would not incurr any problems down the line regarding paperwork etc.
The vet said that whilst she regularly would advise pups dont go out till a week after jab 2 , in Ella's case she would say that it should be fine as the Homoeopathic jabs are protection enough in themselves.She suggested that we take caution for the first few days after jab 1 as she may feel a little poorly.
I am very new to the concept of Homoeopathic vaccinations , but i have read up a little on line,and yes , it does seem silly to do both , one would presume either or~but the documentation Ella came with for the homoeopathic's just would not be accepted , and so she would need jabs before kennelling etc.
I know the initial reason for Homoeopathic Vacc's is to protect dogs from dangers that innoculation jabs can cause~and so to opt to homoeopathicly treat yet STILL use them is a riddiculous thought!
but i had no choice that she was allready innoculated homoeopathicly ( not that i am questioning the breeders motives for a moment) and i would allways come accross people that will not accept Ella is protected enough with the Homoeopathic treatment.SO , there we have it ! double the protection!
ILOVEDOGS i hope you have taken no offence to the way i responded , certainly no mallice was ment on my part , i am but a little confused , and worried for the well being of my " overdossed" doggy !
Zoe x

<<<and many people do rely entirely on the nosodes alone to innoculate their dogs>>>

I didn't realise you were talking about a puppy, Zoe :o
As much as I believe in and use the nosodes, *I* would always get the initial (traditional) vaccinations done for pups. I then use nosodes annually for their boosters :)

That is what I learnt from this site too that the pups should be vaccinated firstly and then nosodes could be used (if you wanted to use them of course) afterwards. My vet has said Barney should have a second lot and she is not in favour of over use of vaccines so I am going with what she has said. Will be interesting what she advises next year but I do trust her.
Gina

i wasnt trying to say that you do Jaq , just what i have been told by the vet and breeder :D
However , as i bought a dog that had allready been given the homoeopathic vaccinations it was hard to decide what to do next , reading up on them i found it was suggested NOT to vaccinate on top.Its not like I chose to homoeopathicly vacc then decided to get jabs on top!
read these: www.faireepoms.com
www.natural-akita.com
these tend to think that anual boosters are unnecesary and simply a ploy from vaccine companys ~ they say its dangerous to vaccinate dogs each year~as we dont do with our kids? i dunno , just trying to do the best for my baby

I realised that, Zoe, but I forgot to say that I do know people who use the nosodes totally...I'm just not that brave ;)

<<<a ploy from vaccine companys ~ they say its dangerous to vaccinate dogs each year>>>

I agree. That's where the titers come in handy. You can then vaccinate just for what your dog has low immunity too, if it's low at all :)

P.S... I once rescued a GSD at 4 months of age. I wasn't sure whether he'd had vacc's or not but decided that I'd rather risk over vaccinating with the traditional vacc's than him getting parvo or such. This was before nosodes/titers had become fashionable but I'd do the same again if I had too ;)

Problem is we do revaccinate our kids, and ourselves! The kids get boostered before they start school, and often when they go to secondary school. Tetanus is boostered every 10 years, unless your job involves a lot of contact with animals or soil, when it is done every 3 years. The main reason (apart form cost to NHS of course) that the others aren't reboostered is that as we get older we are more likely to survive an attack of the disease! None of the vaccinations gives lifelong immunity - those of us who were smallpox vaccined as children now know that the immunity only lasted 5 years!

And I thought that the recent BBC programme scientifically debunked homoeopathy?

Actually Zoe if you check out Intervet site who make the nobivac vaccines, they now recommend that for all but lepto and Para influenza that you booster every three years.

The site is www.intervet.com/products I think

theresa

Thanks for that link Theresa, I am confused on the lepto revaccination, Its confusing cos you read so much conflicting advice. Next dog due a booster is Decoy, so i will ask at the vets what he is recommending now. I can remember someone writing into one the dog mags 'your dog' or 'dogs today' giving details of where you can get titres done, sent off to a lab and how much it would cost, of course you would have to get the vet to take the bloods etc, or can you just get the vet to do all of this now. Julie:)

Hi Julie, you can have your vet take the blood from your dogs & have it sent to Glasgow University Diagnostic Services for titring. Heres the link.
http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/diagnostics/companion/index.htm
Christine, Spain.

