I never thought that I'd post a question on this board, but banter on another board has got me thinking, not hugely seriously admittedly, but there's a thought strand coming through.

I'm looking at a Show Schedule (Champ show but am assuming terminology is same at whatever level) I've already ruled out I'm not eligible for Minor Puppy, Puppy, Junior or Veteran. So, to my reckoning, that leaves another 7 classes I have absolutely no idea whether I'd be eligible or not. Bearing in mind I have dogs ranging from 2 1/2 yrs to 6 yrs, none of whom have ever stepped in a Show ring themselves, nor indeed have I, there seem to be the following options: Maiden, Novice, Graduate, Post Graduate, Mid Limit, Limit, Open ... listed in that order. I'm assuming that the idea would be to start off in Maiden and you would progress through to Novice, then to Graduate, and not just leap in at Open on your first show. Am I close?

Edited to add that I am aware of ring craft, etc, so I know it's not as easy as just going into a ring with your dog ... I might come to that another day!

In every show schedule there is a list of classes and those eligible for them.

Apart from age classes, the others work on the handicap system..ie the more the dog wins  the fewer classes it is eligible for.

So if you have a 5 year old dog entered in maiden ( a class for those who havent won ) it either hasnt been shown or is of such poor quality it cant win.
Limit is the class for the dogs which have won up to the top of the handicap and Open is, as it says, open to all - six month pups up to breed record winning champions.

As the nack is to win the class, one should be entering into the class you feel you have most chance of winning.

There are other more subtle factors of course ;-)

> I'm assuming that the idea would be to start off in Maiden and you would progress through to Novice, then to Graduate, and not just leap in at Open on your first show. Am I close?

Yes and no depending on what you want/expect :) If you want to have fun with your dog, get some advice and maybe even a place then you'd start in maiden. However, if say you had a 4 year old dog that you had never shown, but you yourself knew what you were doing and thought this dog was really good - you wouldn't put it in novice or post grad because people would wonder why a dog that old was still in that class. So in that case, even if the dog had never won anything in it's life, because it hadn't been shown, you would put it in open :-)

Hi yes I would go with your thinking of maiden and moving up as you and your dog gain experience and wins but if it were ch shows (where tickets on offer) and you wanted to qualify fir crufts then you'd need to check what classes your breed would need to enter to enable you to qualify
hope that helps
vicki

> you wanted to qualify fir crufts then you'd need to check what classes your breed would need to enter to enable you to qualify

Bells ringing here re a thread not long ago - If a dog has won something in a working category (OB, HWTM, AG, WT or sheepdog trials etc) then it can qualify for Crufts anyway, can't it?

That would be stud book number :-)

Hi all, many thanks for taking time to reply and explain. It all sounds completely gobbledy gook to me so I think when I get to entering a 'Show' show we'll just go into Open and see what happens!!

Oooh, ooh, but if MsTemeraire is correct ... maybe we should just head for Crufts instead :-D

OK, I jest, I do appreciate attempts to make me wiser, honestly :-)

Hi yes you have it correct but I would also balance it out a little by taking the ages of your dogs into account so would tend to put them in classes starting from Graduate upwards although I wouldnt neccasarily enter  Open as Limit is also a serious class however the show champions cannot enter that so you could avoid them to start off with.

Edited to add
Now I need herding lessons from you

Thank you ... that's what I need, someone to tell me what to enter. I would like to enter a show, for my experience mainly, but I'm under no disillusions, I have tris and a boy who I think is breed standard spot on - 'cept for his 1 up 1 down ear. It would be an interesting experience - probably for all concerned. Thanks for your help ... know any good ringcraft classes in our neck of the woods?

Hmmm thats more difficult as we dont have many. There is one in Workington, one in Barrow last time I checked,  and a couple of different ones at Carlise but I'm not sure about any others.

Do you have any private trainers who have shown in the past who might do 1:1, or any avid handlers who might help?

I know a few people who do show so I feel some phone calls coming on.

I would enter the lower classes and Post Graduate (which is a Crufts qualifier)

Open will have the real contenders for top honours and the champions.

In my breed it is normal to enter multiple classes at our breed club hsows.

The day I won our first CC with my Jozi she was a Junior.

