Having seen the chaos that my 4 week old pups are causing in their run in the kitchen, I can see why people move them to sheds, garages and stables.
These will be staying in the kitchen so that they are properly socialised and so that I can spend as much time as possible with them. Surely the whole point in having them is to enjoy them?

I have 1 dog who was kennel/stable bred and he is far more timid than my girls. New situations and noises worry him, whereas the girls shrug it off. I'm sure that a lot of it is because he didn't have the exposure when he was young.

What do others do?

Always in the house, until they go to their new homes, they start in the front room then progress to the Kitchen/ dining room, that way they can see the washing machine, hair driers, hover, television, mops etc all everyday house hold noises and people.

My litter is born in my living room....this is where my girl is used to sleeping and this is where her box is. My house is a relatively quiet house and we rarely have visitors. Any people that might pop in every now and again are told they arent allowed to come lol. Last year my pup were born early december which was very difficult as they couldnt go outside for any more than a few mins because of the snow and it was even way too cold to go into the outside type thing we have that is attached to our house. They basically had the box in the living room which they were locked in at night time and during the day they were allowed to follow me around downstairs as I pottered about and if I had to go upstairs and they were unattended they were locked in the box or shut in the kitchen. They were very good and I made sure they went out every hour or so and were praised everytime they wee'd and poo'd out there. By the time they were 7 weeks they would cry to be out of the box if they needed to toilet, I would pop them out the patio door and they would instantly wee. Pretty much house trained by the time they went home :-) This time Im hoping it will be warm enough for them to go outside for short periods and possibly even the outhouse when I cant be with them in the garden and whilst cleaning their box.
Im the same as you, I love every second of having them. Even with the naughtyness and havoc they cause, I think its all part of the fun lol.
I love just standing washing up and having them running around my feet and playing with each other

Our litters are always in the snug and then progress to the kitchen when they are older.  Wouldn't dream of putting them outside in stables/kennels etc. I don't see the point in having a litter if they were outside.  Love watching them play and develop, spend hours just watching.  They have to get used to everyday noises, washing machine, hoover, TV, radio etc etc. 

Mine spend the first 3 weeks in my bedroom and then come downstairs in a pen in the living room and thats where they stay. If the weather is fine they are allowed out in the garden from about 5 weeks old for a few hours a day.

Mine are born and stay in my kitchen/diner until they leave, they also have a good run around my living room through to the hall.  Although mine are indoors I can totally understand people with a breed that needs more excercise having them outside when they are a few weeks old

mine are also kept in the house. They are born in the dining room which is emptied out and turned into a whelping room with a bed for me , my whelp box is 7ft x 4 ft with a panel in the middle  and a top on one half which I cover with a large blanket.. whelp box is extended as they grow, one side has railings so they can see out  specifically measured so that heads cannot get trapped, once they require more room I add a pen around the outide of the whelp box and remove the slats that make the door , under the pen I place a piece of vinyl for easy cleaning. I also have a pen in the living room with vinyl for a base and alternate from one room to the other throughout the day, making life easier for me to keep it clean and fresh, when they are out of the pen to play I allow them to run in the living room and hall (which is most of the time until they fall asleep).
My other dogs have the kitchen and outside dog area during this time but come in when puppies are in the pen. Puppies go outside for very short periods from 4 wks (weather permitting ) to start toilet training early and play.

Mine are also in the house I couldn't cope with the worry of them in a kennel unattended.  They used to have pups in the living room and then move to the kitchen beut we have an open plan now so the next litter will be born in the kitchen part where there is more room and cosier - although as pups grow I will probably move a sofa flat against a wall allowing for a bigger run.

always in my house, born in room off living room, then once up and investigating i have them in my kitchen so they can sniff around and hear different house sounds, in the evening they spend with us in the living room, and also have part of the garden to play in too, i try to let them experience all house activites so that they are more confident when they go to their new homes. I have a dog that was bred in a shed and she is more nervous  then any of my other dogs that i bred myself.

I've yet to breed a litter myself but ours are all working sheepdogs and Ive yet to see one litter born in someone's livingroom. It's maybe just a different way of life but all our dogs are on farms and live in kennels/barns.