Thanks Christine! Julie:)

Sorry Zoe, Just picked up this thread! - If you have gone down the homeopathic route, then most people using Nosodes don't have the vaccinations done as well, the reason for using homeopathic vaccine is an alternative to the shots at the vets, because of adverse reactions, etc. You are right in saying what your breeder has told you, a lot of people at my obedience club only use nosodes and their pups go out straight away, some have gone out at 7 weeks. However, I don't know of any that do both, it kind of defeats the object of going homeopathic. A lot of kennels will not accept Nosode vaccinated dogs, a friend of mine who has a boarding kennels locally, decided she would, but then discovered her insurance did not cover her if she did! So the question as to whether you feel it is safe to take your pup out is dependant on whether you are confident that the Nosodes offer your pup protection, if not, then there is little point is using them. Homeopathic vs Vaccination is a contentious (sp.) issue. The only way you can tell if it has worked is to have the blood titres done. Also I thought that there were no Nosodes for Parvo and Lepto or maybe it is one of the others? Christine Spain knows an awful lot about homoepathic vaccine and she will be able to help, if she sees this thread. I have my dogs vaccinated at the vets, I wasn't going to with Cookie, I was looking into using Nosodes, but we had an outbreak of distemper here in the seals, so a few people who swore by Nosodes actually went and got their dogs vaccinated. It really is personal choice zoe, but I can see no benefit in doing both, Maybe as Jackie has said, instead of the annual boosters, if you are worried about over vaccination use nosodes in the future. HTH Julie:)
ps sorry again Zoe, just read your reply above, the breeder stated the homeopathic nosodes. Perhaps you should have a chat to her, if you are worried.

thanks all.
When we collected Ella she had allready had her homoeopathic nosodes ( barr one we gave this week ) so it was too late not to vaccinate her that way , ideally i would not have chose both , i was told she'd be ok to go out etc.But i too had herd that the homoeopathic vacc's were not vaccinateing against Parvo or Lepto~so when the vet suggested them on top for kennels etc i thought it could do no harm.I certainly hope it will do no harm.
Its horrible , because i dont want to risk her in any way , but was told she was FULLY protected...then read she may not be...then told i could vaccinate on top...then that doing so was not advisable...then that she should be socialised asap.......ARGH!!!

My homeoopathic nosode 30x covers, parvo,hard paw, distemper, lepto spirosos,hepatitis, I have used it for 8 years, all my pups are covered by nosodes before leaving my premises, it is up to the individual owners whether they wish to use normal vaccs as well, my homoeopathic vet Mr Charles Barrett says this will do no harm, but is a waste of money as the pups are already covered, in case you are interested his web address is www.betic.com

That's the same as I use, Charm :)

I have noticed that Zoe is giving hers in tablet form, my nosode is in crystals, which are given twice a day for 7 days, didnt know it came in tablet form.

Hi Charm, yes I had nosodes from 2 different places & they were both in tablet form, don`t think it makes any difference tho, not sure now.
Christine, Spain.

thanks for that.As i say , that is what i was told~but then reading how many others wouldnt rely on homoeopathic treatment in pups i thought it wouldnt hurt to do that on top~just in case! i say tablets~they are very small clear snail egg sized..could be considered crystalls.Not sure.
She has a whole capsule sized pot full~for boosters etc

Hi Zoe, why don`t you give your dogs breeder a ring & have a chat with them? They started the nosodes so I`m sure they would be the best people to explain it all to you. Some people do give their dogs certain nosodes before & after the vacc`s to limit any adverse reactions or damage to the immune system the vacc may cause. You could find a homeopathic vet & have a chat with him for more info on this. You can have your pup titred to see the level of antibodies she has to parvo/ditemper/adno but even if she has a low level it doesn`t mean she will catch any of the diseases. It`s a pretty complex area & unfortunately there are no guarantees with any of the vacc you give but if you have a look under the thread "barf & worms" you should find some links on vacc & nosodes that you can read up on but you really do need to read up on it before you make your mind up. Heres a link in the meantime for you, hope it hepls
http://www.abap.org/nosodes.htm
http://www.irishwolfhounds.org/site.htm Scroll down to vaccines, there is a lot of info on this site about all kinds.
Christine, Spain.

