I have seen adult roundworms in my puppies for the first time ever!!  Yuck!  I have wormed the litter at 2,4 and just finished the last course at 6 weeks there which is why I am seeing the dead worms in the poos now.  My question is, I always worm my bitches before mating and when in whelp but that's normally it.  Should I be worming mum?  As she is still giving quick feeds and cleans up the poo given half a chance.  Is she re-infecting them?  (I think I allready know the answer but I have never had this before)

intill fully weaned i always worm mum same time as pups you are right she is re infecting them xxx

I normally use Panacur 10% suspension on pregnant bitches from day 40 of gestation, until 2 days post whelp.

When pups are given their first 3 day course at 14 days, mum is given a normal adult dose - but just for the one day.  I do bitches again at 5 weeks and 8 weeks when I Panacur pups.

Even giving your bitch Drontal prior to mating makes no difference.  Pregnancy hormones wake up all those encysted worms, which means pups are born with a high worm burden.  Which is why you are seeing dead worms.  If a bitch is wormed during pregnancy, the pups will be born 98% worm free.  Panacur suspension is licensed for use on pregnant bitches.

Yes, pups are re-infecting mum.  She will have picked up worms from cleaning pups. A normal adult dose should see see her right.
Apologies - just re-read your post - you already state that your girl was dosed during pregnancy.

Well, I went along to my vets today with mum tucked up safely in the car so I can sneak her in the side door and weigh her(so she needn't go through the waiting room with all the bugs!) but it was a wasted journey.  I spoke to my vet about seeing the worms in the poo and he said at least I know the pancur is working and the worms are dead.  I suppose.  Anyway, he said that Drontol wormer last 3 months and as we were still under the 3 month umbrella, I shouldn't worm her again.  I did ask about the re-infection but he said I shouldn't worry.  Where did the pups get the worms in the first place if the Drontal worked properly?  Seems a bit odd.

But worms have a very complex and very fascinating lifecycle - you should read up about it, if you haven't already done so ... but whilst having a morning coffee rather than a bedtime cocoa!

This is a reasonable starting point:  http://www.vetbase.co.uk/information/itoxocara-sppi-dogs.php

However, what's even more worrying than the worm's lifecycle is the response of your vet:

he said that Drontol wormer last 3 months and as we were still under the 3 month umbrella, I shouldn't worm her again.  I did ask about the re-infection but he said I shouldn't worry.
That really would make me worry :-(  That's assuming I'm reading you correctly! Worm mum when you worm pups.

Where did the pups get the worms in the first place if the Drontal worked properly?  Seems a bit odd.

Nothing odd about it at all, and hopefully when you read up about a worm's lifecycle you will no longer think it odd :-)

> Anyway, he said that Drontol wormer last 3 months and as we were still under the 3 month umbrella, I shouldn't worm her again.  I did ask about the re-infection but he said I shouldn't worry

   

I can only assume that this vet knows nothing about worms and pregnancy hormones.  How very worrying!  :-(

OMG.  Now I feel such an idiot!  I believed him because he should know better but I was protesting asking him "Well, If the drontal did work for that long, how is she passing the worms to the pups"  or else, where is she getting them?  They are all off to the new owners on Saturday too!  I am bloody fuming!  Right, I'm off to phone the vet.

Sadly vets don't know everything, though admittedly this is pretty basic (and important) stuff!

When did you last worm the pups? Are they due to be done at the weekend? If so, I'd make sure you did them.

With pups I follow the following routine re worming: the minimum age they leave me is 8 weeks, so they're done before they go - the 2 that went at the 8 week weekend were done a few days earlier, so I could monitor. Then pup owners told to worm monthly at 3, 4, 5 and 6 months, then every 3 months (this is what my vet advises and it's what I am happy with).

The pups were 7 weeks old on Wednesday(yesterday) so they will be 71/2 weeks when they leave.  I have wormed them at 2,4 & 6 weeks and they new owners have all the info regarding worming and vaccs dates on their contract/info sheets and I also press home how important worming is.
I phoned the vet who is now saying I am worrying about nothing.  He says that me seeing the worms is just the wormer working(as they were all dead) and not to worry about mum.  He says she is due again this weekend?! so I've to bring her in to be weighed(again!!) and that will be enough.  I thinnk he thinksI am neurotic as he went into a big shpeil about all animals having parasites to a degree, etc.  But I was only wanting to make sure the pups were worm free before leaving.  He said that no pups are worm free hence the reason they worm pups so often till 12 weeks.  I can't re-worm the pups now anyway as it's too soon after the last dose but I will make sure the new owners know the importance.

> OMG.  Now I feel such an idiot!

No need!  Nobody gives advice on CD to make anyone feel daft!  I tend to agree with others that say, if the vet isn't a breeder - ask a breeder instead!  Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate that vets are great at their jobs. 

But their jobs ain't breeding!  :-)

And getting advice, information etc., from each other means we are learning all the time.  And we can never know it all!  :-)

It does sound as if you have made things very clear to your new puppy owners, about the importance of worming in the youngsters.  I am sure they will all be absolutely fine.  :-)

From my experience, vets are aware that worming medication is not a prophylactic (preventative like vaccination) and they do know that the medication acts on the current worm burden and not a future worm burden. 

However, they also seem to believe that a certain level of worm burden is not damaging and therefore a 3 monthly regime is OK for the average dog, as between treatments the level of worm burden is allegedly not excessive enough to cause ill health (to the dog). 

I don't agree with this thought for dogs in general and certainly not for pups who have very little reserves against the damage worms can inflict internally.  A worm burden should be avoided where possible (provided the health of the animal is not compromised by over doing the worming treatments) and I think it is short-sighted of any vet to overlook the potential risk to puppies even if their mother is thought to be carrying a "safe" burden herself.

The product manufactures give clear guidance on minimum frequency of worming and a 2 week cycle of worming should "catch" worms in their various lifecycle stages - giving the best chance of eradication.  Thereby ensuring as far as possible that a vulnerable puppy is not over burdened by either incomplete eradication (not timing worming to mimic the lifecycle of the parasites) or from re-infection (from their mother, other dogs they are in contact with and indeed from the wider environment).