Help me to understand?

Dont want to offend any pitbull lovers but who exactly likes these dogs..are they to boost egos? I've seen some people desperate to get them ? There are so many lovely breeds of dogs what's up with owning a pit?

I would guess, that whilst there are some people out there who desperately want a pitbull (or a staffi, or an irish staff, or any breed which is banned, or a GSD, or mastiff ) just so that they can intimidate people and want to look 'hard' or 'cool', there are some people out there that just love the breed.
I mean, there are people who will drive hundreds of miles out of their way to get say a Dalmation, its no good telling them to have a Lab from round the corner. People like what they like, i bet there are people on here who have only ever had one breed, fell in love with it, and would never have anything else.
Those of us who are responsible (in the uk) realise that whilst a PitBull, or a Tosa, or any breed that is illegal would be lovely to own, if thats the breed you love, it is illegal, and isnt a clever idea.
It is IMO the irresponsible poeple who want to own a banned breed, ignore the legal status of these, and worse, will call any bull type crossbreed a pit, who make life for the rest of us more difficult.
I own a staffy cross, he is longer in the leg than most staffs, and he is wire haired, and black and tan, yet, the day after i have hand stripped him, i was told by a VET! that he looked like a pit bull, and did i know that he could be confiscated?!
I have no doubt that if enough people told the authoritys that my dog was a pit bull cross, i would loose him.
Emma

There is a big difference KNOWING you are doing something wrong you didn't know...and to be quite honest I wonder can they truly prove a cross ?I just think of the people that want a pitbull as ones who show off and want to tell every one hey come see I own an ILLEGAL dog..I understand what it is like to love certain dogs I love Dachshunds,yorkies and Boxers (all of which I had in the past)generally I love all dogs some I dislike owning personally but if someone told me tomorrow be wary of them ..they kill lets say my opinion of the dog would change ..that's just me I have kids and try to have a dog I know the breed .

melmel

there are a whole series of threads in VISITORS QUESTIONS regarding pitbulls
:)
kitty

kitty that is what made ask the question in the fisrt place and to EOGHANIA maby I did not phrase myself properly when I said I would be wary if the breed was then deemed bad I do not mean hear say and talk I mean something much further like the bannin of a dog would make me think I never would get rid of a dog that I knew to be fine and loved ! :)I DO know dogs I have had them all my lives my aunt is an international dog breeder and judge .

What a lot of crap. There are far more dogs out there that are likely to bite/attack than any of the banned breeds. I do know you mean well but its the uneducated gossip like this that causes problems. someone who knows nothing of an APBT could read this post and be terrified of their next door neighbours dogs for ever more. If you dont want one stop discussing them as you are not being fair to a breed you know nothing about.
My father was an airline pilot. Ive never been on a plane in my life and I know even less about flying one. Just because your aunt was a breeder and a judge does'nt give you any special knowledge of dogs. Also I take it your aunt is old now. well times move on and opinions change, we are continually finding out that our forfathers did'nt always get it right. As for Judges. They get it wrong too. as for the law on dangerous dogs, no point in discussing it with someone who has condemned an entire breed with no knowledge of the breed or what the DDA actually acheived.
Mck

no my aunt is not OLD she still goes Crufts actually and I have owned dogs all my live just not a pit bull nor a bull terrier so I was asking..and people have said what I asked that there are ego boosters who get the dogs to boast and fight them .if I had a pet yorkie pup and trained it to hate and bite it would I ve seen it done the owner would say "sook him " and the dod would attack!)...dogs are like humans if you are raised agressive ..like some on this who are attacking me.. it is like that with dogs, raise them gently and caringly in a loving home you get different results! I did have a dog once he was an asltation cross and he was the most loving dog and he snapped one day for no reason ...maby as that happened to me and I have kids I am a little more wary.. the bigger the dog the bigger the bite! :)