I had entered Junior, Special Yearling, Graduate, Posat Graduate and Special Beginners bitch.

She won all five classes so the challenge only had five class winners left including us. 

She was Reserve Best in show and went on to get 4 more CCs that year.

>The day I won our first CC with my Jozi she was a Junior.
>I had entered Junior, Special Yearling, Graduate, Posat Graduate and Special Beginners bitch.

Isn't it normal to withdraw after winning your class to ensure you remain unbeaten or have I got the wrong end of the stick?  Our breed gets CC's for the first time at Crufts this year so I'm trying to learn the differences :)

Isn't it normal to withdraw after winning your class to ensure you remain unbeaten or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

No you're not allowed to do that.

>No you're not allowed to do that.

No of course - yes - breed classes - duh!!  Mind you isn't it a bit risky to enter that many classes?  I only ever did it once by mistake and luckily won them both but had I been beaten by an older dog in the subsequent class (not entirely unlikely :) ) then I would have lost the opportunity to go into Puppy Group (all group show).

Incidentally is it a breed thing?  Entering multiple classes seems to be 'not the done thing' in my breed.  One woman who enters her dog in every class at every show appears to be frowned upon.

If the "older dog in a subsequent class" was a Puppy then yes you would be  beaten dog and unable to go forward to Pupy Groyp. if it was not a Puppy then you would have remianed an unbeaten Puppy. If the older dog was a Puppy then chances are you would have come against it or any other Puppy that had beaten it anyway as unbeaten puppies for the challenge for BP.

Multiple classes are OK of you are after a qualification for Crufts but if your eyes are set on the challenge ( most unlikely as a Puppy) then one class entry is probably better.

Mind you isn't it a bit risky to enter that many classes?

It really depends on your reason for being there, if you are interested in winning with your eyes on getting to Best in Show then you enter one class and make sure it is one you think you can win. If on the other hand you are there to enjoy your day out and meet friends and admire other peoples animals then the more the merrier, become involved and enjoy the competition not the winning then enter most the classes you are eligible for only leaving out the very advanced ones where you and your exhibit would feel out of place.

And of course if you are beaten in another class you wouldn't have beaten that dog in the challenge anyway. I remember with Henry once at a champ show we won Junior but only got 3rd in PG, everyone was telling me it was a shame I'd entered 2 classes because now I couldn't go into the challenge, but if I couldn't beat those dogs in the PG class I wasn't going to beat them in the challenge either!

Can I just say that it would be worth looking at Open Show schedules?  Champ Shows are very expensive and a novice handler can make a good dog look rubbish!  So it might be worth doing Open Shows until you've learned the handling terminology and are slick enough to show your dogs to their full potential. :) :)

Hi, thanks very much to everyone for replies. Yep, completely confused now :-D  I will look at Open shows, it just happens it was a Champ show schedule sent with my breed club membership.

I have got the most fabulous dogs :-D :-D but each is different in colour and size, so I am not looking at entering breed shows with an expectation of wins. However, I would like to dip my toes into the 'breed' world (we have got a few doggy relatives who have & have done well, so it's not such an outlandish idea. I am now enquiring with some people locally about ring craft :-)

Start with ringcraft, then Open Shows.  As you learn more - it's a bit like learning to drive a car co-ordinating everything :) - then progress to the more expensive Champ Shows.

You already know that "I have got the most fabulous dogs :-D :-D" so go out there and enjoy the other dogs and dog people. :) :)

> Mind you isn't it a bit risky to enter that many classes? 

Not really your chances of the top award are small, so I would rather see how well I can do at leach level of competition and if they are that good they will win all the classes and probably have stuck in the judges mind, have knocked out more competition before you get to the challenge for the top award.

As I said the challenge ended up having only 5 bitches instead of a possible 13 or so.

My latest champion bitch was often entered in several classes at all breed champ shows as I was after Junior Warrant points and with such low numbers in the young classes meant I needed to enter a puppy up to Post Graduate and when she was a Junior as far as Limit.  It worked for me, but with second entries getting to £4 not something I can do so much now due to cost.

Breed club champ shows are a bit different and will have a much bigger cross section of exhibitors from rank novice to seasoned, so it is worth entering, and with classes like Maiden etc a chance for the newbie to have a chance.