Maverick is now 9 months old (wow!!) and he is put in his crate when i go out and at night.
Im starting to think about when he can possibly be trusted in the kitchen instead of his crate.
I cant remember how old ripley was when i first risked this(turned out she WASNT ready and destroyed various parts of my house!!) she ended up being crated at night until mav arrived (until she was 15months- dont really want to crate mav til he's this old)

So what age did you start to use the crate less and less? or was it a gradual thing?

My concerns are mainly that he will chew (last week he destroyed a framework on his kennel when at boarding kennels) but he was seperated from the other 2 so i think this may have been frustration as ripley was in season in the kennel next door.
Or maybe i should heed the warning he has given!!

Thoughts please!

I do personally think its going to be down to individual dogs. Mine have never been huge chewers.
The youngest who is now nearly 2!! when he was a baby puppy I used a crate at night to help with toilet training and also in the car, I guess he was probably between 4-5 months old, basically when he got too big for the crate I had at the time I stopped using it. Never had any issues re chewing etc since then with him.

I think you have to know your own dogs to know if its a good idea or not. If you slowly stop using it, maybe make sure there is a safe room he can go in, or be with the others during the day and still use it at night and work from there?

Thanks, yes i definately think its down to individual dogs- its just a scary thought taking the plunge after the damage my girl did last year!
Its harder too as i cant really leave high value chews/bones around due to the risk of my bitches fighting over them.

I just know he isnt truly happy in there, i think i may have to make him very! tired before i leave him the first time!

To be perfectly honest I think in some cases the dog will be more likely to chew once out of a cage as there is suddenly more available TO chew, all new and interesting -so better to not use a cage at all as then they learn quicker to not chew -i.e. they grow out of the stage naturally and do less damage when small than when bigger. My ten week old pups sleep in the kitchen at night, they can't leave the room but they are free to move around in there. During the day they have more or less free run of the house and then it's easy to stop them when they start to chew something and teach them it isn't acceptable. I remember when their granny was a pup. She slept in the kitchen at night, had free run of the house during the day, did no damage whatsoever, but then when she was 6 months old I had a disabled friend come to stay for several weeks and as he could not safely move around with an excitable large pup around, I kept her outside all the time (except at night). Once things were back to normal and she was back to staying indoors she started chewing as suddenly everything seemed new to her. She stopped again after a couple of weeks.

hi qwerty
my pup is nearly 10mths old now(in 3 days)and has always been in her crate since day one and was house trained really easy she only goes in her crate at night(her choice she loves her crate)and if i go out,but if i'm only popping to the shops(5mins away)i've know started to leave her in the kitchen on her bed with toys just to see if she is ok and will extend it as the days go by.I must say my pup has been a chewer from the time she got here lol,but she is better now.
So it really is down to what they are like and a little bit of luck and patience lol.
gud luck in what ever you decide and hope it all works out.

nessa 

> To be perfectly honest I think in some cases the dog will be more likely to chew once out of a cage as there is suddenly more available TO chew, all new and interesting -so better to not use a cage at all as then they learn quicker to not chew...

That's interesting!
I had planned to crate-train my dog as a pup but long story short I got let down with the crate at the last minute. Considering my home is usually fairly cluttered (though nothing dangerous is left in reach), he damaged very little during puppyhood and most things that were chewed were harmless (paper, books etc). He was taught very early on what he was allowed to have, with the Swapsies game, and had loads of chew toys and permitted items left around (adding to the clutter of course, but for a good cause!).

Unfortunately I now have a non-crate trained adult dog, and realise it would be beneficial if he was - but he's having none of it... claustrophobic to say the least.

never used one with three border collies, never had anything chewed either. Chewing is associated with stress and bordom as well as teething.
If you keep a dog in a kennel next to a bitch in season what do you expect? Destroying the frame of the kennel would of been escape behaviour so he could get out and in to her.

Nice to give the dog a den though.

If you keep a dog in a kennel next to a bitch in season what do you expect? Destroying the frame of the kennel would of been escape behaviour so he could get out and in to her.

Well, he had shown absolutely zero interest in her whilst at home. I actually think it was more to do with him being seperated from the other dogs of the household, more than him wanting to get to her.

Unfortunately I now have a non-crate trained adult dog, and realise it would be beneficial if he was - but he's having none of it... claustrophobic to say the least.

When Ripley (the granny) was SIX I suddenly needed to cage her at a show. It was the year we had tickets for the first time and she had missed all the shows with tickets bar one due to having pups, so she had just ONE chance to qualify for Crufts the following year. And she came into season the day before the show! So I decided I'd risk it. I'd cage her at the show. (It worked fine and I don't think we upset a lot of male dogs although it's not something I'd normally do as it's unfair on everyone.) I just put the cage up at home and chucked a biscuit in a few times which she went after, then closed it, praised her, and that was all it took. Think I might have given her a bone at the show as well. So you never know!