Melmel

Im sorry if Ive been a bit hard on you. Im just defensive of my type of dogs. As you say too many people get them for the wrong reasons. I am not an aggressive person. I just say what I am thinking. As for the assumption the bigger the dog the bigger the bite, thats not quite correct, a bull terrier bite will do a lot more damage than a GSD. Yet you said you were considering a staff. Another thing is dogs are not like humans. Dogs are dogs and do not think the way humans think. A lot of dogs (All breeds) problems are caused by people relating to them as humans instead of dogs. If you are wary of GSDs and pit bulls then another animal may be the answer. When I say leave the breed out of your conversation its because the negative comments such as ,.. when a dogs been banned I wouldnt want one... This doesnt do the breeds any favours, especialy when the public veiw of these dogs is low. Bull Terriers dont need to be banned, but as a responsible bull terrier owner I would be in favour of compulsory training for all breeds of dogs. Then my well behaved bull terriers will not be attacked as much by the so called normal non devil dog owners.

Please dont take this the wrong way. I get abuse in the streets occasionaly. My bull terrier pup was attacked by a GSD that was off the lead. It cost me £1000 to fix my dogs leg and I have to go to court in january for kicking the GSD once to stop the fight. Why ?. 6 foot guy with bull terrier(15 weeks old) . 5 foot poison dwarf female with pedigre dog and diplomat for a father. Off course I must be guilty. I had to have my well trained APBT dressed tatoo'd chipped registered and insured for 2 million damages to 3rd partys. As well as wear a muzzle in public so that all the off the lead and stray dogs can attack it and it cant defend itself.

So yes I can be a little on my high horse from time to time. If people do not make ill informed remarks about the bull terrier I would not.

Regards Mick

5 foot poison dwarf female

Lol @ Mick

Don't wish to make light of it as I agree totally with you, but that did make me laugh :D
Ali :)

also you tell me to stop discussing them if i dont want one..I am interested in ALL breeds of dogs since I was a small child I had all types of dog books with breeds .If you tell everyone to stop asking about them no onder there is such ignorance about them?

melmel, I think some people are a little put out by your post from the tone of it. You ask - There are so many lovely dogs out there whats up with owning a pit! Why do you love your breed, can you explain it? I cant, I just love everything about them(staffs by the way) You imply that the pit bull could not be a lovely breed, yet you have never owned one or any bull breed.
Mr Murphy is a bit put out, I would imagine, for the same reason I was. Bull breeds get enough of a slagging off from alot of people that dont know alot about them. They just assume cos they are muscular and not fluffy that they must be nasty. NOT TRUE.
I have not had bull breeds for many years but the people on here that are telling you about them have done, and are very experienced.
Check out the site Chris G has listed further down the page, maybe this will tell you why some of us were bothered by your sweeping statement. Unless you have met many pit bulls It is a bit unfair to make a judgement on them.
Emma

As i said people misunderstood my point..what's up with owning a pit? well my point is weather you like it or not they have banned the dog my point is why are people on the visitors and others searching high and low for a dog that is illegal ..at the end of the day it is against the law?!I never said the pit is bad i never said I hate the pit..i never put my opinion in it I asked a question maby I did not explain it properly..I have been to a pit bull dog show whereit is not illegal ...ALL breeds interest me..i consider myself a dog lover although I favour certain breeds more than others..

I may be wrong but I think they are only illegal in UK not worldwide? and many visitors to this Board are not just Brits
Gina

Hi Gina, there are many BSL in many different countries, not just for the APBT. In Germany for example the breeding and import of SBT is also illegal. And no, I am not from GB and yes, I own several APBT and other bull breeds (even a BC, a Lurcher and a GH *psssst*) :D.

I'm still human though and love my breed like everybody else theirs. :D I do not keep them for my macho image, nor is my occupation a red lighted one :D. They are great fun and I just love to watch them. Haaaa, don't get me started ;).

Taylor

a question NOT A STATEMENT ...aren't the reasons dogs were bred for the reason for the stigma attached ?while some are bred for temperment others were bred to fight does this not result in peopels opinions ?

