Hi all, Tiegan is now around 3 wks in whelp and this morning I have got up and instantly knew there was something wrong. My girl is always very hungry and when she didnt get up to ask for her breakfast alarm bells started to ring. I got her up to get her outside for a wee and she is extremely lame on one of her hind legs. Now she is a very hard bitch shall we say and rarely does she show any discomfort or pain. She wont put her leg down at all and when Ive checked it over I can't see or feel anything so Im hoping shes just pulled a muscle on a walk or something but she seems to be a little more in pain when it comes to her toes.
Anyway, she's at the vets at 3pm to get it looked at because it must be bad for her not to get up for her breaky and she's not moved all morning just laid sulking.

My problem is her possibly being pregnant. Obviously I will make the vets aware of this but Im worried they are going to give her something that may harm the pups/cause her to reabsorb or something at such a critical time in her pregnancy.
What would you guys do? Im going to rest her completely until its better anyway but would you rest her and see what happens and hope it sorts itself out or would you accept whatever meds the vets gives and give her them.
I know the vets wouldnt give her anything she shouldnt have but still how do I know that it wont do some sort of damage?

She will be going to the vets anyway later but Im just a bit reluctant to just give her anything without questioning it especially if its really isn't necessary.

Please help
Thanks Amy

> would you rest her and see what happens and hope it sorts itself out or would you accept whatever meds the vets gives and give her them.
>

You are responsible for the welfare of this bitch, so you can't leave her and "see what happens."  There are antibiotics that are given quite safely during pregnancy, so you need not worry too much about them "harming" pups.  As you say - you are going to tell the vet this anyway.

As she gets heavier during pregnancy, her discomfort and pain will get worse.  I would rather treat my bitch, and dimiss the litter, and if she reabsorbs, so be it.  The bitch is more important than a litter.  You have stated that alarm bells rang, so make her your priority and worry about a litter when she is well.

Oh I didnt mean for it to sound like that. Of course my girl comes first no matter what, however, I have a feeling that this is a pulled muscle or strain of some kind as she does run around like a lunatic. She comes to work with me and had a rather mad day yesterday. If it is a strain then anti biotics wouldnt sort it, would they? I was thinking they may try and give her some sort of anti-inflammatory/pain killer. This is they only thing my vets have ever given me for my girls when they have been lame for some reason or other. I am assuming that theyll do the same and just give me something to ease the pain, I know for a fact that metacam isnt safe so Im worried that other things may not be safe that do a similar thing.
I can see how my post might have sounded, I really didnt mean it the way it was taken. Wish I hadn't posted now, I feel like a really bad owner :-(

Obviously you're not certain she is in whelp yet, but I would get her to the vet, if she's gone lame for no reason I would be concerned there could be an infection or something else lurking.   Does she have a discharge of any sort?

Does she sleep in a cage?  I had a dog with similiar symptoms and I'm almost certain now that she got her foot caught whilst asleep.  She was painful near the foot and hock area.  She had pain killers for a couple of weeks and after 4 days she was able to fully weight bare (can't spell today).  She;s not had the problem again since.

Hi no she doesnt sleep in a cage. Ive just remembered though that the other day when she went to the park I took her lead off and told her to sit and wait as I walked away then I recalled her to me. On her way she was running so fast and she slipped on the ice. At the time I checked her over and she didnt seem to be in pain and she just carried on as normal. Do you think if she had hurt herself it could be showing up now. It was Friday she slipped, then was at work with me yesterday and showed no signs but ran around like a loony.
Thanks everyone.
Only 2 hours and she's at the vets. Will let you know how she goes. Shes only moved once today and that was only because shewas too hot where she was, she can put it down but only very lightly.

As long as you make them aware she could be in whelp they can be careful about what they give her. Also be careful about her getting stressed or any physical knocks (lifting onto table should be done very carefully etc) as 3 weeks in whelp is just when the foetuses will be starting to attach to the uterus.

Hi all, Back from vets and they had a good feel of her leg and it seems that its her knee joint that they think is causing her the pain. They said there is no inflammation or anything there so she has probably just twisted it. They said as she is in whelp there is nothing they can give her and to give her complete rest. They said if it doesn't get better in the next 3-4 days then to take her back. She started to weight bear at the vets but still limping and when we came out she was back to keeping foot off the floor again. Must have been the excitement.

Anyway, while we were there the vet decided to give her a quick scan. She could see one puppy! She said that her huge colon was in the way so there couldve been more hiding behind there.
This now has me worried, I wish they'd never scanned her! Would it be possible that only one puppy has attached itself to the uterus and the rest havent yet and it is too early to tell? Or might they be easily hiding somewhere else? I suppose she could have reabsorbed the rest aswell?

