Hello,

I hope that I have posted in the right section and that you will be able to help me.

We recently lost our beloved Cavalier to heart failure.  This has been so distressing that the rest of the family have said "No" to having another Cavalier. 

My question is can anyone recommend another small breed which has a similar temperament and is generally long lived ? (I understand there are no guarantees) 

One thing I love about that breed is its ability to enjoy long rambles so stamina is one requirement. 

Someone did suggest a Lowchen but I understand that they are rare.

Many thanks.

I took this attitude when my beloved Rufus was diagnosed with a very severe heart murmur aged just under 8 -the vet gave him months to live. I then went ahead and got a Papillon -very healthy, long lived breed, can do a lot, very, very trainable, bit more energetic than a Cavalier though (don't think they know they have four legs as they are always either on two or none at all, bouncing in the air!) although smaller -and I would never be without them now. Great dogs. However Rufus ended up living to 15 years and 2 months of age and once he was gone we felt we couldn't be without a Cavalier after all so we got another from the same breeder -parents and grandparents heart tested, MRI scanned etc, so I feel fairly safe my new Cavalier will not have a short life even if I won't expect 15 again. In any event, the two breeds get along great. I know a fair few people who have gone from Cavalier to Papillon.

There are a fair few breeders out there (just like of Cavaliers) that needs to be avoided -parents should ideally be eye tested and have had their patellae checked. Incidentally the world's oldest dog was a Papillon in the UK -died age 28!

I would agree that the Papillon is a good choice- small in stature but big on personality.
Will lie on your lap or do agility/ obedience and walk next to nothing or miles whatever is on offer.
I moved to Papillons 5 years ago from another breed due to breed health issues.
There are two shows in the next few weeks- One near Birmingham and one near Selby where you could come and see if the breed is for you.
Let me know if you want more details

Tibetan Spaniels. 

did think Japanese chins but seems they too can have heart issues, http://www.dogclub.co.uk/dogs/profile-jchn.php http://www.japanesechinonline.org/health/ though not common.

You could also look at Tibetan Spaniels.?. Very long lived slightly smaller than Cavaliers. Love going on walks, never seem to tire.

Negatives........well they can be rather independent , but mine is exercised off lead and does a good recall with a whistle.

Thank you all for your answers.  I couldn't get on the forums last night so could not reply to you before, sorry.

I like the sound of the Papillon.  One query would be the level of activity they display around the house.  Are they very vulnerable around big dogs ?  Although a Cavalier is small I was not nervous when mine was offlead with bigger dogs. (The only incident was when she was knocked over by a very bumptious young labrador - she was very annoyed and continued to give him "the look" ever after).  I am quite timid so I also need a dog who is easily trainable - I have an image in my mind of a strong willed breed training me to sit, stay etc.  I love dogs but due to an incident involving a large dog when I was young am not as confident around them as I would wish. 

Tibetan Spaniels are a breed which also appeals but maybe the independent spirit might prove too much for me.  I am not a total wimp but feel it important to be realistic in terms of what temperament I feel I could deal with. 

I would dearly love another Cavalier but the family is dead set against no matter what I say.  Believe me I have tried. It is such a pity as the breed ticks all the right boxes for us.  I hope your Cavalier lives to a very ripe old age.

I love the idea of going to some shows to meet different breeds.  I can honestly say I have not met either a Tibetan Spaniel or a Papillon outside of Discover Dogs.  We are in definite gundog territory here - the place is awash with Labradors and Spaniels. Wonderful dogs all, but either too big or too "springerish".

Thanks again.

PS We are some 25 miles south of Birmingham so sounds as if the one dog show may not be too far away.

Why dont you wait until Crufts on March 17th.
Both Tibetan Spaniels and Cavaliers are on that day.
The Tibbies are being judged in ring 17 and will be benched and gathered around there.You will be able to see many of them and Im sure their owners will tell you all about them and let you have a cuddle.

Hang on in there on the Cavalier front, maybe sometime in the future you will come back and see that many of us have turned the problems around. There are many breeders working hard toward a better future for these little dogs.

I like the sound of the Papillon.  One query would be the level of activity they display around the house.  Are they very vulnerable around big dogs ?  Although a Cavalier is small I was not nervous when mine was offlead with bigger dogs

They are just as likely to sleep on the sofa as to run around chasing toys -much what you allow them to do really. :) As for big dogs, in the HOUSE I don't have a problem (although will not leave them unsupervised together with a big dog -I have large dogs as well- at night or if we have to go out the Papillons will be caged or the dogs kept in separate rooms) but I would never let one run offlead together with a big dog. But then I would not accept that for my Cavalier either. A few years ago there was a person on here whose Cavalier had its back broken in play with a Labrador, the Lab put a paw on the back and that was it.  So I walk mine separately or have the big dog on lead and the little off. You can see the size difference of my dogs in my avatar -in that photo the two dogs are doing a down stay for the photo. (Although my smallest Pap is half the size of the one in the pic, and my largest Malinois somewhat bigger too.)

Thank you again for replies.

I think you may have a point about waiting for Crufts.  There is a danger we might rush into this without thinking it through properly.

We will not necessarily be looking for a puppy - our Cavalier was an ex show dog who was not particularly keen on showing.  She got as far as Crufts but was then destined to be a breeding bitch.  Finding she had a stricture her breeder decided not to put her through the possibility of a caesarian so she came to us as a family pet. Strangely she never seemed happier than when covered in mud in pursuit of an especially intriguing scent. 

I wonder if there is a "right breed" for everyone and I should just sit tight in the hope that the health issues in cavaliers will be sorted.