Were is the word to consetrate on. My dogs were once upon a time bred to fight(staffies) but now a days are bred as fantastic pets, show dogs etc. If we consentrated on what dogs were originally meant for we wouldnt keep any but the lap dogs.
My apologies for saying statement, it was more of a question that suggested a statement.
Emma

( edited to say no offence to any lap dog breed owners! ;) )

but the point is the dogs are labelled and it sticks in some cases ..unfortunately ..no fault of the dogs..again I say it was a question I asked as, I NEVER said I believe to this day a staffie is a fighting dog ..labels are sometimes what people go on was my question as to why to this day people have to defend the breeds?

" but if someone told me tomorrow be wary of them ..they kill lets say my opinion of the dog would change ..that's just me I have kids and try to have a dog I know the breed . "

If 'someone' told you to be wary of a so-called 'killing breed' that you had trained, owned, and known throughout your life, you would change your opinion, just like that????? That's rather sad. If that's the case, you're pretty gullible if they 'use' the excuse of 'save the children' to convince you of a 'killing breed' :rolleyes:

Obviously, you wouldn't fight against the propaganda wave which begins everytime a cause becomes a mission. Dog breeds have gained and lost reputations over the last decades... as one becomes popular, just due to the concept of being 'safe' and 'wonderful', the puppy mills churn them out to meet the new demand. As a result, the quality of the dog declines. Cocker Spaniels had a terrible reputation in the late 70s and early 80s as being biters and 'terrible to own.' They've been regaining ground, but again, their popularity is beginning to overwhelm. Border Terriers, CKCs, and Staffs will probably gain a bad reputation when more owners have them illtrained around young children too :( :( :(

If you really 'knew' a breed, you'd be able to understand these different publicity tactics and work against them, instead of falling for the propaganda :( :(
toodles

melmel

You say that if previously owned a Dachshund and are a fan of the breed,but there has recently been a serious attack on a baby by a Dachshund.The Dachshund chewed through the netting of the babies playpen and mauled the 6 week old baby,who later had to be resuscitated.I'm sure though that hasn't changed your opinion on the breed in general, it shouldn't!.
I know someone who has a very old pitbull old she is a very sweet tempered dog wouldn't hurt a fly,in comparison my neighbours have a very spoilt yorkie who rules the roost and snaps at anything,it's all down to the difference in training.I myself own a male DDB and 3 of my family members with kids have staffies,all dogs are well bred and brought up and are a pleasure to have in the family.

We had our first dachshund 30 yrs ago and when my sister was born there was a report on a dachshund killing a new baby in the house..so my mum took precautions and never left my sis with her.. we never got rid of her...I know dachshunds to be very dominating and it is different when you bring a puppy in to a family rather than a baby to a full grown dog! Also to those who said that if I like a dog would I turn my back on them if the breed was branded bad..well no I do not judge one dog doing something and say ALL the breed is bad..but I think for the authorities to BAN a dog and DEEM it illegal ther must be some evidence behind it! I am not gullable and listen to every bad thing said on ie:a cocker spaniel ,a dachshund etc..each dog is different it is the ones where the bad trates are popping up too regular that are worrying.Before understanding what a person is saying some people are ready to jump down my throat ?I was after all trying to understand and asking a question..I know people who own pitbulls in a country where it is not illegal and it is a 'cool' thing to own one and they show it off as bad !:)

Hmmm, "punish the deed, not the breed".
I would personally rather develop my own opinion on a certain breed (of any animal) based on my own experience, and that of people i know and trust. I would hate to be so gullible as to believe that "all GSD's eat children" or "all Akitas are vicious" etc etc.
But, you get that all through the animal world. Ever heard "dont trust a chesnut mare", cr@p, i have known and ridden many, some great some not so, but that fable lives on in the horse world, and has done for many years.