All the farmers that I know who rear their working pups outside accept their loses as natural wastage. :(  That's very different to those who raise carefully planned pedigree litters.

My last litter was born on 1/11/2010 and because they were at the age when they can experience the garden was the time we had all the heavy snow, they didn't get to go out at all, so when they went to their new homes the new owners had the pleasure of watching them go commando style across the garden ;o)

I used to have all my large litters in the living room, then move them outside at 5 weeks. With the snow I couldn't with my last litter -and I will never look back. Yes it was quite, erm, *interesting* to have 9 large puppies peeing and pooing everywhere indoors (especially when they all got diarrhoea!), have them sleep in BED with us as my mum stayed over Christmas and hubby and I had to put up fold down beds in the living room (no spare bedroom so we gave up ours) and we had 5 pups all over the Christmas period. Hard work, but SO much better for them, I will never, ever use the kennel again. Not if I was paid. Oh and I did not use a puppy pen at all for the pups -I put the Christmas tree inside it! That kept it safe and it certainly amused the puppy buyers. :)

Dining room first, then moved to lounge, spending some time in kitchen too. But mine are only toys, and have both been small litters!

just because someone is a farmer, or trials sheep and doesn't rear their dogs in the house, is no reason to think their litter isn't one which has been carefully planned, from long sought-after parents who are dual registered KC and ISDS and have had all the appropriate health tests completed ;)

Our recent litter, our girl decided she wanted to have the puppies in the cupboard under the stairs so off came the door and on went a baby gate.  We got some vynil for the bottom and hoped that would be that!!  Not likely.  They are now 5 weeks and have recently 'moved' into the kitchen where the back door is always open so they are now zooming about indoors and out.  I would hate to leave my puppies outside but I'm sure my neighbours would soon complain as they howl the place down if I even think about closing the door to bring my house to a normal temp!!  A mad run about on the patio for 30 mins knackers them out for hours!!  Yessss.
I am another one that can tell the difference as to where my dogs were raised and would never take another dog which wasn't born and raised indoors.

is no reason to think their litter isn't one which has been carefully planned,
I didn't say that it wasn't carefully planned but as you can see, the attitude to raising a litter and the care involved is very different. :)

In the back bedroom for 3 weeks then down in the lounge, easy access to outside weather permitting.

Mine are born in the living room / dining room it's open plan but we move them into the kitchen where they have more room to run around and explore when they are about 4 weeks. It's good that they experience all the general household noises.
Although I do have a rotty who was born outside in a kennel and she was so easy to housetrain and is the most laid back dog in the world :) we bought her from relatives who also kept a pup out of the litter of 10 I think and our girl is the only one which hasn't been moved on / rehomed :( . They bred their bitch trying to make a quick buck , but after the work of cleaning up after them etc they decided not to do it again thankfully :) .

Altan

I appreciate that the dogs you know might be born outside of the house but does this thread make you think again?

I must confess I have no experience of raising a litter but one does hear so many sad stories about the whelping process, novice bitches, inexperienced owners (not necessarily ignorant just lacking in know-how) it makes me think that anything one can do to care for the bitch and ensure the highest survival rate for the puppies is worth doing.

Altan, apologies for the apparent 'slating' you seem to be getting for your intended raising of pups in a kennel!

I too have dual registered pups, and I have friends who also have them. I am going to totally stick my neck out and say that no, not everyone does whelp pups within a living room or a kitchen or a bedroom. However, that DOES NOT make them a bad breeder. I have spent many a happy hour in a very warm and cosy barn :-) Also, what some people who do only deal with house reared/living dogs do not appreciate is that some bitches are really actually very, very, VERY stressed at being brought inside to raise a litter. But I think people are not appreciating that it is also possible to sleep outside with bitches ... it's just the human part of the group may not be quite as comfortable as the 4-legged party!

To the original poster.

My pups were born in my bedroom (all my working dogs live in the house), they were there for the first 3 weeks. At 4 weeks we alternated between bedroom to living room - bedroom to sleep (aahhhhhh) and living room for play pen. Then we moved to barn. Yes, really, I do mean barn (I didn't have a kennel and even if I did, I'd probably still opt for the barn). Quite a plush barn with a 15' x 30' play pen. There is no way that I could have coped with my pups in my living room of 12' x 16' at 5+ weeks. They were trained to toilet in one part of their play pen, the remainder was bed, and then rest filled up with agility equipment/challenge equipment.

