Just thinking after reading White Lily's post and it got me wondering what causes pups to be born out of their sac's ? My girl had a litter of 10 last year and all of them apart from the first one were born already out of the sac. They were all born back legs first as well (not breach presentation) , tail and back legs appeared first , any thoughts on the reasons for this ??
Lucy x

Don't know but it is as common as having them born with sack intact.

I suspect that the placentas don't detach from the uterine wall in these cases so pup progresses minus the sack, and the placenta and membranes follow later , sometimes not until the next day.

Some sacks are very thick and even double and triple layered by the time pups are born, some are tattered and torn or absent.

About half of all pups are feet first, which is not breach but normal for canines.

Thanks Brainless , thats very interesting as my bitch retained more than half of her placentas for quite some time after the birth.

My recent litter of 11 were all bar one ( he was born with Oxytocin) out of their sacs and the bitch retained most of the placentas causing Endometritis. Another bitch of mine retained all her placentas with both litters, despite us treating prophylactically with anti biotics for the second littter she had Endometritis both times. Sometimes placentas dont detach if the litter is early or sometimes its just a mal function of the womb.

I don't know either..... but knowing that canines are able to reabsorb the whole litter early on if something "isn't quite right"...and knowing that a canine is able to delay labour if something "isn't quite right".....then I often wonder if it has to do with the girl delaying labour herself because she's not feeling quite secure enough...??

I bitterly regretted all the decisions I made on behalf of my girl with one litter...I had her scanned so all the soft belly fur was gone...I was backwards and forwards to the vet with her...I had moved her Den at the last minute...I fretted about weighing puppies...whisked her and the pups off to the vet for a checkup. My stress levels were so high that even that would have been enough to make her feel insecure. Poor girl :(

Now I don't scan...don't interfere with her Den...keep everything as calm and peaceful as possible. When she starts I give her solitude and just observe the miracle quietly from a distance..I don't speak...have as lower light as possible....and don't handle the little ones for at least several days to allow her to bond with them. I trust her instincts...and am better able to trust my own judgement that both she and I will know if something is wrong....

I dunno...I sometimes think that everything can get a bit too "high tech"...and I'm not always sure its the right thing to do given that Mother Nature has been overseeing the miracle of birth for eons

Wow. I would love to let my girl do everything herself, I bet you swell with pride watching her. Mine are big, clumsy oafes so I have to help or I would lose the whole litter probably. I wish I didn't have to keep touching and moving them but she is constantly sitting or lying on them.

Yes my heart does swell with pride.....its almost comparable to the joy I felt watching my grandson being born :)

The only two puppies I have ever lost personally were two that died within a week of their first vaccine at 8 weeks old. I vowed there and then to do all I could to prevent it happening again as it broke my heart. I do totally understand the anxiety that comes along with our precious Girlies having puppies.... and I know that even though they might not understand our words...they are constantly reading our "energy" like we are an open book....

Just out of interest have you ever lost a puppy through Mum lieing on one of them.....or is it out of a fear that she might...??

> Just out of interest have you ever lost a puppy through Mum lieing on one of them.....or is it out of a fear that she might...??

I have lost one after a long labour, we both fell asleep. 

In her first large litter she was so careful it came as a great shock.

So even though my breed are usually pretty natural mothers I still dive in at every squeak to check all is well for at least the first week, but often until eyes are open.

Hi lucy im so glad you done this post ,ive been wondering myself, my girls pups were born with sacks left in mum apart from the 2 born from oxicocin jab so im wondering if it has anything to do with the way they contract!!??
just my thoughts xxx

Yes i thought that might be the case too Jo , it is something that has worried me as i remember when i mentioned it to my vet after the last litter he indicated it was a sign of something being wrong but didn't really elaborate. None of my pups had any probs at all x

> Some sacks are very thick and even double and triple layered

I saw my first triple layered sac several years ago, and the bitch left me to see to it.

Barbara, I thought I would never get it ripped open!  I was amazed how tough it was, and almost got a pair of scissors to the bit just under a pups chin.  It took me so long that I was worried that the pup would suffocate.  I'm not the panicky type, but it certainly had my heart racing!

> They were all born back legs first as well

My two breeds have at least half of whelps presented back feet first.  I thought it was the usual.  I have only ever had two genuine breech pups though, in many years of breeding.