Whilst there are people out there who will be intimidated or scared by a certain breed, there will always be those who want to own them for that very reason.
If pit bulls were called "Fluffy Puppyfaced Cutiepies" and that was the registered name, would so many 'hard cases' want to own them. Nope!
Just from my experience, from all the dogs i have met and known over the years, the ones that have caused the most problems with aggression towards people have been Labs, Collies, Beardies and an Old English Sheepdog (who almost bit right through my arm!)
I have known more bull type breeds than anything else, and have not had a problem with any of them, since they were all owned by sensible people.
At the end of the day, us Humans have the ability to make any dog dangerously aggressive, wether its a Yorkie or a Pit Bull.
If someone told you that an Afro-Carribbean person was a murderer, or a Welsh person was a rapist, would that lead you to believe that ALL Afro-Carribbeans are murderers, and ALL Welsh people are rapists. NO, i dont think it would, that would be plain stupid.
Emma

People who have blinkers on are not worthy of a response

Hey Mick.
Had a nice ISBT in for boarding, red bitch, you would have loved her!
Dawn.

It's not the breed, it's the human. By ur own words about a breed killing then u would ban them, how foolish of u. I would much rather live with animals than most humans. Humans kill and I don't see people banning the human race. Animals do what is instinct and how they are raised, if u are going to raise an animal mean then I guess that person should be responsible with any outcome once that bomb went off. I really think people should do their research on a breed and get to know that animal before they are ready to destroy it, that makes them know better then the person that created the bomb. We the human race are suppose to be more inteligent then animals, makes me wonder who's more inteligent at time's.
ttfn :)

Mick,

I read an interesting article in the US version of Readers Digest on Pit Bulls and dog fighting. It's in the Jan. edition. "Bred to Die by Gary Cartwright" I'm not sure if you can access it somehow. I don't have any personal experience with this breed so I can't make any informed comments. I do know that I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping one because I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to dogs. I've got the basics down, but I don't really want to have to "work" at living with my dog. I've got an australian shepherd that is fairly smart, but she also wants to please me. So any training we've done has pretty easy on both of us. :)

Can I just ask something - I thought that when the Dangerous dogs act came in that Pit Bulls were to be neutered and therefore the breed was to be "phased out" so to say . How come people can still buy these dogs ? Or is it that they are now called Irish Staffords ? Can anyone in the know put me straight ? I have a Staffordshire Bull Terrier that comes from an excellent breeder and we intend to train him fully...i hate to see Staffords and other dogs in the wrong hands .There are sooooo many idiots who get these dogs and others as some kind of status symbol and some even take great pleasure that their dogs are aggressive. I suppose this will always be the case with some people .... it makes me mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi,

I have had APBT and other bull and terrier all my life and for the past 5 years run a bull breed sanctuary in the West of Ireland. All the dogs I get in are from pounds, most have a dog fighting history. It is amazing WHAT the dogwardens here call a pit bull. To condemn a breed because of its bad rep caused by mass and press hysteria is proving the fact that people fear what they don't know. Considering the media hype in Germany for example where most of the bull breeds are now banned from breeding and import. Not one German breed has been on the list of dangerous dogs. The GSD and Rottweiler are leading breeds in deadly accidents involving humans since 1968. So what now? Is the GSD a killer? Or the Rotti? No, it's what's on the other end of the leash that's causing the problem.

Taylor

Hi Taylor, it's theresa from Laois here.

I was just going to say that pit bulls are not illegal in Ireland and I have met a few pits and pit crosses. The ones I have met were lovely.

One I took out of the pound the dogwarden classed as a staff cross, and until I took her to Taylor, I was undecided as to what she was as I am not great on the distinctions between pit/isbt, am staff and english staff.

She was the most pleasant dog, great with cats, dogs and people and I never had a problem with her for the few days she was with me.

It's the people on the other end who cause problems a lot of the time. Me personally, I would have a pit in the future if I could, my impressions to date have been all positive. I wouldn't have a pit for the prestige, but because of my impressions to date of dogs I have met.

Theresa

Hi Theresa :),

Polly is still with me and she's going strong, gained weight and confidence. Come and see us soon!

