I have both my dogs insured with M&S and once again the premiums have rocketed.  I am now paying about £60pcm for the 2 dogs and they both have an excess of £90.  On getting the renewal through for my rott he seems to be on the basic package which is a bit odd as I generally don't see the point of them as the returns are quite low.

In his case it costs £35pcm and the maximum payable is £4k each year with a limit of £1K per condition.  I am paying around £720 a year in premiums for the 2 of them and would have to pay the £90 excess for any claims which takes me up to nearly the £1K limit.  Granted that is payments for both dogs but what is the point of paying premiums I am now asking myself when I am paying them pretty much the same as I would get in return?  My staffy is on the premium package and it seems to have been a total oversight on my part to put my boy on the lower one.  thankfully I haven't claimed anything for him so perhaps a blessing that I have paid out less.

I am off to get some quotes for better cover for my boy but this will push the premiums up further.  I know the insurance thing is debated to death here every year but is anyone else finding that you are getting far less for your money?

think it would be better if vet insurance ceased to exist as it seems vet bills have shot through roof since it became a mainstream thing.

PetGuard is what I have my eldest Bernese on and he is £28pm, and he has the top insurance with them which covers every condition for the life of the dog, with something like £8k per condition each year. That was my main thing to be worried about.
Rotties are in the higher category with my breed and other select breeds, which makes them more expensive to insure and there are certain insurance companies who won't touch my breed at all..

I agree weimed.  I remember when insurance first appeared and was reasonably priced with sensible excess levels.  Then the Vets twigged that they could could test for anything and everything when an animal presented with minor skin problems for example, and that was the end of 'reasonable' insurance.  I have an average of four dogs usually, (six at the moment) and insurance went way out of my league pricewise many years ago.  I am lucky in that I have healthy dogs who usually only see the Vet for vacs and when in whelp (neither of which are normally covered by insurance) and I also have a first class Vet who doesn't have a problem with spreading the cost on the rare occasion I have a large bill to pay.   

I have got a quote from animal friends who say they are an ethical company focusing specifically on pet insurance but their top level cover is still £35.  I will check petguard and see if there are any bargains to be had.

*Just checked and can get maximum cover of £7500 per year with a £60 excess for £25pa.  That definitely looks a goer.  Thanks

as long as you dont have any previous conditions which changing companies wont cover then I dont blame you looking else where , one of mine is with petplan now costing £35 as she had problems with her nails years ago and I always worried that if anything worse happened they wouldnt cover her.
I am also with M&S for the other two one at 18.99 and the other 25.99

Would not touch Animal Friends as they are underwritten by E&L - notoriously reluctant to pay out.

We have one accident-prone dog insured with Direct Line (who I recommend, along with M&S).  For the others, we both have a monthly standing order into a separate bank account.

I have 1 with Petplan as she has ongoing problems that won't be covered if I move her, but the other two have been moved to Axa, still with lifetime cover but much better prices, so may well be worth a look. You can get a quote online ( mine are approx £13.50 each dog per month with good cover and excess £75) spaniel and terrier

I am on a roll now, farewell M&S!  Axa are offering good cover for £20.80 a month and £80 excess which is even better.

Just checked pet guard def competitive £25.00 for each of my dogs and £10 for each cat with discounts for multi animals. Policy as suejaw said excess £60 if under 8years

Check if Axa underwritten by E&L too - believe they are.  No point having insurance if they wont pay out.

Rabid, Animal Friends are no longer underwritten by E&L, as this was something that I definately wanted to avoid.  They are underwritten by Red Sands. 

When I spoke to them about the E&L thing, they used to be (when they first started out) underwritten by E&L and had so many problems that they disposed of them as quickly as they could.

