Maybe this one but it makes no mention of accredited breeders  http://www.dogregclub.co.uk/read_latest_dog_lovers_news.php?news_id=20

On the other hand they may jsut mean they are  "accredited" by their vets, their dog food supplier, or the farmer round the corner :). 

hi Pat
There is another register now which has been going a while and is happy to register dogs with no proof of pedigree or health results.

I imagine that their 'customers' wont be bothered if they are accredited or not.

> On the other hand they may jsut mean they are&nbsp; "accredited" by their vets, their dog food supplier, or the farmer round the corner<

A notorious dog breeder/dealer near me uses the word Accredited in his adverts and on his web site. He first used the KC logo then they stopped him but could not stop him using the word he then started advertising that he was accredited and when asked would tell you he was accredited by the RSPCA, who I do not think run an accreditation scheme.

I cannot see a valid reason why this dog breeder would wish to register all of the cross breeds on the KC activity register.  They would not beforehand if every puppy purchaser wished to take part in fly ball, heel to music etc; so what would be the point.  Think it more likely that they are using one of the 'other' registration companies and not the KC.

hi Pat

I meant there was another register like the DLR club not the KCs registers.

We do not neuter puppies and are totally against this practise which sadly is carried out by many breeders. For a puppy under 8 weeks of age to go through a full anaesthetic and such a major operation (especially bitches) is barbaric. The only reason this is carried out by breeder is to stop you breeding with their dogs. We have no issue with you breeding with any of our dogs - that is your option when you purchase a puppy

Above was taken from their website.
Does anyone on here know of breeders that neuter at 8 weeks old???? or in fact neuter pups so that people can't breed from them?  Can't believe such lies.

The bigger the LIE, the flashier it is ;)    that's how they get away with it.  

> Does anyone on here know of breeders that neuter at 8 weeks old???? or in fact neuter pups so that people can't breed from them?&nbsp; Can't believe such lies.

It is something advocated as 'responsible' in the USA and I heard that Labradoodle breeders with the multi generation stock from Australia are purported to do this.

Most breeders I know object to pre pubertal neutering, and I advise my puppy owners not to do it unless essential, and to wait until maturity if they feel the need to neuter and not to neuter males unless they need to because of resident entire bitches.

On one of the labradoodle forums it says this place sells puppies they haven't bred,also that they don't use the BVA health tests but the "police health tests" whatever they may be.

Well in my experience (from talking to police dog handlers, breeders etc) the police do what we do -use the KCA/BVA hip scheme and also elbow and eye testing. In fact you can find police dogs on the KC health test finder if you just know the names for them, I have done. Then again some police dogs are unregistered due to having come from unregistered dogs, and those will of course not be  listed -but I find it hard to believe they'd not BE tested. Good hips etc vital for a working police dog.

Had another look at that labradoodle forum and its a few years old so maybe labradoodles weren't accepted on the BVA scheme then but are now?? The Wentwood website does say that all the dogs they breed from are tested under the BVA scheme(although it doesn't give the results!).
But even if its a step up from a lot of commercial breeders if they do health test its still a puppy farm and breeds which have been bred to thrive on human company such as Bichons and Cavaliers spend their whole lives in kennels- and it doesn't say anywhere that the smaller breeds are walked at all.The statement that puppies which are reared in kitchens in puppy pens are likely to have house training problems is just so ridiculous and obviously Joe Public is being mislead by statements such as that.

Labrador Poodle crossbreeds can along with many other unrecognised breeds be tested under the BVA/KC/ISDS schemes. In 30 years of eye testing I have seen plenty of Poodles and even more Labradors but only one Labrador Poodle crossbred. At the eye testing I run we test all comers crossbreds, total Heinz 57 Variety crossbreeds as well as pedigrees. The BVA/KC/ISDS scheme is really meant to be for any dog being bred from male or female. The crossbreeds we see are usually only brought because they are suspected of having a problem.
Here is the updated list:  http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Breed_Specific_Statistics.pdf

> an accredited breeder must be accredited for all the breeds they own and produce puppies from and list all on the KC register.

All useful info Pat...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume what the KC refers to by the above is "all the breeds the accredited breeder owns" not "all the breeds the accredited breeder has on their premises, i.e. not including the ones registered in a different ownership".

The Accredited Breeder rules can surely only apply to the actual breeder registered with the ABS i.e. Mr & Mrs Smith, not to Gran, Mrs Smith, who lives with them and who breeds her own pups in her own name??

What I am suggesting is that by registering yourself as an AB of just one breed and advertising as such, you could easily lead non-savvy puppy buyers into thinking you were simply 'An Accredited Breeder'?

OK just thought you all might like to know that Wentwood are not accredited breeders. They were but when Bill Lambert went there he was not impressed and they got booted off the scheme.

Description
Dog Breeder Labradoodle Dog Breeders - Wentwood Labradoodles Top UK breeder of all types of top quality Labradoodles. Fully licensed all breeding stock BVA hip and eye tested. Open to any inspection - please look at our website. Call Wentwood Labradoodles on Website: www.wentwoodlabradoodles.co.uk for details.