Taylor

Great news, am so pleased, she was a sweetie

Will give you a shout next week

Thanks
Theresa

Hello Quinn

I would never recomend a pit to anyone. I would quite happily have 3 or 4 of my own if they were legal. I would'nt recomend one because I dont think its a good dog for just anybody. The people who should have them know, and dont need to be recomended. Owning any bull terrier can be hard graft both mentally and physically. They also need a lot of time socialising to have modern world freindly dogs.

For Lel yes you are right they are banned and yes they are still available. So is heroin/cocaine/cheap alchohol and cigarettes. You can still get them as well. I considered buying an illegal pit bull, I bought ISBT's instead. My 11 year old pit died last x mas and I really wanted another. I did'nt want to run the risk of losing her, so opted for the legal (so far) ISBT's. Im glad I did as they have been wonderful dogs so far. A joy to own.

Regards Mick

Regards Mick

Mick,
what is the difference between pitbull, irish stafford and american stafford . Are they all the same dog with different names - are there any differences in temperament I'm just curious . Are either Irish or American recognised by Kennel Club ?

They are all different breeds Lel, if you do a search in google you will get info on them
They all look different too, but a lot of the differences are subtle and you really need to know all the breeds to be able to distinguish them.

The AmStaff and APBT are recognised by the American Kennel Club to my knowledge, don't know about the ISBT

One of the most surprising things for me when I met my first pit, was their size, i thought previously they were huge. The Am Staff I met was the biggest of the three breeds that I have met.

Mick feel free to correct me if I have been wrong here

Thanks
Theresa

In the States the AmStaff and the APTB are still dual registered. They both come from the same source, the AmStaff was bred as a show dog, the APBT for *work*. Gameness was the number one thing to look for if you bred an APBT these days, looks didn't matter. As for the ISBT, it's a relativley *new* creation and to me is nothing but a pit cross in Irish disguise. Most ISBT are registered with the S.I.B.T.C. and the I.C.K.C. .

Taylor

Hi theresa

There are various strains of APBT resulting in large and small dogs. This could account for meeting a small one. My red bitch was almost labrodor size. I have also met ones that are no bigger than staffs.

The people into the dogs can on the whole tell the difference between the breeds and spot crossbreeds.

Mick

lel

The uk kc dont recognise either. As for temperament all bully's are similar in my experience. Some are much more bullish than others. The diferences require quite an in depth post to explain clearly. they are not all the same with different names. The eaiest explanation without heated debate is that staffs are a combination of bulldog and terrier crossing in england. ISBT's are a combination of bulldog and terrier crossing in eire. The Amstaff is a result of bull and terrier crossing in america. The origin of the APBT wil always be debated. The bull dogs of the time looked nothing like the bulldog of today. It was a decendant of the bear biters from europe. I like to think that the APBT is a decendant of these original bear biter/bull baiter dogs also, that survived by going to the new world with the settlers from places like the uk and eire, where it and other bear biter/bull baiter type dogs were bred with each other and possibly bull terriers too. It evolved into the APBT we know today.
Mick

:D Let's agree to disagree so.

Taylor

For anyone who's interested,
There is a discussion on the Readers Digest board about the dog fighting.....
click here

My great Grandfather from Dublin had what he called Irish Bull'n'terrriers many years ago,he used them for ratting.Apparently my aunt has a of photo of them,but i've never seen them myself.they were supposedly 3/4 terrier and 1/4 bulldog he got them from a friend called O'Leary who i think bred a few litters of this type.

mick i think you would like the dogs that the breeders i know.not really bull terriers but mainly olde bulldogges(like usa hermes and leavitt)but in uk the main oldes are dorset old tyme by steve barnett and victorian bulldog by ken mollet.u should come to the chat forum where all the dogmen exchange views on most molosser breeds bull and bandogs.i can email you the forum if u like i think you would like it more than this forum as it is specifiaclly for molosser and bull breeds.most the people who post own a moloss or bull type and have many years in it.steve and many people there are very knowlegable.just let me know and i will email this site for you.

Yes thanks. Any sites with info etc are always welcome.

