Hi, I have a litter which I have endorsed the KC papers, I have applied for the papers and waiting for them in the post. I just wondered do you (the breeder) or the new owner send the papers back to the kennel club?

I have included a contract for the new owner which would obviuosly need to be signed by the person who's name will be going on the KC papers and wondered whats the best way to go about transfering the papers over to the new owner?

I want to make sure I get it right as I understand the endorements could end up being removed if the kc papers and contract are not completed correctly.

Thanks

i'll watch this with interest :)

The new owners, upon receipt of the KC registration certificate from you, fill in the name address and then they sign and return to the Kennel Club if they so wish.

The contract is quite another thing entirely.

A contract has to be for each identifiable puppy and given to the new owner for them to read at their leisure - before the date of collection of the pup. This is then returned for you to countersigning  and each party keeps a copy.

A contract signed on the day of purchase is extemely unsafe legally - as the buyer can claim ( quite rightly) that they were too excited about the puppy to read carefully enough.

I had the same dilema last summer when I bred my litter. Ideally I wanted to be able to hand over all documentation to new owners with everything in their own name. My dogs have dual registration, so 2 lots of registrations and fees.

I registered the litter with the KC in my name so that I could apply the endorsements. This I did pretty much as soon as the pups hit the ground. Typically, a mess was made of papers (endorsements not put on, name issues) and I didn't get the correct papers back until long after the pups had left (like 4 months after I'd submitted the forms :-( ! However, they were in my name which was the important bit. I just signed the back of forms as breeder and sent them onto the new owners. It's down to them to register in their names or not.

So long as you have registered the pups in YOUR name, then there's no reason for endorsements to be removed. You can only apply them when the pups are in your name. Your contract with owners should have no bearing on any KC documentation. If you're an AB and you don't have the KC registrations to hand to new owners when they collect their pup, then so long as you tell the new owners that the registrations papers will be forwarded to them as soon as possible that is fine. This I also checked out with the KC. Also under the AB scheme, the registration documents don't have to be transferred into the new owner's name.

From the replies I got to a similar question last year, it seems that there are quite a number of breeders with many dogs still registered in their names, after all, not all puppy owners will be bothered about transferring into their own name.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Ooops, I see toolz has already replied with much the same ... I started this just after 10am honest, I just had a looooong distraction!!

PS - having just read toolz reply. What I did with my contracts was to let them read before collecting puppies, as suggested, but I also included another signature bit immediately below the section containing the endorsements - maybe overkill, but someone on CD had suggested doing that on another thread and I thought it sounded a good idea. Actually it was more a line for them to initial. That way I was doubly sure they understood what this meant - after another explanation :-D

I give the signed papers to the owners as per instructions, there is a fee to pay to transfer the ownership.

As the registration document has important information I want the new owners to have ti to hand to read at their leisure.

Unfortunately it does mean that around half of owners never bother to transfer the ownership into their names.

It had never occurred to me to offer to do it for them, for me that was part and parcel of getting my dog. 

Some owners may not have considered how they want the ownership registered, just themselves, jointly with partner, family member etc.

The litter I bred 2yrs ago still have 2 pups in my name..the new owners havent bothered to change them over!
All went with endorsements on the KC papers and a signed contract, I wouldnt do it any other way.

I give potential owners a puppy pack when they see the litter (not necessarily to pick a puppy) at around 4-5 weeks old so they can take it home to read and ask questions on their next visit. Enclosed in this information is a checklist of what they are given at the time and it will always say KC reg to follow. There is also a contract which we both sign and have a copy each. It explains that there are endorsements on the pups KC registrations document (and the reasons why) and if they don't agree with it then they don't have a puppy. When the owners collect the pup I fill in their tattoo number on this contract and this identifies the puppy. The owners have always been happy that they will get the KC reg (most do transfer them) and when the paperwork comes through I ring the owners & ask if they want joint/single names etc and I fill in the name/address they have given me and send it on to them for them to sign/send off. So, no, owners never get the registration papers when they take the puppy home. For this reason alone I would never be accepted onto the ABS!

This is the way I've always done it, it's worked for me, and a lot of people are known to me & some have had a pup from me previously.

Hi on the collection day the owners re -read the contract which they have already read when they visited us the first time, they sign this stating they accept the endorsements and terms of sale, this is then photo copied and they take with them the copy we retain the original.
There Kennel club papers are here waiting they complete there  new owners address details, we then give them to front page and retain the portion which needs to go to the KC all of the papers them are sent off to the KC along with the fee which I pay, this ensures all the puppies are transfered into their new ownership.
Kate

> we then give them to front page and retain the portion which needs to go to the KC

I don't understand this, as the the registration cert is the bit that goes to the kennel club as it is the back of it that is signed and the front has the reg details????? 

The only other page is the KC advertising?????

Yes the front page is just sales stuff like frames and 10 generation pedigrees etc.

To WolfieStruppi

May I ask why you take so long to register the puppies? The KC turnaround is less than 2 weeks now, even less if done online.

I dont see the reasoning to deliberately make owners wait for their certificate when it could go in their puppy pack.