I really hope there are a couple more there as I would hate to think she had to go through a section because she was only having one puppy.

She was mated on New years day, so she could be 22 days from first mating then again 2 days later so only 20 days from second mating. Surely its too early???

I always thought 3 weeks was too early for a scan, but I'm no expert! As far as I know, 3 weeks is when the foetuses are all attaching to the uterus, so hopefully you will get more!

if its her knee and was also very sudden, did the vet suspect a cruicate tear at all....just if so its a long recovery and you will need to keep her on lead walks only....hope not and that its just a knock and it will settle down soon, bless her thats all she needs right now.

Regarding numbers i wouldnt panic yourself about a singleton just yet as 3 weeks is a little early

Keep us posted x

Forget about the litter for the time being and concentrate on your bitch! The stress of a twisted leg could easily cause her to reabsorb the whole litter but saying that I have a bitch that get her leg cought her leg in a wooden pub bench (no brake or anything) while in whelp and went on the have her biggest litter ever.

Scan again in a week or so

Thanks everyone, she had a good feel as I thought it might have been her foot. All she said was that her ligament felt fine and she may well have twisted it. I have got the cage out for her so she can go in there when Im not about, saying that she's barely moving at all anyway, not even when theres food dropped on the floor, poor girl.
Hope this sorts itself out soon she seems to be in a fair bit of discomfort.Could a cruciate injury come on just like that? She was absolutely fine when we went to bed last night and was like this when we came down this morning. Would I have had an idea that she has damaged herself on a walk or anything if it was as serious at cruciate ligament?

im sure shes in pain poor girl but regarding food i wouldnt woory thinking its the pain from her knee im sure she might have pregnency sickness alot of girls get it at this stage! and can last aweek or more so maybe try tempting her with some very tasty foods :)
hope your girl feels better soon xxxx

Forget about the litter for the time being and concentrate on your bitch!

Ditto, if the stud dog is in this country and is going to be around for a while put the litter secondary for now, you can mate her again. The last thing you want is to have a bitch with problems having the weight of a litter baring down on her joints. If it does not improve I would have serious talks with your vet about repercussions on your bitch in continuing the pregnancy.

On the brighter side it is most probably something which will right itself and could well have been caused when she slipped on the ice, any of us who have strained our backs, necks and shoulders can happily tell you that the day we strain them the true pain, stiffness and damage doesn't always show until the following day and can feel even worse the day after that, so your girl could very well have damaged herself that day.

Fingers crossed for a steady recovery, rest her and hopefully she will begin to put more and more pressure on it over the next few days, these things can take days or weeks to repair, however it shouldn't get worse. Best of luck! :-)

> Wish I hadn't posted now, I feel like a really bad owner :-(

I certainly didn't mean to infer that you don't care!!!  :-(

I was just wanting to make it clear that your girl is more important, as a pregnancy, and if the diagnosis was luxating patella, would be a major, major worry.  Sufficiently serious that I would wish to abort the litter, rather than place the strain of extra weight on your girl.

I wouldn't be too wrapped up in the results of a scan.  Even scanned later, pups have been seen in some bitches, and they have gone on to reabsorb the lot, so no needless worries at this stage.

I wouldn't be taking your girl out for walks, and would be limiting household exercise to a minimum.  Resting her is your main priority now.

not sure if its worth adding but i'd have thought at this stage in pregnancy the bitch could be feeling a bit out of sorts on the food front anyway?

>> Could a cruciate injury come on just like that?

When my girl ruptured her cruciate we didn't know at the time. She was chasing a ball and turning quickly. No yelps, limping or any other indication of it. Walked home fine, we popped out, came back an hour later to her limping.

>I always thought 3 weeks was too early for a scan, but I'm no expert! As far as I know, 3 weeks is when the foetuses are all attaching to the uterus, so hopefully you will get more!

I always scan at 3 weeks and have picked up pups each time, but it is a lot clearer to see at 4 weeks, so hopefully they will see more when you take her back.

Good luck.

Hi everyone, Just an update on Tiegan. Got the cage out last night she rested all day yesterday and got up this morning to her having a huge foot! I let her out and she didnt put it down and called the vets straight away and took her down at 9am. Was a different vet this time, which Im pleased about, she felt around and Tiegan was in a lot of pain in one of her toes and the vet said that its the toe that swollen and it was very hot to the touch. They said that it could be an infection but there didnt seem to be any wounds on her foot at all or she may have broken her toe. She also said its likely to be a nail bed infection and something has migrated up her toe causing the swelling etc.