I have Animal Friends insuring both my dogs, one of which has a number of health problems, they have always been very quick to pay out with very few problems and Ive had to make five claims in the last year alone.  I would go for the lifetime cover rather than the annual one, I have a £69 excess and pay £17.31 per month for each dog (one a cavvy and the other a lab) so total £34.62

http://www.animalfriends.org.uk/claims-and-legal/our-underwriters/

I think I will have to go on the game if M&S put up their premiums on my dog again this year. They did pay out £3k then £4k for 2 major ops but now I have the 'pleasure' of giving them an eyewatering £130 a month.
I obviously can't change now, too much history, but - DARE I stop? 

I have another one (a rehome oldie) on AF - 1st claim they wouldn't pay so not impressed with them. Plus the premium tax has increased, probably the same for everyone's insurance.

Has anyone made a claim with Pet Guard?

Axa are their own underwriters :) this is taken from their pet insurance policy document.

Important
This contract is underwritten by:
AXA Insurance UK plc
Registered in England No. 78950
Registered Office: 5 Old Broad Street,
London, EC2N 1AD
A member of the AXA Group
of Companies
AXA

>   On getting the renewal through for my rott he seems to be on the basic package which is a bit odd as I generally don't see the point of them as the returns are quite low.
>
>

You might find the company did it - I'm with M&S for my Bernese and this year it is costing me a fortune - I really need to move her over to Petguard as that's who my Petit is with and their premiums are much lower . my bernese now costs more to insure than our horse does!! I should have changed last summer but forgot! I got a quote from Petplan for our Bernese almost two years ago and they would only put her on their basic package, a few companies refused a quote as she was 5 - even though we have never claimed for her in the past ( fingers firmly crossed and wood touched!)

>> Has anyone made a claim with Pet Guard?

Nope, and not heard of anyone having to either, which is a shame for those considering it.
Just wish AXA would insure Bernese, they seem to be flavour of the year currently.

> I obviously can't change now, too much history, but - DARE I stop?

You could put some money into a new account to cover vet fee's etc. Depending on the op's would depend if there is likely to be any issues later on in life? Like arthritis etc which may need meds or hydro etc..

im with argos pet insurance,started when sadie and flyss were 7,flyss is now 15,and its gone up from 7pounds,to over 24,this is for the silver cover,theyve paid out fine for minor ops,but ive not claimed for years(and darent stop paying!)When i had the pup,as id already got insurance with them,I got a reduction in  cover(jess is on the top one,not sure if itsgold  or platinum)and ipay 12pounds something,excess is 60pounds i think.Ive never claimed for any of flysses medication as it never seemed worth it.seems cheap to what you all pay,yet i thought it very expensive!but yes,there was a very obvious hike in vets charges once insurance became the norm.As a pensioner,I considered letting it lapse and using the pdsa as id qualify,but old habits die hard,and i kind of like and trust my vets,so while i can afford it, i will.

I have now set up a transfer for my £30 a month and put it in the B/Society-I do not touch at all .

I have not had to use on any of my dogs-thank goodness, and it is sitting there with a few thousand in.

I have taken out insurance in the past and yes I did use within 8 weeks of start of insurance cover-so that was a saving.

It all depends on how good is one at saving.

I must admit now I'm in Oz, I haven't bothered with pet insurance..
In the UK I did have both dogs insured, but here it seems to be just as extortionate!
I tend to just put money aside now; the 'just in case' fund.

> I obviously can't change now, too much history, but - DARE I stop?

That was my conundrum when Winnie's renewal practically doubled with M&S a couple of years ago (to nearly £30pcm). She had had major surgery to remove both ear canals and I understood that if she developed any problems with her ears it wouldn't be covered if we changed companies. BUT I weighed up the options (and the likely problems her ears may cause, which seemed few as she now has no ear holes) and decided it would be worth the risk of swapping to AXA. Her premiums are still around £15pcm although I wouldn't be surprised if they increase this time as we've had a year of big claims for her mast cell tumours and subsequent chemotherapy, all of which were settled with no problems.

In my experience, and touching every piece of wood I can find, AXA haven't increased their premiums to any great extent over the four or so years I've had 5 dogs insured with them. The excess has increased from £50 to £75 but other than that the premiums have only gone up a few pence at renewal, and in my young Goldies case actually went down.