Found this on pet trade

> OK just thought you all might like to know that Wentwood are not accredited breeders. They were but when Bill Lambert went there he was not impressed and they got booted off the scheme.

Thats interesting,yet another misleading statement on their website then.

Polly could you pm me with more info on this please if you have it ? Thanks Lucy

I also find it very interesting about the clauses they place when a puppy is found to be not fit for purpose. They exchange for another puppy or if it is over a certain period of time then their insurance takes over. I wonder how many people have fallen foul of that gem of a statement :-)

Also does anybody know the kc stance of if a non ABS breeder is mistreating a bitch that is used for breeding where do they stand ? Is it down just for the RSPCA to investigate ? Also what responsibilities do the council who gave the license have or is it down to the individual council ?

The RSPCA tend to leave it to the council to enforce animal welfare for licensed breeders and the council are likely to tell the breeders to improve rather than doing anything more positive to stop it.
With an unlicensed premises recently in Wales the RSPCA would not get involved even when the police called them out but left it to the council. We are hoping for a prosecution but it is more likely that the council will just tell them to improve and then license them.
The KC told me that they would only take action against an Accredited Breeder and that their Code of Ethics for everyone else registering puppies with them was just guidelines and could not be enforced.

It would be worth printing off the evidence of the claim to be Accredited Breeders and also breeding cross breeds. Send this to the K.C. Accredited breeder dept and ask for their thoughts on whether this should be acceptable. A breeder of Bernese and Goldens who was K.C. accredited had the accreditation removed when evidence was provided that she was crossing the 2 breeds.

I am already into discussions with various people on this but thanks for the advice :-)

Below is a reply from the KC by email (I have copied and pasted the reply) this relates to another breeder, not the one refered to in this thread and so as to not identify the breeder I have removed the named breeds and replaced with xxxx.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

When a breeder applies to join the scheme they put the breed or breeds on the application form. In this case I would assume that the breeder just put xxxx - and then confirmed that they were a member of at least one named breed club for that breed which would qualify them for the accolade.

Because Accreditation is given to the breeder or person, then every litter that they register has to comply with the scheme requirements. So, in this case, if the breeder tried to register a xxxx litter it would be policed - and, in the case of the xxxxx there are certain health test requirements to meet. We would discuss with the breeder whether it was appropriate to add xxxxx to their list of breeds. The breed club accolade is only given if a breeder is a member of a breed club for each breed they are listed for so if a breeder wanted to add a new breed - eg xxxxxx but was not a club member then they would lose the accolade given for the other breed eg xxxxx.

On the other hand, if it is brought to our attention in writing ( not email - we need a signed letter) that an Accredited Breeder is selling unregistered puppies then we would take the matter up with them. It is not acceptable to be on the scheme for some breeds but not for others.

So are you sayimg you can be on the ABS so long as you meet the other requirements, but as far as registering the pups, you could register them on the activity register if not eligible for the breed register???

I felt the same about this poor bitch - I've never bred dogs so don't know either - absolutely.
I do know that I follow Norwegian Elkhounds and have NEVER seen a picture of a bitch in this condition,even those who have had one or more litters!   NE's are so prone to weight gain that I would think if a bloated belly and teats were the norm Elkhounds would show this at least as much, if not more than, as any other breed.

Investigated a little on the brood bitch for re-homing 'Sooty', Housty bred.  Looked at Housty site; "are perfect for breeding, working and pets." NOTE breeding comes first in this description.  Not saying they don't care also they seem to do a lot in field trials, but... they seem to be promoting sales for breeding.  IMO this can, and does, happen a lot with 'livestock' breeders, owners, experts, trainers etc. 
I imagine they will ensure healthy 'stock', and have high levels of expertise in animal husbandry, [they wouldn't succeed in their fields otherwise] yet I think this gives a more practical and commercial view of breeding that leads to sales of 'stock'. rather than individuals.
After reading many other posters' investigations, and my own, I feel fairly convinced about the health testing  results of both the Housty and Westwood claims, yet still have strong reservations, and distaste about the ethics of these kennels.

Well considering that my Lexi came out after her third litter last year in September to get 2nd in Veteran stakes, and then the RCC at Midland Counties in October, and last week won the Veteran stakes at Manchester,  I would hope not.

Jozi at 10 1/2 also after 3 litters won two RCC's last year, so obviously in good body condition.

How often or how many litters would bitches need to have to be in that state.

> How often or how many litters would bitches need to have to be in that state.

A lot! Have you looked at Lynseys Anti puppy farming site? She has dogs that look that rescued from puppy farms.

I saw a few Labs on one of the anti puppy farming websites over the weekend, it is so heartbreaking.
There needs to be much tougher punishments for the low lifes who subject these poor dogs to a life of misery.

Barbara - > How often or how many litters would bitches need to have to be in that state.

that's what I was trying to say.  Only breeding Elkhounds I've seen are in amazing condition.