However, my pups were regularly indoors to experience normal household living, and they had the what I would consider to be essential elements of normal socialisation, and indeed probably had far more than most. I have a couple of breeder friend who are farmers who raise pups in the barns/kennels, but that does not mean that they don't bring pups inside to experience normal, household living. My pups went to their new homes fearless, with good house training and generally really rock solid & sound dogs. They were bred to do a number of jobs ... obedience, agility, search & rescue, pet and working.

Farm bred dogs are not always poorly bred dogs :-)

Edited to say, there are kennels and there are kennels. The kennels my farm breeder friends have, each one is as big as my bedroom!!

>Altan, apologies for the apparent 'slating' you seem to be getting for your intended raising of pups in a kennel!

Yes good point and it wasn't my intention either.  I also forgot of course that Altan could sleep in the kennel but rather assumed that wasn't the case - and you know what they say about assume :)

I'll ask instead:  Altan will be be staying with your bitch throughout the whelping and sleeping with her and the puppies for a while?

I do still wonder if threads like this, when so many people offer an alternate view, make anyone change their minds - either one way or t'other

It is possible to combine both.

I have a kennel (a connecting double 2 x 5 feet square) and a run (10 feet x 12 feet) outside the kitchen so pups can have time outside with shelter to play, and time inside in the confinement of a puppy pen (6 feet x 4 feet) which they will not tolerate (sound like demented seagulls) solely once past 4 1/2 weeks.

My breed are very 'outdoorsy' and also like to be clean and want to eliminate well away from their beds and where they play so a pen in the kitchen is not enough for them once they are this age.

Mine used to start in the bedroom when my children were young, nowadays it's the living room as we are much quieter there now kids have grown up.

At two weeks they go in the kitchen where they can have a bit more room, and socialise with the other dogs, and then once older they will spend some time outdoors, and mealtimes and quiet times indoors, including lap time watching TV etc.

Even when outside they are not really separate from the house as they are right outside the back door, with back door mosttly open.  Not free to come and go as they please in deference to the other adult dogs and for safety, but the adults have full access to them (run door only blocked by a board too high for pups but easy for adults to come and go, as well as the humans of course).

Just wanted to add that circumstances and living arrangements, house layout, other dogs, children one has, will all influence how one arranges the rearing of ones puppies.

Just as the way people even with house dogs keep them

Some people allow the dog free access to the whole house including their own beds, others have no dog areas, and every way in between, and still have well rounded well socialised dogs.

There is no one right way, though plenty of wrong ways.

dogs a babe, in answer to your question, no this thread hasnt made me think about changing my mind.Sorry but I am more than confident about my set up and for one thing, it would stress my bitch to no end to suddenly be uprooted from her kennel and taken into the house. As for the kennel - well one could 'assume' all sorts of things, however I doubt you 'assumed' I was referring to a purpose built state of the art 30ft building which is attached/integral to the side of my house? Will I sleep out there? For the whelping most definitely and for first few nights I probably will but after that, no.  But seriously, why should I have to explain myself? Thank you triallist for taking the time to defend the farming/trialling community, I was reluctant to justify myself tbh. As for pups raised in the house being better, well of course I agree, for pet homes! My pups, once old enough will however also come into the house and experience as many things as possible to help them develop into well rounded individuals - purely because that is what I believe is right in order to give them the best start, however none of my pups will be going to pet homes ;)

> There is no one right way, though plenty of wrong ways.

Well said Brainless - I have seen various situations in small animal fancies where certain people are slated for not doing 'the latest thing' or following what others preach, even though they aren't actually doing anything wrong.

Yes I agree....its totally possible to have the best of both worlds...

