mum only goes in to feed them around every 5h now pups are pnly 3 weeks and 2days old ,when they have had a 10min drink (sucking like mad) they cry and pant like crazy could this be she dont have any milk??? im feeding them 5meals aday of pro plan and ND mixed with goats milk if i mix puppy milk in they dont eat much ,they are now starting to drink water ,ive tryed giving them puppy milk to drink but they walk away i dont think they like it at all now i think if it wasnt for me asking mist to lay down when she goes in she wouldnt she likes to keep going in to smell around and clean the pee up she licks pups clean too ,thing is i dont know what to do about them not getting much milk?? ther still every young and surely still need milk?? i know goats milk hasnt got enough cals in it for them and the amount of food they eat isnt massive amount do i keep mist out and see if they will drink milk  or just keep it as it is pups are very stressed tho :(
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Hi White Lilly,

If they look well covered and are gaining weight they should be getting enough.  There are various puppy porridges on the market that have as one of the ingredients milk substitute (suitable for the canine), but after ND they may well be reluctant to eat it and you would then have to add meat in some form to entice them.   I would think though that if they are walking away from the milk then they are not hungry.   I have reared a few litters in which I have had to take them away from mum and they have been weaned onto a puppy food at the same age as your pups, although I have always offered them milk substitute to lap throughout the day and one last milk drink before settling them down for the night.

It does sound by your description that when feeding from mum that she does not have any milik.

thay are eating half atray of ND each meal with 3/4 pint of goats milk mixed in and just afew soaked kibbles of pro plan ,just 2 of the pups look abit thin but still ok ,any ideas on how to work round the problem og pups getting stressed when mum goes in ???? should i feed them 1st then let mum in to them im having to keep her out the way when feeding she goes made she dont want them eating yet she jumps in if theres milk in there and water!! i sometimes wish she wouldnt want anything to do with them now has it would be alot easyer for me and pups then maybe theyd drink the milk if their not smelling mum all the time! and then at 4 1/2 weeks come back and play and teach them ,Ummm never works out like that does it ,she hates being in the kitchen when i feed or give them drinks its horrible to hear her stressing for the 1st 5mins then she does settle abit
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Is the ND a recommended puppy weaning food and how much in weight does each puppy have?   If it is it should be okay.  If it isn't a puppy weaning/rearing food I would gradually increase the amount of proplan (I take it that the proplan is recommended for weaning pups).   They get stressed when mum goes in as they are looking to feed from her, I would feed them first then let mum in and after they have fed from her she can be allowed to clean them up etc., which should keep her calm.   The 2 pups that look a little thin I would give them their own separate dishes.   It takes a bit of doing especially when you are trying to get the food down with large breed pups, but it is possible - make sure mum is shut in another room while you do this.

It is always stressful when having a litter, especially for owners who care deeply for the dam and the puppies, this is because you are unable to walk away it becomes a vicious circle, you notice every small detail and this in turn makes you worry.

i used ND for last litter and rang them to ask they siad it was for weaning too but with that litter mum was feeding them alot still at this age ,ive just rtyed them a agin with some lactol they had a lick pulled a face and walked away LOL so im going to get some whelpi from the vets and see if that ;ike that??
mist is constantly fussing over them so ive put her in the kichen for awhile so they can sleep ,their due anougher feed at 11 so il give them that and let her go in if she dont lay down for them then il know she dont have any milk and maybe feed pups more often every 3h with food and just make it up with welpi milk ,at this age its a worry when they dont get much milk isnt it and your right im with them 24/7 still so i watch and see every little thing thats happening with them and worry more lol ,i want the best start for them this is my last litter and so wanted to enjoy instead of constent worry but o well the joys of breeding,i have to large weaning dishes the 2 smaller pups and another feed from 1 of them dont get me wrong they do eat well just not as much as the greedy ones :)
thanks dogs dinner
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Raw scrapped beef is what they need WL.
I always feed to meals as a litter and for 2 meals I feed them separately so that I can see what they're eating.
When the pups have finished, I let Mum in to clean the dishes while the pups suckle from her - everybody's happy. :)

ive tryed that westcoast she only to happy to eat their food after theyve done but she stands while they try to reach and feed the she lays down for them once their all there she jumps out
:(:( ,i will give them beef tho :)
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You make her lie down and hold the bowls for her to lick WL while they feed. :)

Is she sore White Lilly - if she is you can obtain various creams that are used for nursing mothers.  A silly question I know but have you trimmed their nails?   And as Westcoast says you must make her lie down while they feed, the more they feed the more milk she will produce, unless for some other reason she is just short of milk and then they never produce enough whaytever you do.

Sounds like they are getting too hot.

What temperature is their living quarters.

I have found that by a week old my double coated Nordic breed pups don't want a temperature in the room over 60- 65'F, though they do have a heat pad on at all times first few days and at night once Mum is no longer welded to them.

Are their tongues and pads of feet very deep red almost beetroot?  it takes a lot of energy to suckle which produces heat.

By this age (3 1/2 weeks) mine would have no heating at all and datime temperature in my house not kept above 17'C (60'F)

ive taken the heat pad away afew days ago pups are in my living room and heating is turned right down i ahve to put a jumper on to keep warm because the pups dont like it warm now they are only over heating when they feed from her ,ive just made her go in and lay down from them only 3 of them were panting and i think thats bacuse they are big now and she only has 8 nipples for 9 pups and they carnt all fit in now...how often should i make her go in and feed them at this age 3weeks and 3 days old should i do it inbetween each meal i was thinking so every 4h she would be feeding them??? i made some lactol up to see if they would drink it they didnt but mum did so im going to keep makeing it up and put in their bed so mum drinks it and it might help with her milk ill try anything!!
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Once my pups are on solids I will let the bitch into them after they have fed, and any time she wants in between.

In your case with the bitch being reluctant I would encourage her to go into them a couple of hours before their first solid meal, and a couple after their last night time feed, and let her go in and top them up after their meals, so they won't be so hungy and pushy.

Every 4 hours sounds fine, especially with the other meals you are giving them.   One of my bitches would never get in the box with the pups at this age, we think that she was frightened of treading on them, so we used to put a piece of vetbed outside of the whelping box and then she would lay down and we then got all the puppies out of the box and she was quite happy to let them feed, after she had fed and cleaned them, they were all put back in the box.   It was time consuming, but it worked well, the only drawback was overnight when we had to make sure that we woke up every few hours!

I had a bitch several years ago that got mastitis when her litter were 2.5 weeks old and she had to be taken away from them.  They wouldnt touch lactol or whelpi from a bottle so I started to wean them, they werent that keen on lapping the milk either so did what you are doing with soaked complete and added goats milk to this and let them drink water which they seemed to like.  I like you paniced and thought omg will they be ok without milk from Mum.

All I can say is that they were all fine and turned into healthy dogs, in fact they are now nearly 9 years old and one of the boys from the litter went Best Veteran in show at Huddersfield Open Show today.

wow dorastar thats great news well done!! :)
thankyou for that, thats put my mind at rest ,im getting mum to lay down every 5h without to much of a fight im sure some milk from mum is better than none!?!?
thanks for putting my mind at rest ;)
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