Zoe
I put a post on here about 5 weeks ago about a bad reaction our lab (Amber) had from her 12 week jab. I took her to the vets in the afternoon and was back down there with her around 8pm that night. She'd been sick a few times since she got home and then her eyes starting giong very read around the outside, then her whole face starting puffing up. She looked awful, she looked like a Sharpei.
It was very frightening, she ended up staying in overnight which was one of the worse night's we've ever had. Luckily she was back to normal the next day. My husband took photo's of her and we told the vet that if need be we can send them to him so that he can send them to the vaccination company as proof. The vet haven't charged us for her stay and medication (she had a steroid injection as soon as I took her back down there), they sent the bill to the vaccination company.
Anyway, we are now in a dilemma as to what to do next year. Was it just a one off, or will she be prone to reactions from injections in future? We'll cross that bridge next year when her booster is due.
I don't want to frighten you, but go back and have a look at my original thread and see what I was adviced.
Lisa

Hi Lisa, did you or your vet ever make an adverse reaction report out?
Christine, Spain.

I don't know Christine. Unfortunately we didn't see the vet when we picked her up the next day so were only told that we didn't have to pay cos they would be getting the money back from the vaccination company. Thing is, we were so pleased to have her back that we didn't even think of asking any questions, silly really.
Lisa

Hi Lisa, please could you check after the hols or whenever you have the time. It`s really important to make the report. I`m wondering what the vacc company are paying the vet for, is it for the treatment the vet had to give after the injection & did you have to pay for the vacc itself? To my knowledge vacc copmanies will only pay out under real pressure. If they have payed your vet they are admitting the vacc caused the reaction. And not silly at all! the last thing on anyones mind when something like this happens is asking questions. Glad she`s better now tho :)
Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine
I will speak to the vets in the next few days to see if they can give me an update after we took Amber home.
I did pay for the vaccination, but the vet didn't charge me for the steroid injection or her overnight stay.
Will let you know the outcome. If you like, I can email you the picture of what she looked like before I took her back down to the vets. Email me at home (the one listed on here is my work email address and I won't be there until Thursday) and I will send you them over.
Home address: pete.salo@ntlworld.com
Many thanks
Lisa

Hi Lisa, I`ll email you later OK. Your vet needs to let you know if he made a suspected adverse reaction report to yhe Vet. Medical Directorate.
Emma has a point & don`t know if you know or not, but once an animal has had a reaction to a vaccine the chances of it happening again are quite high,sorry to have to tell you this. Also any litter mates may be at risk so you may like to inform her breeder. Anyway it`s something that you can think about after the hols & you don`t have to worry about right now.
Christine, Spain

Lisa,
I have only just started to research vaccinations fully, but if i where you, there is absolutely no way i would take that dog for any more vaccinations!
Emma

Zoe in no way did I feel you were being flippant. All I was trying to do was give you some advice on how I deal with puppies over many many years of breeding.

I said that I did not agree with your vet and thought that taking a 10 week old puppy out to a recreation ground to play was not something I would do, regardless of what vaccines (i.e. homeopathic had been given). Particularly as after I mentioned the fact that foxes carry a lot of canine diseases you have said that you have a fox den at the back of your garden near the recreation ground.

I personally have no faith in the homeopathic vaccines, as having spoken at length with my vets their opinion is that the homeopathic vaccines have yet to be tested by an outbreak of any of the diseases we vaccinate against. I would rather be safe than sorry.

I have no problem in normal vaccination as puppy's and then homeopathic as boosters, but wouldn't have the courage to rely on them for puppies, and that is speaking as someone who has had a puppy react very badly to normal vaccines.

Regards

Jayne

also as just reading on another thread that parvo's still alive and kicking------if you want to know for sure, have her blood tested, and for those who use homeopathic nosodes, have any of you had titre counts done to prove the dog is infact immune???

just read that myself Linda, and the same thought came to mind similar age of puppy.

