Hi I was wondering if any of the Bernese owners could help me please ?  Or anybody who may have any ideas.

I have a 41/2 year old Bernese male castrated and hard too keep the weight off.  He has done very well lately with a very strict diet and was looking very well and energetic many of our friends we meet up with for walks had commented on how well he looked and how much more energy he had.

On the 1st December we went out for our usual walk and met a friend with her OES who Ollie wanted her too give chase too him and he went haring off over the field no trips or accidents came in absolutely fine.  Within an hour he seemed uncomfortable and panting.  Later in the day he wanted to go upstairs for cuddles on the bed this is what he does when under the weather.  Anyway long story short we ended up taking him as emergency to the RCVS at Potters Bar he is very stressed by the vets so he was muzzled and examined no obvious signs of what could be wrong except that he hadn't urinated for a while so put down too possible urine infection.  We came home with him and he had a morphine based injection to help him till the morning when we could see our own vet.  Must point out that neither visit did he present any lameness.  We were given anti biotics by the vet and to too try to get  a urine sample he didn't pass urine till 10 pm that evening.  We were then on our way back to the RCVS as his back legs kept collapsing under him he was sedated admitted  and came home yesterday. 

He has been tested for just about everything and is baffling everyone.  He can support his weight now but he is swaying like a ship at the back end this is what he did on Thursday 2nd December and although not collapsing he is laying very low on the back end almost like a GSd with DM.  His hind legs seem all over the place when he walks.

His neurologist felt as we would be able too manage him he would be better at home now.  We are still waiting for the result of one more test Myathensia Gravis but have another 2 weeks too wait.  On the Saturday after being admitted he had lost control of his back legs completely and couldn't get up let alone walk but has improved since that episode.

I was wondering if anyone else has had this with their dog and if any of the Bernese owners on the site may have any ideas.

We cannot fault the staff at RCVS they have been wonderful especially as he is a difficult dog around strange people and places and they managed too bond with him so well with time and patience.  He is still under their care.

So if anyone has any ideas or any experience even if the prognosis was not good please I would love to hear I am prepared for the worst but hope it will not come to that.

Sorry for the long post as this is my first one too.

Hi Lynn59 I am sorry to hear of your problems with your lad. I must say it does sound like some kind of spinal inj to me. I assume they have looked at that possibility? have they scanned him at all? it may help to MRI his back to check for swelling/fluid around the spine. The other thing that comes to mind is DM as you say if that is how he is presenting it is a possibilty. I have a firend who's BMD has DM and he showed symptoms very quickly though is improving wonderfully with treatment. It is something which cannot be 100% diagnosed except by ellimination of other causes.
I hope they can get to the bottom of it for you as it is such a worry.
How is he in himself? is he eating drinking and toileting OK?
A ESS that walks with us in the park had a similar problem and was very poorley after numerous tests etc... it came back that he had started to go down with a water infection caught they think from swimming on very cold days, only for it to track up into his spine, he had cysts in his spinal colum and was very unsteady on his feet, It took the vet quite a while to diagnose and is very rare, he has been on 6 weeks of anti-biotics and is now fully recovered. I do not know the clinical name but will try to find out for you, I do not see his Mum every day so bear with me on that one.
Hope someone else can shed some light on it for you.
Best wishes to you and him and fingers crossed for some explanation.
Aileen

Thank you Merlot. He has had an MRI and a scan and an ultrasound scan  and a chest x-ray and a spinal tap, which showed a very small patch of white fluid but his neurologist says it is too small and the wrong shape to indicate a stroke.

He has also been diagnosed with mild hip dysplasia and arthritis in his left knee (rear) and a small amount of arthritis in his back near his I think right shoulder blade also a pinched nerve showing but nothing significant and nothing too warrant the extent of the problem and how quick it presented itself.

I am still thinking possible DM I have read it is rare to come on so quick but can come on in very quickly in rare cases.  We will keep going with him while he is happy and when things get too much we will let him go I cannot let him suffer.  The minute I think that is happening I will use my head not my heart I love him too much to see him struggle.

He is eating and drinking and popping out too the garden to do his business we use a ruff wear harness with the handle on the top so we can assist him if he looks like he is struggling.

Hi Lynn,
I've been having a good think about this and went back to the Bernfax as I recall a friend who's dog had problems. Her boy didn't go downhill quite as quick as your boy has, but he was diagnosed with Lumbral Sacral, but seeing as you've had MRI and Spinal Tap's i'd of thought something like that would of shown up.

