Hi all

I just wondered what your advice would be on this subject. Reggie was at vet today. We went to get some more wormer so they wanted to check his weight etc etc for correct dose. Anyway the vet informed me that she could only feel one testicle at the moment. She wants to check him in a couple of months and if still not down to castrate.
Have any of you experienced this. What are the dangers if left? I in my silliness forgot to ask.
I know from reading various posts a fair few CDers are not keen on castration but I just wondered in this scenario what would people do if it was their dog. How long would you wait to see if it will appear. I have to say castration was not something I was about to start thinking about but not sure now!
Many Thanks
R M
Oh by the way Reggie is now four months

I think at 4 months it still has time to decend.  Have a word with his breeder, they will probably have the best advice knowing the breed etc.

Discussed this with my vet as Zuma only had 1 down at 15month, she was quite happy to leave it till he had finished growing physically and mentally and she would then remove JUST the one that wasn't down. He had abdominal surgery for unrelated thing at 18 mth and it was removed at same time (only 1 GA etc) but most people advise leaving it till 2years ish. I think there have been posts where people have said  their dog has had 2nd come down up to a year old.

hi there, a pup i bred still only had one descend by 2 yrs old and as he was in a pet home they took him to be neutered in case the undescended one turned cancerous.the vet took both away but had to dig around to find the hidden one,there was no way it would have descended on its own.b.t.w,he still mounts their other dog and cats regularly although it wasnt the reason they had him done. regards,roy.

At four months he has plenty of time.  Don't let anyone rush you into having him done too early.

I had a boy with only one descended, but wouldn't have surgery until after he was a year old.  As it happens, it would never have come down, it was still in the inguinal canal and was half the size of the normal one.

You have loads of time to make a decision (or for it to appear.)  :-)

Hi all
Thanks for your replies
As I thought then there is no major rush to get it booked in in a couple of months!! That was my feeling but thought I would run it by you just to check!!!
Thanks again!
R M

Could I be cheeky and ask how much the operation cost?  Only a friend of mine has a 6 month old puppy whos one testicle has not decended, he is due to be castrated and they will do it all at once at a cost of £500!!!!

There's no rush for him to be castrated as his retained testicle could descend in the next few months. It won't go cancerous between now & him reaching puberty. £500 Jeez do they use gold stitches then ?

I had a similar issue with my rott boy and tooolz suggested the testicle shoogle as a way to help them be released.  If you do a search on this she describes the technique. 

In the end my boy's just dropped but it may be worth a try.

Not sure whether this works, but someone told me once that zinc helps, i remember ringing a company as my sisters lab only had one and they needed to know if it was the left or right one, why i don't know, and his dropped naturally, can't for the life of me remember the company, anyone else heard of this?

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1036606;hl=tooolz%20testicle#pid1036606

tried to edit but this is the thread.

Hello Reggiesmum, don't be rushed! You can wait till he's 18 months or so. Vets seems to have an overly brisk attitude to deciding that at this baby age you dog is better off without anything at all. I might add that this attitude was the last straw for me and I went in search of another veterinary practice after 15 years of being their client--the best thing I ever did. I insisted that they remove only the retracted inguinal testicle, much to their annoyance, and then really put the lid on it by telling them I wanted him hip scored (as a minor breed it's good to have as much information about every animal that we can) since they were already anaesthetising him. They promptly treated me like a suspect backyard breeder and the rest, as they say, is history.

Diesel is very happy six months on as a one ball wonder and never ever has to go near the show ring again. Not sure whether he feels that he's got the best part of the bargain, but his character is exactly the same, his coat is great, and he isn't  subject to being mounted by dogs down the park who can't tell whether he's a he or a she!

