First of all, Hello again and happy new year as I have not been on here for ages!! Ok just looking for cat advice please. A friend has recently acquired a kitten which is now about 9 weeks old. I suggested making an appointment for a check up at the vets but can anyone tell me when kittens should get their first worming and vaccinations? And roughly how long can he be left alone for during the day? Thanks

Thats a bit young to have a kitten isn't it? Thought 12-13 weeks was the norm?
Maybe wrong though..

You may well be right.....the kitten was bought by someone else on Christmas eve aged 8 weeks! And within a couple of days they were rehoming him.  Not a very good situation but at least he is now being well looked after and is a lovely little thing.

Yes kittens should be no less than 13 weeks old when leaving their mothers. First vaccination is done at 9 weeks and second at 12. Drontal cat can be used from 6 weeks of age if there is suspicion of worms and it's one single dose. Leaving alone -any time and length of time really as long as food, water and litter tray is available but cats prefer company so two kittens would be best if the kitten is going to be on its own a lot. Especially as it should really still be with its mum and littermates.

I did suspect it was too young. He was actually bought along with his brother and the brother is being sold now too!  Thanks for that useful information.

Sorry Honeybee I wasn't much help. Glad Marianne has answered your questions. Xmas present and then rehomed already.. Shame on the person who bred the kitten and then the first owner..
Lets hope your friend is going to be giving him his forever home now..:-)

He'll probably be fine :) just tell your friend to vaccinate and worm and have a check up ASAP. Many rescues that are leaving their mums too early end up with some issues such as wanting to suckle for life and may try to suck on owners hairs, clothes etc, but they do cope.

I know Suejaw it is hard not to be cross with the first buyer (also a friend of mine) and the breeder. I have discovered that the breeder constantly breeds her farm cats and sells kittens with no concern about who they are sold to. The person who bought them first knew she was allergic to cats and also that cats are not permitted by her landlord!!!! And buying them on impulse just before Christmas is not good either.  Luckily the kitten (Cookie) seems healthy and is very sociable and I hope he will suffer no ill effects from his poor start.

I have discovered that the breeder constantly breeds her farm cats and sells kittens with no concern about who they are sold to.

In that case probably best to play safe and blood test the kitten as well for feline Leukaemia Virus and Feline Immunodeficiency Virus.

Well, learn something new every day- when i got my cat (nearly 5 years ago now) i got her at 7 weeks. Luckily no ill effects, but its good to know in future.

Oh thanks for that advice will suggest the blood tests, I remember a family cat having Feline Immumodeficiency Virus years ago, that's a good idea.

Just a bit if encouragement my last moggie part persion part domestic shorthair to quote the vet Bentley came to me at 8 weeks (just) I though a bit young but it was either me or someone else and I wanted to give him a good home.
He is now 2 1/2 years old the soppiest funniest cat you could want. Very healthy is two vices are not keeping his claws in when he walks across you and not stop eating !!
Hopefully you friends kitten should be fine even if he was abit young
And just to add I agree most cats love company but you try telling that to my burmese she is convinced she should be an only animal in the house

Ruth,

Parkside (If that is the vets they are using) can do a 'snap' test (For FeLV/FIV) and phone within a couple of hours with the result.  I had Jack tested as matter of routine and it was just under £50.

Hi Christine (Happy New Year!) Yes it is Parkside and the kitten has an appointment for tomorrow morning so I will suggest that. Hopefully he will be found to be healthy. Thanks for the advice.

I'm afraid that Joe Public still think 6 weeks is the 'right' age to sell moggy kittens.... not really helped by the rescues often homing them at a similar age. Can't blame people for thinking it's OK if that's what the rescues do...!

I had a vet (locum!) tell me once my kittens would never settle in their new homes if sold after 8 weeks! I wish that vet had seen the cat that came to visit me last weekend. It's one I bred, and for various reasons he was 4 ½ months old when sold as opposed to 13 weeks. A more laid back cat you couldn't imagine, he was wonderful, like a big teddybear, easily handled by anyone. The reason the owners came to visit with him was to pick another kitten as they were so happy with him.

its funny,but ive had many moggies over the years(im 61,and started my cat owning career at 18 when i got  married)and not knowing any different,have had kits from anything between 6 and 14 weeks,i have seven at present.All my old cats lived to a good age,ive had no major health problems,few vets bills-in fact,smokey,the 15year old i lost recently,never saw the vet since she was spayed,apart from routine checks.All have been lovely,loving cats,with no problems.My current mob range in age  9months to 15 years.perhaps ive just been lucky.Now i know,though,Id definately agree its better to wait  a bit!

Why can kittens not be homed until 12/13 weeks? I am not a cat breeder and have never looked into it before but I've always had my kittens from around 7/8 weeks of age. They are fully weaned. Never had any issues with any of my cats and I thought this age was the norm!

Just interested to know why really :)

Oh, I see it now....have had a wee Google myself! All to do with learning human to cat interactions from Mum? Maybe that explains why my cats are never very friendly with people??? They are completely at ease with me but always dart off if a stranger is in the house.