They have given her clavaseptin and said complete rest, if it gets worse then ring them straight away and if it doesnt improve in 3 days then we will have to look at pain relief/anti-inflammatories and possible xray. Hopefully the anti biotics work becuase no pain relief is licensed for pregnant bitches and she said that it could affect puppies kidneys etc. if she doesnt lose them.
Poor girl will be gutted when I go to work tommorrow and she has to be left behind :-(

So much for it being her knee!!!!
Please keep your fingers crossed that its gets better soon
Amy

Thanks for the update, poor, poor girl, speaking just for myself, I would want an x-ray now I would want to know what was going on, because basically it is just guess work that is going on, it could be this, it could be that, your girl has got worse, an xray will rule out the more serious, it's what I would do?

So sorry, poor girl, what a worry for you.

I'm not saying I'm glad she has a huge foot!  But glad that you have things narrowed down.

Like Carrington, I would want that x-ray NOW!

And I have had an x-ray on a pregnant bitch with no ill effects.  So please don't worry that it will hurt pups if there are any.

Morning all, Just a quick one to let you know how Tiegan is before I go to work.
After seeing the last 2 posts on here yesterday PM I rang the vets, spoke to the receptionist, explained the situation and asked if I could speak to a vet re: xraying Tiegan. There were no vets available and I finally got a phone call last night at 6pm!

I explained that she came first and if she aborted the litter then so be it, but I felt that it was my responsibilty to try to keep my girl as comfortable as possible and I felt I wasn't doing that. I told her that I thought the toe was very likely to be broken, after slipping on the ice and that we were holding off the xrays, only for her to suffer and be in 3 xtra days of pain. When in the end we may have to x ray her anyway.

She strongly advised me not to xray becuase the sedation itself could cause her to abort (which I wasnt too bothered about) and the xray at this stag in pregnancy could cause mutation of the puppies. I told her that I give her until Id come in from work later to see what she was like and if no improvement then they would x ray her, if they refused then I would take her to another vet!!

Im so so pleased to say that this morning she is putting her foot down and has only a slight limp. I cant tell you how relieved I am, I nearly cried when she came walking up to me.
Ive got my MIL coming up to see to her twice today as although she is used to being left at times, she wont like me going to work without her. She is going to ring me if there are any problems and fingers crossed she is either better or no worse tonight when I get in. Not sure ifits the anti biotics, she only started them yesterday am or the 2 days rest. I will keep her reated for the rest of the week then introduce lead walking only for a while see how she goes.

Thankyou so much for your help, you also gave me the strength to challenge my vet when I wasn't happy with something. I find that very hard to do usually and just go ith the flow. She is my girl and it is my right to have her x rayed if I wish. Hope she continues the way she is
Amy

Ive just her in from outside and she just trotted through the kitchen as normal.....WWWWWOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!

Sorry lol, her toe is still swollen though, how long would you give it to go down?

If it were me, I would just be keeping a very close eye on her, still rest her as much as possible, just taking care not to aggravate any possible problem, I would think that if she's been using it for the last 24 hrs with little discomfort, then I would hope the swelling would have gone down in a weeks time. Glad to hear she's much better

thats great :) still lots of rest and she should be back to normal very soon xx

So pleased, Phew! Fingers crossed for continued improvement. :-)

Ive come in from work tonight and she's not limping at all now, yey! Just trotting around like her normal self again. Its still swollen but seems to have gone down a little from this morning, it must still be tender as she wontlet me have a look at it, she ran away from me, poor girl.

So now hoping for her being back to normal in the next week and hopefully she's got more than one baby in there and she's not lost them with the stress of the last few days.

> She strongly advised me not to xray becuase the sedation itself could cause her to abort (which I wasnt too bothered about) and the xray at this stag in pregnancy could cause mutation of the puppies.

tiegold

????  How odd!  When I had a pregnant bitch x-rayed I was allowed to stay with her until the last second, and then back off as x-ray was taken.  Happened so quick that my bitch didn't move.  I would have been horrified if she had sedation.  And as to mutation of pups - your bitch would only have had her foot x-rayed, not her belly.  Peculiar!

Anyway, very, very glad that she seems to have turned the corner, and pleased that you are plucking up courage to stand your ground - as you say - you are paying for their services!

Just as a note to anyone worried about x-rays and pregnant bitches.  I had a bitch that had only been mated a few weeks prior to being attacked by another dog.  There was no choice about a GA as it was bad enough to need surgery.  Now, we are not talking sedation here - we are talking full GA.  The vet did say that it was likely that my bitch would reabsorb.  To be fair, she was my priority, so I was totally happy about the expected outcome.  I didn't even consider that we would be having pups.  But I was wrong!  :-)
She whelped just fine.

I know this doesn't make any difference to your outcome, but sharing these things is how we gain knowledge!  :-)