I have just received a quote for £2,900 from Pet Plan for my crew of seven (5 RRs and 2 Aussies) which is a big price hike :(  A rethink is in order!

I pay approximatly £150. a month for my five girls. I am with Petplan and have been since 1981.  Yes it is expensive. however two days before Christmas one of my girls needed major surgery. bill came to around £900.00.  One of my other girls has had the same surgery the year before. over the years I have had various similar claims, Some greatly needed for 'lifetime ilnesses'... I wouldnt be without it.  I feel my car insurance/house insurance is expensive as well. I am less likely to make a claim on these. I personally would not be without it for the dogs.

I have now set up a transfer for my £30 a month and put it in the B/Society-I do not touch at all .


This only adds up to £360 per year which wouldn't touch the sides when you think of the cost of just a basic op. As you mention that you have a few thousand in this account it sounds as though you are lucky with healthy dogs, but I must admit the thought of NOT having insurance scares the hell out of me.

AXA are the ones that underwrite many of the supermarket policies etc. they are one of the big Insurance companies.

> it sounds as though you are lucky with healthy dogs, but I must admit the thought of NOT having insurance scares the hell out of me.

No way could I afford to Insure my lot, and as a breeder it really is in my own interests well as new owners interests to breed healthy dogs.

My most expensive claimable vets fees were for an Ear infection that started I suspect during my travel in Finland to get the bitch mated, was not killed during pregnancy on the safe antibiotics and then ended up costing around £450 on 2007,mainly due to the repeat visit charges by the Vet, changes of antibiotics and being anaesthetised to have her ear syringed.

That bitch is 7 1/2 and that has been her only Vet costs other than Vaccinations and things to do with pregnancy.

My eldest has had a lump removed from eyelid and ear last year at age 12, and had conjunctivitis at 12 weeks, no way did that come to 12 years worth f Insurance premiums.

I think years ago Pet Plan rep at one of our seminars stated that if you had more than two dogs to insure the law of averages would be that you would be better putting the value of the premiums in an account to pay for Vets fees.

Even with a C section last year (not covered by Insurance anyway) my Vets fees were no where near what a years Insurance for five dogs would be especially the 3 veterans.

As soon as dogs get older the Insurance and the excess goes through the roof, as that is when they are most likely to start needing the Vet.

I too feel Vets fees have gone up hugely mainly due to Insurance being more common.

i have just cancelled my insurance for the 4 dogs I had insured. I have put money aside for years for vets fees but had gradually insured one or other dog for various reasons. The one I rehomed recently I carried it on after I got free insurance with her microchipping and that paid for its self with stiching her up after the fights she caused and the behaviourist sessions. I insured my older dog in case he looked like he was going to get ill as he aged but he is now 10 and still hasn't been to the vets for anything for years. two younsters I insured just because it looked like a reasonable deal. but when I worked it out I was paying £75 p month and it  seemed the only dogs that got ill were the two that weren't insured so I have now cancelled it all and am putting £100 p month away in a hard to get at account again.
I found that last time I did that I tended to pay for a lot of minor vet visits out of my normal account and didn't touch the vet account so it did build up nicely for when I had an emergency.
I also question whether it is in the best interests of the animal to go for some of the treatments like chemo therapy just because we can afford it because the insurance pays. I don't want to put my animals through a lot of invasive an unpleasant treatment unless there is a very good chance of a good quality of life for some time after the treatment finishes.

> AXA are the ones that underwrite many of the supermarket policies etc. they are one of the big Insurance companies

Correct :) My daughter works for the human healthcare side :)

Daisy

> also question whether it is in the best interests of the animal to go for some of the treatments like chemo therapy just because we can afford it because the insurance pays. I don't want to put my animals through a lot of invasive an unpleasant treatment unless there is a very good chance of a good quality of life for some time after the treatment finishes.

That is how I feel too.