I think the cost of surgery came to £170 with pre-op bloods etc, but the cost is going to depend on the weight of your dog and where the undescended testicle is hiding. Good luck with Reggie, take your time and let him grow up a little first :-)

£500! Is this a puppy or a baby elephant we're talking about here??? Sounds extortionate to me--my WSS had this done at £170 all in

JAY15 he is a 6 month old ESS weight 14kg. My friend is a vet, and she said it would be a bit more expensive than a normal castration, but £500 sounded a bit over the top. She said if the testicle is in the abdoman it will be more expensive than a normal castration, but not £500. 

Gosh it's only around £80.00 here in Manchester.  Don't rush into it, the dog is still young.

The friend who has the puppy is not the vet (im probably confusing people now)
Would pet insurance cover the cost does anyone know?
:-)

my insurance company paid out, I was with Direct Line at the time.

I will tell my friend.  She was worried they may not pay up.
:-)

I dont know if they all will, but then I didnt get Fagan castrated I just had the retained one removed (well I would have if it had been there, as it happens he never had 2 in the first place !!) it might be different for castration.

My vet friend has just phoned and told me that every case is different, but they certainly would not charge more than £200, so she is confused as to where the figure £500 came from :-)

I have just had a bitch spayed, she was an older bitch so she her kidney and liver function were tested and also the tumour on her fallopian tube that was removed has been sent off for examination the total for this was £259 so  £500 for a male dog to be neutered seems very steep to me. As others have said I would also be waiting until the dog was older.

My friends vet said they want £500 to neuter their 6 month old dog and remove an un-decended testicle.  Their insurance wont pay up for the operation as Sam isnt sick due to the un-decended testicle and it would be a preventitive operation which they dont cover!

I now know that an undecended testicle is hereditary and will be passed on to his offspring. It is called CRYPTOCHIDSM. It is not just a cosmetic fault since retained testicles can give rise to a particulary unpleasant form of cancer which affects the coat and the whole body of the dog.  Vets do advise you to have the dog castrated and the undecended testicle removed whether its giving trouble or not. Your vet can give an informed opinion about the likelihood of undecended testicles when the puppy is 8 weeks old.
My friend whos dog had this condition contacted the breeder and told her about the problem, and found out that the breeder had used the same stud again a year later and all 4 males from the 2nd litter had the condition :-( Luckily her dog was the only male in the previous litter.  The father to both litters did have both testicles but he and the mum of the puppies are CARRIERES to the detective gegne that causes this awful condition. Apparently, if there are bitches in the womb with the males, they can die in the womb, or during whelping. Some bitches are born sterile. If there are any mummified puppies born (say that died in the womb about 2/3 weeks before birth) this is because of the males carrying the gene of the undecended tesicle. Some vets only removed the undecended testicle, but they should remove BOTH.
This is a SERIOUS condition. 

>Some vets only removed the undecended testicle, but they should remove BOTH. This is a SERIOUS condition. 

why should they ? my dog who had an undescended testicle is nearly 7 and he has never sired a litter ..... because I am a responsible dog owner !!!  Maybe dogs with HD and ED should be castrated too in your opinion ?

Apparently, if there are bitches in the womb with the males, they can die in the womb, or during whelping. Some bitches are born sterile. If there are any mummified puppies born (say that died in the womb about 2/3 weeks before birth) this is because of the males carrying the gene of the undecended tesicle.
Really?  I haven't heard that before.  Where is the evidence for that statement?

but they should remove BOTH.
Certainly no need to remove the descended one.

> but they should remove BOTH.

Have a boy who was cryptorchid, his were found way up in his chest. If, he had been monorchid I would have only had the one removed having seen what castration has done to our other dog.  Yes mistakes can always happen but I consider myself responsible enough not to have allowed him to mate.

> Some bitches are born sterile

I am wondering where this information came from?

I had a boy with a testicle in the inguinal canal.  His litter sisters were bred from.  There were no mummified puppies either.

At 4 months old Reggie is just a baby and your vet is jumping the gun. I waited till my dog was nearly 16 months old and then had only the retained testicle removed, much against my then vet's recommendation--he wanted me to  agree to full castration.