How interesting :)

Kittens are not fully weaned at 7/8 weeks old -they normally suckle for at least 12 weeks, often much longer when given the chance. Some start solids late as well -I've had several that wouldn't touch solids at all until 10 weeks of age and currently have a 6 week old litter where one still isn't eating solids. If the mother has plenty of milk and the kittens are left to wean themselves when they feel ready, most start eating solids at around 5-6 weeks so much later than puppies. Those weaned early (through having no other choice) often do show some signs later in life that they didn't get to finish suckling in their own time, such as excessive kneeding, drooling, trying to suckle on anything. In America somebody has even invented a pillow with little fabric teats on for all the adult cats that want to suck on things! Within the cat fancy though the 13 weeks is simply that first vaccination is given at 9 weeks, second at 12, then a clear week left before selling -as you're not allowed to sell pedigree kittens that haven't been fully vaccinated.

I didn't realise 12/13 weeks was the optimum age but I thought it should be older than 8 weeks, so not a bad guess from a non-cat owning person! I would have guessed 10 weeks or so. I didn't realise they were so much slower for weaning etc than dogs. Interesting!

> Parkside (If that is the vets they are using)

Nothing to do with cats but thanks for mentioning Parkside vets - reminded me I have to pay my horse vaccination bill!! :-)

We have kittens waiting to go to their new homes now (all booked) they had their first injection and check up between 9 & 10 weeks and they will have their 2nd injection and final vet check just before they leave for their new homes and this will be at just over 13 weeks.  We will advise all new owners to get their new babies checked over within the next week or two and register them with the vets.

So overall, I would get to the vets anytime now for the kittens 1st injection.

To update for anyone interested, Cookie went to the vets today but the advice was that he is underweight and so should wait another fortnight before getting his first vaccination. The vet said he generally appeared healthy otherwise but was probably the runt of the litter! Also gave wormer as Cookie had rather a round belly.  I don't think he has had the best start in life but he has a lovely sociable personality and apperently treated the vet to some very loud purring! I think he will get the blood tests later when he returns for his vaccination - but what would be the advice given if they came back positive?? (for Feline Leukaemia or Immunodeficiency Virus)

I think he will get the blood tests later when he returns for his vaccination - but what would be the advice given if they came back positive?? (for Feline Leukaemia or Immunodeficiency Virus)

Cats can live with either of those happily for several years before getting ill -but must not be allowed to mix with any other cats. Leukaemia is spread via saliva so just sharing food can do it, FIV is a bit harder to catch as it has to be via a bite that draws blood so a fight (or in rare cases sharing fleas!), but again to play safe the only way to do it is to avoid contact with other cats. (Unless there is another cat staying indoors with the kitten which has been vaccinated against leukaemia. FIV unfortunately there is no vaccine for.)

I lost a cat to FIV so years ago however in our case we didnt know she had the virus until she became ill.  Goodness knows were it came from as she was a cat that dint go out muchand didnt fight as far as we knew. I guess somehow she got bitten.The illness was quite short before that she was absoultely fine. Our other cat fortunately never caught it.
Hope fully cookie wil be ok

>> Parkside (If that is the vets they are using)
> Nothing to do with cats but thanks for mentioning Parkside vets - reminded me I have to pay my horse vaccination bill!! :-)

I have my uses.......................occasionally!

Looking for some more advice if anyone can help. Cookie was given drontal on Wednesday but only ate a little of it mixed into his food, he then started refusing food or milk. He stopped eating even without the wormer in his food. By this morning he had eaten so little for a couple of days that he went back to the vets, the vet thought the drontal must have  upset his tummy so gave him injections to settle his tummy and also gave panacur wormer. However he is still not eating or drinking and has little energy to play. Can anyone advise how to persuade him to eat, and any worrying signs that he might be getting dehydrated?

The one thing that worries me is the fact you said he had a round belly. It could be worms, it's most LIKELY worms, but there are far more sinister possibilities as well. Anyway let's hope not. Ways to get a cat to eat is to give particularly smelly food (sardines for instance -although be careful if the stomach truly is upset -have they seen any diarrhoea or vomiting?) or lightly warming normal canned food as that makes it smell more and appear more appetising. Also boiling fish (cod or coley) -few cats can resist that, or getting some cans of Hills ID off the vet -that is soft and apparently very tasty as most cats love it. If all else fails the normal food (or Hills ID) can be run thorough a blender with a little water and fed straight into the mouth with a syringe, but that would be last resort.

Check for dehydration the same was as with a dog -light the scruff of the neck and drop it down again, it should fall into place quickly.

He has still eaten nothing despite being offered warmed food, scrambled egg, fish, warmed cat milk etc. He is being sick but only bringing up small drops of liquid as there is nothing in him. Although he is less active than usual he is still responsive and purring when cuddled. He has now had a couple of mls of cat milk mixed with water through a syringe.