Mine are born in a barn....but its two storey dry and toasty. The upper floor is set out like a lounge with tv sofas and rugs etc and the ground floor has their Dens at the back...with a gated communal area. This leads out to a daytime undercover communal area to keep them dry (not that they ever use it to keep out of the rain and snow!)....then out again to a large secure outdoor run. This in turn has a gate that leads out into the gardens.....and then a further gate out onto the paddocks....and FREEDOM :)

I do stay with mine to keep a watchful eye though...and even spent one christmas out in the barn...whilst I was well wrapped up with countless layers of winter woolies..my girl was happy contented and totally relaxed. I place hot water bottles wrapped in soft towels around one edge of her den so that she can move away from the heat if she wants to....and when she goes out to stretch her legs and go for a wee the little ones naturally gravitate to the hot water bottles till she and I get back.

Once they are mobile (and boy are Border Collie puppies mobile :) ) they have a large play area to go out to....filled with a ball pit and toddlers slide and steps and tunnels and stuff to play with. Then I start taking them over one by one to the house...across gravel and grass.... and they come and meet the cats...grandkids....whichever adult dogs happen to be in at the time....and get involved with whatever hustle and bustle is happening in the kitchen. By the time they go they are pretty fearless confident little beings.....and ready to start their Big Adventure :) 

I agree that especially the double coated breeds that love the great outdoors DO get extremely stressed....and far too hot if they have to have their little ones inside. 

> Yes it was quite, erm, *interesting* to have 9 large puppies peeing and pooing everywhere indoors (especially when they all got diarrhoea!), have them sleep in BED with us as my mum stayed over Christmas

Marianne - now I know for sure that you are mad!  :-)  :-)  :-) 

> Marianne - now I know for sure that you are mad!

I can't quite visualise it either.... but I would like to ask Marianne  - did the puppies in the bed ever wee or poo when there, and because they were that close to you, did they ask to, even at that young age?

I ask because I (foolishly perhaps?) invited my pup up onto the bed after I'd had him a week or so - had to pick him up & plonk him there, but he slept like a baby, always woke me when he wanted a wee, never had an accident, and I would say it was a defining moment in his housetraining.  He knew he couldn't get down by himself to wee.... and couldn't get back up again on his own to be with me.... 

It came about because I had intended to crate train him, but was let down by crate at the last minute and I just decided to do what came naturally.

>I was reluctant to justify myself tbh.

>But seriously, why should I have to explain myself?

Thanks Altan, there is no reason why you should justify your decision but I for one appreciate that you took the time to explain yourself.  It's so useful to hear of others experiences especially when they represent a breed/view/way of life different to ones own.  

I can't quite visualise it either.... but I would like to ask Marianne  - did the puppies in the bed ever wee or poo when there, and because they were that close to you, did they ask to, even at that young age?

There is photographic evidence on my website if you find the later pages for that litter. ;) (If you can't find it, PM me.) And no, they never did anything in the beds -simply jumped off and walked away into the hall mainly i.e. as far away as possible. They could jump off because this was small fold down beds, one very low, the other slightly higher. The two pups I've kept are 12 weeks now and getting REALLY good at house training already. :)

The biggest advantage with having had 9 pups live so close to us was that when we -once again -ended up having to keep two instead of one, two seemed like NOTHING in comparison!

Mine are born in the bedroom where they spend the first month before moving to the kitchen

Mine are all born in the living room, where I sleep for the frist 2 weeks and then at 3/4 weeks are moved to open plan back room/diningroom/kitchen. When we are all in in the evenings they get a free run of the downstarirs. So they experience everything, all the other dogs, hoover, TV, radio, washing machine, visitors, garden etc.

Surely the most important thing here, is what puppies are exposed to and socialised with?

I can quite imagine that it's possible to have a litter in a barn, say, and to provide adequate stimulation and socialisation for them:  To invite people round to play with them, to provide them with new experiences each day, to carry pups around, to bring them into the house for short spells for a spot of vacuuming and perhaps not the whole litter at once...

This argument about inside versus outside is silly, because providing socialisation needs are met, I can't see much wrong with a litter in a barn. 

The difference is that it requires deliberate planning and forward-thinking to provide enough socialisation experiences when pups are outside, whereas inside pups get what happens to be there (most of the time).

Surely it's 'Horses for courses' ?

My bitches sleep on my bed so I would hardly shut them outside in a barn to whelp.

Equally a dog which spends its life outside would get rather stressed if brought into a bustling household.
Dogs usually seek safe and comfortable places for nesting so somewhere outwith their comfort zone would be unacceptable.