He (the dog, not the vet!) has a lovely temperament, he is a kind and wise ruler of the dog household and I was not about to risk his place in the pack. He is of course now our dear 'womble', but at least he still has the one. He will of course never be bred from.

There is no need for you to rush into any decision. It won't hurt to let Reggie have another year. You don't say what breed he is, but he might just need more time.

he is due to be castrated and they will do it all at once at a cost of £500

Blimey--they should pick the dog up in a limo and give him a night at the Ritz while they're at it for that money. My dog's surgery for the retained testicle (it was a fairly simple job since it was an inguinal retention) plus a hip score while under GA came to a total of £240.

Would advise the removal of the retained one but not till the dog is about 18 months and there is nothing to be gained at all from removing the one that is outside the body to do that may well cause problems except for the vet who will have a nice little earner on his hands.

Unfortunately there are no tests to find out if dogs carry the gene that causes undecended testicles, so therefore until you have a litter with this problem you dont know that your dog or bitch carry the gene. 
In my dog book, it says you should never breed from a dog with one testicle as he will pass it on to his sons. Our vet said BOTH testicles have to be removed.  Not only is there a high risk of cancer, but it also affects the dogs temperament.

Our vet said BOTH testicles have to be removed.

And what reason does he give.

> Our vet said BOTH testicles have to be removed.  Not only is there a high risk of cancer, but it also affects the dogs temperament.

And of course, he provided you with well documented evidence of this?

http://www.dogstuff.info/cryptorchidism.html

Gives you all the information you need on this subject. Hope it helps those of you who are interested :-)

>> Gives you all the information you need on this subject

No it doesn't.. give me nowhere near ALL the information I would need.  It just gives me one persons opinion.

It just gives me one persons opinion.
As with most 'proof' posted whether just from the internet or from one 'expert'!  And rarely are they people with experience!

> BOTH testicles have to be removed

Why remove a healthy testicle and what has having only one got to do with temperament? Would have thought if the dog could have a say in the matter that he'd prefer one rather than none.

I was told we had to have both removed from Jake our BC so we did. He seems fine!! that was about 3 years ago. Re any other issue, I have no idea, I just took the vets advice.

'It is common for retained testicles to give a dog a grouchy, sour, or miserable personality,'

This is a very strange, and perhaps ridiculous statement!  Having worried about cryptorchidism with my boy (not a worry now though, 'yay' for homeopathy :-))  I've spoken to A LOT of people whose dogs have/had this, and done a lot of reading, and spoken to many, many vets.  Not one has said such a thing... and all the 'one-ball' dogs I've met have just been normal dogs.  The author of this article has presented a lot of their (strong) opinions, but with little or no evidence.  I would urge anyone in the situation to WAIT!  Just give these things time and don't be pressured into hasty decisions.  I have to say without being urged to reconsider by JAY15 on this forum, my boy would have been castrated at 12 months... I'm just sooooo glad I waited :-) 

have to ask but how much does it affect the dogs temperament i had a ball-less wonder and he was always a happy well behaved dog although you could see a differance in how other dogs behaved towards him he would tend to get pushed around or get ignored compared to his normal brother

So do both parents have to be carriers to produce affected offspring or can it come down from just the one parent?

how much does it affect the dogs temperament

Here's a different question: if your boy's temperament is sound as it is, would you really want to run any risk of changing it at all?

Many castrated dogs seem to attract the unwelcome attention of entire males who either want to hump them or have a go at them. I can only go by what I see--mostly the owners start to keep their castrated dogs on leads which just exacerbates the problem. That could go a long way to turning a well adjusted boy into a defensive and even unhappy one when his place in the pack is permanently reshuffled.

My boy had an undecended testicle a both were removed at about 10months (bit early I now think) the undescended one was found to be in his abdomen cost of op around £400.