I would give your vet a call.  severe worm burden can sometimes cause impaction :(  I hope not but best to ring
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5806194_roundworm-bowel-impaction-cats.html

Is he on antibiotics? I'd say that was a must at this stage. Also what does the stomach look like? How rounded is it? Does the spine look thin?

No he is not on antibiotics. His stomach is a bit rounded but not terribly so, and not sure about his spine as he is so thin all over and I don't really know what it should look like. He has drunk some milk today through a syringe but nothing otherwise. Until he stopped eating he was toileting normally, and he has had no diarrhoea. Think he will need to go back to the vet. I would have thought the injections he was given yesterday to settle his stomach should have had an effect by now. 

Cookie is still unwell and not eating. He has another vet appointment for later today. I have been worrying so much about him, and was just on the phone to my mum describing his symptoms, she immediately said it sounds like poisoning. Well this kitten has never been ouside so I thought it's impossible, but it so happens that when he went to his new home he was let out in the kitchen and he straight away found a gap under the units and crawled inside. The kick plate was pulled off to get him out but there was a container inside which appeared to contain mouse/rat poison. (It is a rented property so the container must have been left by a previous occupant). Now Cookie could not have been in there for more than a few seconds but my mum thinks this could have been long enough for him to eat a little, which she thinks is enough to cause his appetite loss and general ill health. I have passed this information on, I really hope it is not the case but it sounds awfully possible, does anyone know anything about poisoning?

Ok so the vet is apparently sure it is not poisoning. He gave cookie antibiotics just in case of a bacterial infection, and said although he is incredibly thin he is not dehydrated due to the syringed milk. Apparently the vet will take bloods later in the week if there is no improvement, he seemed to think maybe Cookie has some kind of congenital abnormality. Can anyone offer any information or advice?

Poor wee soul, really hope he improves. I'd be a bit concerned that this has been going on for a few day's already, he is just little after all, your clearly very worried about him, I'd be inclined to ask the vet to do test's now rather than later if he hasn't improved by tomorrow.

I'm pretty much out of ideas. :( Well the one thing I keep coming back to is FIP -Feline Infectious Peritonitis, although just to confuse you it isn't peritonitis. It comes in two forms, wet or dry. With the wet version, the stomach becomes distended, that's the obvious sign. With the dry version, symptoms are far less obvious. Weight loss, apathy, dull coat. Blood tests can indicate this MAY be the problem, but the only definitive test is by post mortem so when it's too late. (Unfortunately FIP is always fatal, there is no cure.) A raised temperature can often be an indication but not even this is always a sure sign as it doesn't always happen. It sounds like a definite possibility but again it's just a possibility. In a nutshell, FIP is caused by Feline Corona Virus. Virtually all cats will at some point in their lives have been in contact with this virus, many as kittens. Most cats get a mild illness or even none at all, just shrug it off, but in some cats the virus mutates and becomes FIP. Stress is often the trigger for it to mutate so it commonly happens in kittens that have just been sold, have just been vaccinated or similar. It's most common in kittens and young cats. It may be worth asking the vet if they think this may be the case. Although -again probably just confusing the issue -sadly a lot of vets are very misinformed about this disease. I'll go through my links and post some to the best articles on the net.

http://www.fabcats.org/cat_group/policy_statements/fip.html
http://www.dr-addie.com/WhatIsFIP.htm
http://www.lbah.com/feline/fip.html

> I'm pretty much out of ideas. Well the one thing I keep coming back to is FIP -Feline Infectious Peritonitis

I'm afraid that's what I was thinking too, Marianne.

Thankyou for the links. Yes that does seem a possibility.  It is really strange how Cookie was eating normally and appeared to have settled in so well, then suddenly he won't eat or drink. He certainly has lost weight and has a very poor coat but he is still trying to interact and purrs when cuddled. I wish the vet hadn't suggested to wait till the end of the week for blood tests, it is such a worry. I don't feel very optimistic at the moment, he has not eaten for 5 days and is only about 10 weeks old. 

If it truly is a possibility that the cat has eaten poison then i would say he needs blood tests straight away.

I havent seen the effects of rat poison in cats, but years ago my JRT became ill, stopped eating and became generally unwell, vets said it was a stomach bug 3 times and kept giving her injections for it as she was still drinking.
A few days later she then collapsed and at the vets she was kept in- them still stumped. We got home and the neighbour then decided to tell us she had been in his garden a few days before- where he had rat poison down.

Sadly her organs shut down that night and she died. Its not a very pleasant end and if the kitten were mine i would be pushing for blood tests straight away- will tell a great deal- organ function, viruses etc. What is the point in waiting a few days?

One other thing that occured to me, just in case -has the mouth been checked? Cat flu gives ulcers on the tongues, sometimes right at the back of it, which means the kitten will not want to eat as it hurts.

Well amazingly yesterday Cookie started eating again. I can hardly believe it but things are definitely looking much better, maybe the antibiotics were what he needed? Anyway I am cautiously optimistic.

Oh fingers crossed!!