Having said that Papillons sound very attractive.  I think a day out at Crufts is definitely called for.  I would love to meet the Tibetan Spaniels too - they look like little characters.

Thank you all again

PS I love the "little and large" avatar. 

Have you thought about a King Charles Spaniel? I don't think they have the same problems as the Cavalier. If you considered an older Cav (say 5+) I think any heart problem and syringomyelia should have manifested by then. I have been boarding a Cav for 4 months and she is the most delightful lady, full of personality and now thinks she is a Golden on walks. I am seriously tempted. No "little dog syndrome" for her but I am becoming the"paranoid little dog owner" (ie clipping her lead on when I see certain breeds approaching!)

Have you thought about a King Charles Spaniel? I don't think they have the same problems as the Cavalier. If you considered an older Cav (say 5+) I think any heart problem and syringomyelia should have manifested by then

The King Charles is also susceptible to MVD and SM from what I have been told. I found it impossible to Google for UK information (and the breed club website does not mention health at all) as so many sites confuses Cavalier and King Charles, so instead I Googled for the American name of English Toy Spaniel. I found a page from the American KC which does mention MVD in KCS.
http://www.akcchf.org/canine-health/breed-specific-concerns/index.jsp?page=

Back to Cavaliers though, 50 % of dogs will have a heart murmur by age 5 but the rest (98 % or so) will have it by age ten, so it can still be around the corner. 5 is by no mean a "safe" age. The important point is to make sure the parents of any dog you get are both at least 2 ½ years old and heart clear with all four grandparents at least 5 years old and still heart clear. The aim is to push the onset of MVD back as late as possible in life.

Even forgetting the health issues I really am not sure how I feel about King Charles Spaniels (being tactful here) - they always look more fragile than a Cavalier and there is something about the flat face that does not appeal so much.  Perhaps this is somewhat coloured because the first ones I ever met were kept by a somewhat batty old great aunt 50 years ago!  Apologies to all who love the breed.

If only we could rewrite history with breeds such as the Cavalier - I meet so many people with a young one who insist that they will be free from any inherited health issues because, "They are from Australian lines", "The breeder says there are no problems with their dogs" or, my personal favourite, "The breeder is a nurse, so she knows all about health issues"

At the moment I think we are going to draw breath and give this some real thought.  Maybe take a trip up to Discover Dogs and look at other breeds.  Above all we do not want to rush into this and end up regretting it - both for our sake and that of the dog. 

Having said that Papillons are so tempting as a breed.  There are lots of issues to consider.

Thank you all for your advice.

I know how you feel, but in spite of losing my Cavalier at 8 years old I have 2 more and wouldn't be without them. But if you definitely can't face another one just yet, as others have said a papillon or Tibetan spaniel is a possibility, or how about a cocker or American cocker, if you want to go a little bigger - very similar temperament but sturdier with big dogs and a bit 'busier' and wanting to do stuff. :-)

I have king charles , the majority of our have been tough little dogs who could walk for miles. we had one who was 17 and still going for walks.
Their character is TOTALLY different to a cavalier. They choose one person and stick to them and they are stubborn and naughty , If you ask them to do something they will ask why.
I adore them but I have a lot of patience ,lol

They do Get SM and MVD ( though not as much and seem to cope better with it when they do) but very few breeders test.

If I where to reccomend a breed I would say a papillon. Nice intelligent little dogs.

>At the moment I think we are going to draw breath and give this some real thought.  Maybe take a trip up to Discover Dogs and look at other breeds.  Above all we do not want to rush into this and end up regretting it - both for our sake and that of the dog.

Verity, without wishing to sound patronising at all can I commend you for this :)

Speaking as one who thinks I have found the most most perfect breed for me, I can highly recommend doing your research first.  There are other breeds (although not many) that I think I could love BUT when you find a very good match for you and your family it makes dog owning such a joy.  Incidentally after years of thinking about my breed in a semi casual way it took just one visit to the breed ring at Crufts, to Discover Dogs, and meeting the woman who would be 'my breeder' to really confirm we should go ahead and take the plunge.  We've never regretted it, now have two of the same breed, and I suspect I shall never be without one!

Good luck with your choosing - oh and by the way take as many of your family to Crufts as you can, it helps to have all the decision makers with you...

> it took just one visit to the breed ring at Crufts, to Discover Dogs, and meeting the woman who would be 'my breeder' to really confirm we should go ahead and take the plunge.

Lol I was most upset when they took the Papillon from me- I didn't ever want to put it back- Discover Dogs is great...

If I where to reccomend a breed I would say a papillon. Nice intelligent little dogs.
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Can people stop saying how great the pap is i desperatly want one and this is not helping lol

Can people stop saying how great the pap is i desperatly want one and this is not helping lol

Ha, I wanted one and now have five! Impossible to stop LOL.

Thats it you rub it in lol, if i hadn't got 5 spitz and 3 with quite a close age gap i would be having one asap but have to wait now fora few years down the line but it is definatly a work in progress lol.

I was and still am rather tempted, but now I have my Cavs I don't think I'd ever change. :-)

Crufts this year is March 10-13th with cavaliers/tibetans both on Sun 13th :-)

I adore my Cav..wouldnt be without her.
Shes my baby:)

Hi,

looks like we shall be very busy at Crufts..........  Thank you for all your suggestions.  I dare not show this thread to my daughters as we shall end up with a Cavalier and a Tibetan Terrier and a Papillon and a Yorkie and a  King Charles............. maybe add a Cocker for good measure........

Seriously, I think we shall get ourselves up to NEC on the Toy day and keep an open mind.  The house seems very empty and somewhere is the perfect little dog to make it a home again.

Thank you all.