Another thought was that your boy is displaying similar symptoms to another friends of mine, different breed who had meningitis, again though it was the Spinal Tap which located this.

Both dogs were referred to the following who are the top people in the field, so maybe worth thinking about being referred there? But then you are at the vet school right now?
http://www.fitzpatrickreferrals.co.uk/

How about giving Steve Green the breed club health guru a call? You'll find his number on here at the bottom of the page http://www.bernese.co.uk/Club%20Web%20Pages/Clubcontacts.htm#BERNESE_HEALTH

Let us know how Ollie gets on x

Thank you SJ.  We will stick with the RCVS it is very good and they have everything there for tests and Ollie has now got use to the neurologist there so I don't really want too stress him out anymore than I have too.

I may well email the chap mentioned though too see if he has any ideas so thank you very much for the link.  I will also look up the Lumbral Sacral.

I will keep you posted.  Once again thank you for the ideas very helpful.

Another thought Lynn.. Have you contacted his breeder? She/He may have some answers to this?

Good Luck with it all

Sue

Have kept his breeder in the loop no ideas though.

Have you had both the tests for hypothyroidism,as some of the symptoms can be similiar to MG?

Thank you for the reply.  Yes the hyperthyroidism test was done.

I am up at silly o clock he needed to go to the toilet then came in and was sick.  So I will stay up with him now.

Poor ollie I do hope he gets better soon

Neosporidium can cause these symptoms?

Thank you Ff and anworth.  Interesting link. 

Keep us updated as to his progress, hope you see some improvement soon x

Hi Lynn. I'm so sorry to read your boy is so poorly, but take comfort he is being treated by the best.
Has the specialist made any mention of GME or of starting him on steroids ?

Thank you all about the same today with regards to the legs, but eating and drinking well.

Peanut no not steroids as yet the neurologist wants to see what the myasenthia gravis test comes back as because the medication for it has some awful side effects and the steroids would cause more muscle wastage so until we are sure whether it is that or not she wants to steer clear for now.  We would then discuss prognosis and side effects and decide what route too take.

Oh bless him....he seems very young to be experiencing such horrid problems...?? :(

You mention that a pinched nerve has shown up on one of his tests....just this alone would be a source of much misery and discomfort and may be helped by Chiropractic manipulation...?? In any case if it were my dog.... I would also be seeking referral to a Homeopathic/Holistic Vet so I could have all options and opinions available to help him......

Where is he in relation to his booster vaccinations...??
The following excerpt is from the Canine Health Concern website
(full article here - http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/DVD%20Info%20Pack.html )

The UK vet Christopher Day observed that around 80% of patients first became ill within three months of vaccination. CHC conducted the world's first independent vaccine damage survey to test this observation. There were over 4,000 dogs in the survey. We asked, if your dog is ill, when did he become ill in relation to the vaccine? We were astounded by the results, which are published in full in Catherine O'Driscoll's book, What Vets Don't Tell You About Vaccines.

91% cases of Ataxia (a neurological problem) occurred within three months of a vaccine event.
81% of dogs who had tumours at their vaccine sites, first developed the tumours within three months of being vaccinated.  (Studies also show that cats and ferrets develop terminal cancer at their injection sites.)
78.6% of dogs with encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) first developed the condition within three months of being vaccinated.  This is where conditions like epilepsy arise, and where many behavioural problems start. 
73.1% of epileptic dogs first became epileptic within three months of being vaccinated.
65.9% of dogs with colitis developed the condition within that first three months, and vaccines are also known to cause food-related allergies. 
61.5% of dogs developed liver failure within three months of being vaccinated.

The above figures were chosen at random from our findings to illustrate the principle to you: vaccines may be protecting our dogs against viral disease, but they are doing so at a very high price. If vaccination had no bearing on subsequent illness, only 25% of dogs should become ill in each three-month period.  It is also worth noting that one study showed that vaccines cause dogs to develop autoantibodies against their own DNA.  Vaccines are therefore theoretically capable of causing inheritable disease. 

Hope you find a way of helping him xx

They have looked into the pinched nerve further and say it is not connected too that.  It is not enough too warrant the symptoms he presented when he was admitted.

He has now developed a dip between his eyebrow bone and cheek bone not noticeable till today and if you feel it is quite a big dip, he does have muscle wastage on the top of his head.

His neurosurgeon is saying possible re-admittance and re-run the muscle tests we would rather take him in and wait and bring him home again we really do not want him hospitilised again unless absolutley necessary.  We will also be discussing the possibility of the drugs.

I decided not too have him vaccinated this year.