Jayne

i think there are fores and agaist in both i have injection done but my freind sweres by homoeopathic and always uses her dogs go out and have never got parvo its upto the person i think both work but i know she has to start at one dose and slowly decrese by week then month ect were as i would forget to give ect so there no good for mine.lol
each to there own.
sandy.

I have had Cavaliers for over twenty years and have always vaccinated with the regular shots and boosted each year. However some regulars will remember that earlier in 2002 my boy Toddy developed a serious reaction after his last booster and finished up with a dreadful eye ulcer caused by the hepetitis part of the vaccine. I had been thinking for some time about changing over to homeopathic vaccine and had actually got the tablets. I just thought that since I had a young bitch to give her booster and the vet was offering a special deal (£10.00 for the booster plus health check) that I would take the rest of the clan, what a big mistake - costs in the end escalated to almost £400. Anyway we are today starting our homeopathic program and in future will only traditionally vaccinate puppies and even then I will be watching with great care.

Incidentally I do know of Cavalier folk who have vaccinated older stock who had slight heart trouble and then lost them in a matter of weeks after the condition worsened.

I don't kennel my Cavaliers so don't have the need for 'official documentation' and unless it becomes necessary at shows to prove that dogs are protected, it is not a problem. ( Cat shows vet each and every cat - maybe good, maybe bad but they don't appear to have as many infections after their shows as we do).

I had until recently always used convential vaccinations and boosters for my dogs.
I have a 3year old bitch and her litter brother both were normal happy puppies in the nest until both received their pupy jabs.
The bitch then went on to develope a head shake and started to get very very nervous.
After consolting the vet I was told it was an underdeveloped cerebelem{cant spell} part of the brain and that she should grow out of it.
They both had their boosters at 15 months and the head shake was still there.
After I did alot of reserch I have discovered that this type of brain damage has been linked with being a side affect of vacciantion but vets FAIL to warn you that there are any risks.
I have discovered quite a few people now who vaccinate using homeopathic nosodes and I myself will NEVER NEVER give any of my dogs conventional vaccinations again.
Their is now a vet at my practice who practises homeopathy which helps but I do not get my vaccines through them as they slap on a HUGE consultation fee so I get mine through a a practising homeopath friend and cost.

Hi Alice & Emma sorry to hear about your dogs, but unfortunately not a lot of vets give these warnings. It states very clearly that vaccines should only be given to healthy dogs. Can I ask both of you, did your vet or you fill in a suspected adverse reaction form?
Christine, Spain.

Unfortunatly there is no proof the vaccination did this to her and to be honest I havnt spoken to the vets about it as I do have a VERY good relationship with thenmand dont want to pee them off, I get away with alot from them especially one of the nurses who gives me drugs when I ask for them without the need for a consultation{only when I KNOW the problem} and the cost of a consultation.
I was given a tub of rymadol for my very sick golden FOC by a nurse when I asked for some..... :) :){repeat prescription I may add}

In this day and age, I'd be careful of who, when and where you relate this information too!

Hi Emma, it hasn`t anything to do with your vet! It is called *suspected* & no proof is necessary & you can fill the form in yourself. It shouldn`t upset your vet in the least & vets are actually *actively encouraged* to fill them in by their RCVS. I hear of so many of these things happening but if no body, or vey few, report them then they are going to continue to happen & also the statistics are all wrong because of so few reports. Please consider talking to your vet about it or do it yourself otherwise we can never expect to get a proper study into reactions.
Christine, Spain.

Hi Alice.

I have had my 2 vaccinated for their puppies jabs but not their boosters.

I am trying to decide which avenue to go down. I have not started the Nosades or anything else as yet , I am still just reading and researching. I do not have a Homoeopathic vet near by so struggling to get professional advice but do not want to leave it too long neither.

If you can give me any advice I would be grateful

Pam

Hi Pam

I use a mail order service for all things Homeopathic and have found Ainsworth's in London superb. They also offer advice and sell various books. They do add a small postage charge but orders are usually here the day after I order.

Try this site for help John Lee Ainsworths Homeopat...
E-mail Address(es):
mark.ainsworths@ukonline.co.uk

Alice

Thanks Alice,

I have bought stuf from the before a while back and they were very good. O wo;; go have a browse again thank you :-)

Pam