Toolz - for a variety of reasons. I don't see it as deliberately making the owners wait and I don't do it with that in mind. Sometimes I want to keep a puppy and want the best name, sometimes it takes me ages to even think of the 1st choice, let alone 2nd and I like to match the name to the character of the pup. None of my owners has ever mentioned it. They know I will stick to my word and as pet owners they've got what they want - a furry bundle and they are not worried about not taking another piece of paper home with them (unless it's newspaper to put down at night).:)

Fair enough, just though it may be useful to know :-)

> Sometimes I want to keep a puppy and want the best name,

but until you chip or tattoo the pups as long as you have the right sexes you can keep which name fits which pup by the time they go.

I spend the time from when the pregnancy is obvious thinking of names and then when pus are born I choose my favourites and then allot them to the pups as they develop, but often I have an idea of character by about 4 weeks and usually register puppies at about 2 weeks of age when I know they are all likely to survive.

I would hope that the people who have sought out a well bred KC registered puppy would be wanting that KC reg to see and have, even if they don't bother with the transfer, otherwise they would buy one of the many unregistered pups out there.

Also the registration confirms officially the health testing the parents have had, and in the case of DNA tested paretns the DNA status of the pup if clear by parentage.

The KC turnaround is less than 2 weeks now

See my post!! 9 weeks to receive incorrect paperwork, a total of 4 months by the time they sorted it out and got everything right :-D

Ah there is always the exception, probably confused the hell out of them with the Dual registration.

I knew there were likely to be some issues about the DNA status of the hoped for pups from Inka as their sire is an overseas dog, so I checked things out before proceeding.

Our KC don't normally recognise overseas health test results, but in this case the test is one that is part of our official health testing, the Optigen prcd-PRA test.

I had an interesting set of emails from them initially saying no the pups wouldn't be listed as hereditary clear, (based on US sire and UK dam being tested clear) then eventually got sense and have hung onto the persons name and will send the registration to them personally.

> A contract signed on the day of purchase is extemely unsafe legally - as the buyer can claim ( quite rightly) that they were too excited about the puppy to read carefully enough.

I had already given my puppy buyers copies of my contracts weeks before they got their puppies.  We went over them and I explained about endorsements etc (none were intending to breed anyway).  When it came time to sign the contracts the 'signature' was on a different page than the information about endorsements so I had them all initial each of the endorsements.  I probably would have done the same even if it was on the same page as it's a double check.

I 100% trusted the buyers, and 3 years on they are still friends, and we are in touch, and there's no issues, but it's a case of erring on the side of caution.  If someone wanted to be arsey they could claim they signed the final page, but that I'd changed the previous page with the endorsement information.  By getting them to intial it that covered that potential eventuality if the issue ever came up with the KC.

I had the registration papers at the time, but if I didn't I would still ensure they did the same - even moreso.  I would probably word a section in there that the papers were to follow, but they were acknowledging that I had informed them in advance of the endorsements.

> So, no, owners never get the registration papers when they take the puppy home. For this reason alone I would never be accepted onto the ABS!

This wouldn't stop you.  Ideally they want the papers to go with the pups, but if they don't go they want in the contract an indication that they will follow so that the owners have in writing that they will be getting the papers.

>> Sometimes I want to keep a puppy and want the best name,
> but until you chip or tattoo the pups as long as you have the right sexes you can keep which name fits which pup by the time they go.

Not in a breed where each pup has different colour markings.  I was lucky in that I could register my two girls as the same colour (brindle with white) even though one was more a brindle parti-colour and one was brindle with white trim, so I was able to get away with having them registered and keeping the name I wanted no matter which pup I kept.  However if one had been fawn and one had been brindle and I wanted to keep that 'special' name for my pick, then I'd want to wait to register the litter until I knew which one was to have the name (if a specific name was that important)

in that case I would have chosen several really good names LOL  I have several picked out for Inka's litter if it materialises.

For my last litter there was only one name I wanted - I'd been wanting it since before I ever thought I would breed (and was the reason for creating the naming theme we had), so I was glad I could register them both the same colour.  Next litter, with the theme I have, I have one name that I would really like, but we have a 2nd choice name that we'd be almost as happy with if the colours are significantly different. 

On UK Kennel club puppy registration forms (not new owner ones after the change of ownership)  the dogs name and KC number is printed on the first page  above the stuff about insurance and pedigrees so you can retain it :) we had litters born in August and November and the forms were the same for both so its not something new :)

edited to say - just looked at a kc form for a pup I retained born in 2009 and on the first page it has the KC number ,name and unique owner code, the modern ones do not have the unique owner code.

I always give out copies of the health tests for both parents in the puppy pack so the prospective owner has all that information in advance, then they can double check it when they get the KC reg. I pay for the tattoo transfers and you don't need the KC reg numbers in advance on the tattoo litter registration to hand. That can be filled in later. I've been breeding since 1989 so they know I'm not a fly by night!  I also like the fact that when I'm dealing with the paperwork later it gives me another chance to contact the owner by phone again for a chat even if I've already spoken to them that week.

My friend had a litter and got a puppy returned within a couple of days - minus the KC reg which was troublesome for her to chase up. Then in the 2nd (and her last ever) litter the people took the puppy and all the paperwork and the cheque bounced. She did eventually get her money but she was more worried about losing track of the puppy, so had to be careful not to alienate the owners.  Maybe the answer to that one woud be to make sure the cheque clears before handing over the puppy.

How does everyone else handle this?

> How does everyone else handle this?

Cash or Bank Transfer

> Not in a breed where each pup has different colour markings.

How easy must it be to register & name pups that are a one colour breed...lol

Yep ;)