He has eaten and had a  drink today but was very reluctant too rise this morning took us two hours to convince him to go out and have a tiddle.  He has been a little better I have been out to the garden with him again but he keeps needing too rest.

He keeps looking wistfully at the gate to go out onto the field but we  dare'nt we have been told too confine him too the garden and he is not allowed out there unattended in case he takes a fall.

Hi all for those that replied to my first post and wished Ollie well thank you.

Here is an update.

He does not have Myasthenia Gravis.  His neurologist is a little baffled as we are to say the least.  She is convinced it is some sort of nerve issue.  We have been keeping a diary for her and he has improved somewhat with the walking although he is still ataxic and on the odd day his back legs have a little trouble, and his front leg gait is still short and walks with his front legs quite wide apart.

He is following us around the house more and rising on his own better and eating standing up from his raised food bowl which I am pleased about.  We can her him move about although carpeted as his front paws come down very heavy.  He is brighter some days and other days he is quiet to be expected I suppose being cooped up for 5 weeks now.

The neurologist and I discussed his progress and yesterday decided although he was better he had not moved on enough in her opinion to allow him to carry on without some intervention to try to get him to a point where he may be able to go out for small walks if not every day a couple of times a week at least so he started  prednisilone yesterday.  Her worry is he does have some muscle wastage to his head already and she and I know the steroids will cause more muscle wastage but if we can give him some quality of life even for a short while it will be better than not trying.  As a family we have agreed this is our best possible option even though we are now on our last hope.

We are hoping he can move beyond where he is now with the help of the steroids.

Hi Lynn59
I am sorry that things are not improving as you would hope. Poor Ollie he must be feeling very fed up. These Berns do cause some heartache but they are worth every moment. I hope the steroids help and give him a better quality of life. I know it is hard to occupie a dog with mobility problems, What does he eat? is it a possiblity to feed him part of his daily rations from a Kong or a treat ball? It may give his mind a bit of "excersise". We have various shaped kongs the most exciting to the girls is about 9 inches high and like a "weeble" as in it is weighted at the bottom and they have some treats in there and spend ages playing with it to get at the grub! I got it from pets at home..not cheap but worth it. Would he be mobile enough to play in the house with it? Failing that a normal giant rubber kong with some goodies inside (I always plug the open end with some cheese or pate or moist dog food) and he can lay in one place and play with that. It will give him something to fill his days.
I do hope he improves keep us informed of his progress.
Berner hugs and licks from the girlies to him and from us.
Aileen Pepsi, Merlot and Vino.xxxxxx

Thank you Merlot.  I have put him onto a kibble diet now and a light one to try to keep the weight off him he is prone to putting on the unds and now with the steroids and no exercise at the moment he is going to have a problem.

I am now splitting his daily allowance into three meals and he had a small lunch time snack with some kibble in a Kong I went out for lunch with a friend today and my Husband was at home and he said he did well with it he can stand for small amounts of time so chasing it around the floor for a bit will help with his boredom issues I hope.  It is a goo job he is very laid back in the house many dogs would be climbing the walls by now.

They certainly do cause heart ache but as you say worth every minute.  He is our first and we did our research and knew the problems we may face with them health wise.  You are never quite prepared though are you ?

Lynn,
Sorry this is still going on for you, but wish you all the luck with Ollie :-)

I currently have a dog which is on pretty much complete rest and is confined to 1 room, like your boy mine is very laid back and just sleeps. He has no interest in toys or even a kong..

bernese hugs to you and ollie :) a kong is a brilliant idea to stimulate him while house bound, my bernese love their kongs! :)

I am sorry SJ you have one of your beautiful boys on house rest too.  Nothing serious I hope.

Thank you Gemini05.  We will see how he gets on with the steroids now and he seems to like the idea of a midday meal even though he doesn't realise he isn't getting anymore.

At least it breaks the day up giving him more frequent smaller meals. I think the fish sticks are non-fattening or can he have a marrow bone to chew on? Do you leave the radio or telly on? One of mine was glued to Animal Planet!

Ooh just thought of one thing my boys adore and can't get enough of, hooves. I buy them filled, but you can buy them plain.
RachelSetters on here recommended them and boy she was right about dogs loving them..

As a person who had "just a pinched nerve" and could hardly walk for almost 12 months I wouldn't be surpised if it could be just as simple as that.

Thanks SJ have seen those around.

Perrodeagua thank you.  It would be nice if that is all it is.  Can I ask how was yours  diagnosed as Ollie has had all the scans done and all the x-rays and nothing like that was showing up.