My lot all have their own crates and love being in them. They settle in them at bedtime,have their sweeties in there and are fed in them. In fact everybody runs to their own crate at meal times. I do crate them when I go out although they have never chewed anything apart from the rubber seal on the back door which Roscoe thought was great fun to pull off if I didnt watch him. They view them as their bed and cosy place and when I tried doing without they just stood looking miserable till I put them back up!

Kind Regards

My oldest is 9 and actually seeks out a crate to lie in. We always had them for puppies and she always had to get in too... now we leave a couple around the place with the doors open and she loves it....it did help that who ever was in a crate was getting tasty food and toys....so she had to have a piece of it too....just seems to have got in the habit of going in...:-)

> So you never know!

Not this boy. He was 8 mths old before he finally agreed to accompany me into a public loo cubicle. And agility tunnels had him quaking in his boots..... He's half BC - very superstitious! With the crate so far, you'd have an easier time tempting a mouse into a mousetrap.

Meantime, I am considering buying shares in a hot-dog company :)

qwerty.
Have only realy used a crate when our pup came to us and we already had his cousin who was a year old. The crate was used at night for some months due to their difference in size & weight, and for somewhere for him to go & rest. As soon as he was big enough they slept together or in their own baskets. Only once experience a problem with chewing and that as another poster has said due to boredom/stress (he had to be contained alone for some months after an op - he had an area in the kitchen) but once he was able to join us again the problem stopped. Prehaps have been lucky or if they did, gave them something like a rugger to chew. It's been usefull having them both used to crates but have only used them for travel, staying away (but even then they will stay in their baskets), or when  injury/surgery has required. Have always thought the younger they are used to having the run of the house, the younger I can deal with any problems.

I do think crates are generally over used (that is coming form someone who does use a crate so not entirely anti them), I think they can be of great help on occasions but I hate the notion that seems to be the norm now that if you are getting a new dog or a puppy that the first thing people seem to think that they must have is a crate.  I think it often leads to dogs haveing to spend lots of time in crates, ie over night and then sometimes several hours when people go out because they have never been taught to spend time alone without confinement or what they can and can't chew.  I think in this situation I would start now. 

Start leaving him for short periods of time with stuff that he is allowed to chew and stuff to keep him occupied like stuffed kongs and appropriate chew toys, preferably something he really likes but that isn;t left down all the time so it does have novelty value.  Make sure you do it to start with after he has been out for a bit of a play/run or you have done some training with him so that he is more settled and a biut tired out.  Set him up for success as much as possible by doing those things and putting as much that might be tempting to chew out of his way as possible, like remote controls, shoes anything else that smells strongly of his people as they are often targets. This is stuff I do with a dog/pup right from get go so that there is never that real worry about things being chewed and destroyed though and I think crates do stop people doing this somewhat as they just reply on them rather than teaching them.  I also think it can lead to dogs being somewhat more anxious about being left unconfined as they are never used to the freedom/space and having choice when alone so they are often more likely to then go looking for stuff to chew as they don't really know what to do with themselves.  So like I say I would start now and build up gradually :-)

I don;t think the damage he did at boarding kennels is anything to go by, firstly boarding kennels are a more stressful place ofr most dogs than being at home and that kind of destructiveness is often about stress but also the frustraion and stress of being next to an in season bitch would have a lot of dogs behaving as he did so I'm not surpised in the slightest that he did that and certainly wouldn;t take it as a sign that he'd be destructive at home as it is a very very different circumstance and what he did there was completely understandable.

Hi Querty

Our current pup is from our recent litter so was born here. However, when the rest of the litter went, I used the crate for the first few weeks (in another room) until she was clean throughout the night (she's now 20 wks). I also didn't want her to be at any risk sleeping with the "big dogs". Also, her mum didn't show much joy at having her around to start with (different story now!), so I thought it best at the time.

By about 12 weeks, she could hold her toilet all night, and I felt it would help the bonding with the adult dogs, if she was sleeping with them. So I kept the crate open in the same room for a couple of nights, but she straight away slept with the adults, their Tuffie beds are all touching each other. We havent looked back, have had no chewing, and they all cuddle up together which is great!

As others have said, some pups once they have the freedom will start to destroy stuff, but you won't know until you try I suppose...

I cant remember how old Fred was but i think it varies down to the individual dog.
Do it gradually and perhaps just test the water to see how you get on. If hes left in the kitchen for half hour or so while you pop out and come home to find he's been fine, treat/praise him and try leaving him a bit longer next time. (This was what i did)

Make sure you have lots of tasty chewable things around for him - I like Nylabones lots for mine - if he likes chewing wood, that tells you something about his favourite texture/density to chew - so try to find similar Nylabones.  (Every dog has a preferred texture to chew on!).

Then do it gradually - first few times, tell him to go in his crate as usual, but then just leave the crate door open.  Only pop out somewhere for 30 mins or so.  Keep it around that time until you start to feel more confident about it.  When you're always leaving the door open, you can get rid of the crate if you like.  (Hurrah, no more giant metal thing in the corner of the room!).