Hi Taylor did you get the second e mail . The first was an error.

Regards Mick.

>>Dont want to offend any pitbull lovers but who exactly likes these dogs..are they to boost egos?<<

You've answered your own question - Pitbull lovers like these dogs!

I own a staffie and hate the constant bad press the bull terriers get. We have a 7 month old baby and I walk our dog with the pram. People still cross over the road with their children - Do they think we would have a vicious dog with a child?!! He is the softest dog and is brilliant with other dogs. This is because we socialized him from an early age and researched the breed.

I agree with most people, it is not the dogs who are the problem, its the owners.

Jill,
we too have a young Staffy pup . We lost our previous Staffy at 14 years old. He was such a brilliant dog - everything that we wanted in a dog actually. He was playful, loved the kids ( loved any human infact ) wasnt aggresive with other dogs etc etc . Thats why we chose to remain with this breed when getting a new pup. We had lotsof ignorant people though that used to cross over the road and utter comments like " That dog should have a muzzle - fancy bringing that dog into an area where there are kids " etc etc . It used to make me mad!!! I must admit it was worse when all the bad press re; pitbulls was in the media . Poeple should get to know the breed first before they make assumptions . But having said that admittedly there are idiots with Staffords and other such breeds that take great delight in showing off their dogs aggressive side . Maybe these owners should be put on a bloody "Dangerous Owners List" !!!
There - rant over!!!!

The problem does'nt just lie with the bad owners, it is also the fault of the press for the sensationalism (distorting the truth) that the reporters are encouraged to do to sell papers. The public at large for believing the crap that they print about these dogs. The goverment and the RSPCA for rushing a law that does'nt control dangerous dogs anyway.

Mick,
I agree its not just bad owners but you must agree that they dont help. Its too easy to get a dog and for idiots who just want a macho dog to brag to their friends how many fights their dog has had or how many cats it has killed etc etc . And yeah the press always seizes on any news of incidents like this . For example a few years ago , every single day pitbulls and other bull terriers were mauling and savaging people nearly every day in the papers - now you dont hear a thing .Have the dogs got better or the papers got bored ??
When my previous Staffy was in his prime , he was a lovely looking well-built dog and we did have strangers coming up and saying what a lovely looking dog he was and had we ever thought of fighting with him as we could make lots of money !!!!!!! Thts the truth .
As someone mentioned previously we should stop the deed not ban the breed !

I posted here in August/Sept in the visitors section when I found out that my gorgeous, sweet, friendly rescue dog was AmStaff cross and therefore an allegedly "viscious" dog. I didn't even know, I thought she was just a cross-breed (an ordinary mutt), it never even entered my mind that she might be "illegal" (incidently I currently live outside the UK and she is legal where I live).

She appealed to me because she was brilliant with kids and when I took my cat to meet her she was sweet with her too (those were my critieria, good with kids and other animals). She's about lab sized (and 5 stone) and yes, she's a fab guard-dog - god help anyone who tries to break into my house... but she's my pet not an ego boost! I love her because she's my doggy - not because she makes me look "hard"!

Hi Francesca
I think I replied to you then. Im Glad you kept the dog.
Mick

Don't mean to be silly but aren't the staffies now known as "nanny dogs" we went to look at one the other day as my hubby loves them we have a small house that is my only concern.

Yes staffs are the nanny dogs. They will live very happy in small houses or flats. However as you have doubts over the APBT I would just like to say that to most people all bull terriers are very similar in nature. There isnt any one variety of bull terrier that has a worse temp than others. The things that trigger attacks with them is the same. Some trigger quicker than others. Obviously if an APBT attacks it does more damage than a staff. This does not mean its more likely to attack.
So if you have doubts about any Bull & Terrier variety, perhaps you should look to another breed altogether. Im not having a go at you, Im offering you sound advice from 36 years of bull terrier experienc of all varietys.
Mick

Thanks Mick..personally I like the smaller breeds and I understand what you are saying...I did eventually tell my hubby to wait as I was not too sure on it so we did not rush into it.