Me too, I love my dogs but there are things I wouldn't put them through.  With 2 bernese & 3 poodles we gave up on the insurance as was way too expensive, and I had only ever claimed once in 15 years insurance for poodles, so we have direct debits set up into an account that is soley for vets bills, which thankfully we dont have many of.   Yes its a risk especially with the bernese but premiums are ridiculous!

Gave up with the dog insurance many years ago and started to put the premium away in a separate bank account, after a few years there was enough for the two of us to go on a 3 week cruse and kennel the dogs - we have now had 3 holidays on the surplus so no way would I go back to insurance I put £25 per dog per month away and often find I am using the fund for domestic replacements.

PS - my system pays out for boosters and blood tests and it does not matter how many times a problem is repeated the account still pays out - it has bought a good few puppies as well.

> That is how I feel too

Me too

Daisy

I also question whether it is in the best interests of the animal

And me - we have to ask if we are treating the animal for the animals sake or for ours.

> I also question whether it is in the best interests of the animal to go for some of the treatments like chemo therapy just because we can afford it because the insurance pays. I don't want to put my animals through a lot of invasive an unpleasant treatment unless there is a very good chance of a good quality of life for some time after the treatment finishes.

Winnie is one of those dogs that has been through a lot in her short life (she has just turned 7) and has made me realise how important insurance is. Had she not been insured I'm not sure what I'd have done. My Vet would, I'm sure, have allowed me to pay in installments, but the money has still got to be found and a great deal of money at that. Her ear canal surgery in 2008, and all the flushing under GA before that route was chosen, has probably cost me in the region of £3,000+. Her mast cell tumour operations and chemo last year have undoubtedly cost another £3,000 to £4,000. You can never know when a major problem is going to crop up and I'd rather be able to go to the Vet and know, if it's needed, expensive treatment can be undertaken without me worrying about the cost.

What would you have done in my situation? Winnie has been stoic throughout, never complained and hopefully will go on to have a good, long-life with no further problems. Had she not had the chemo, which had few side effects other than increasing her appetite, the prognosis was that she'd not be here now. The chemo option should give her another 3-5 years, although there are no guarantees.

Hamish, insured all his life, hadn't had any problems at all, until 9 year old when he became increasingly lame. He was x-rayed and diagnosed with hip dysplasia, spondylosis and general arthritis. He will probably be on painkillers and supplements, along with regular hydrotherapy, for the rest of his life (he's now 11). All in all I've probably claimed £3,000+ for him.

Unless I won the lottery, and had no money worries, I would always insure my dogs, for peace of mind if nothing else. I do agree veterinary charges are probably a lot more expensive because of insurance but there have been so many advances in medicine in general that so much more is possible these days (if you can afford it).

as a breeder it really is in my own interests well as new owners interests to breed healthy dogs.


I agree however even the best bred dogs can get cancer, have an accident, a dog fight etc.
Having insurance does not mean we 'get our moneys worth' by having every treatment going, it is just the thought that if needed anything that crops up CAN be treated without the need to worry.

My gsd came from a very reputable breeder, it took me over a year to find a good pup that I knew had been bred for health with all the tests etc. But at age 9 going on 10 she has hip dysplasia and even though the insurance would cover the cost I still would not consider any operation as I feel it would distress her too much and would not offer her many more months, but the medication to keep her comfortable plus hydrotherapy plus meds for other problems that are going on are running into several thousand every year, without insurance she would have to be pts.
I realise that it is very costly to insure with multiple dogs, my daughter and I own eight dogs between us, her 3 boxers have each had skin lumps removed, one had a cruciate operation and another emergency spleen removal with bloat, another had a large cyst taken from his throat and still has the drainage tube in. This is just part of THIS years main treatments - There is no way we could have paid for all of this without insurance.

If we could not afford to have the dogs treated then we would not have dogs at all

I do think as humans we are slightly spoilt with the NHS.  If we paid full price for X-ray's/Scans and operations medication etc, we would perhaps realise that what we pay for our pets is reasonable.  I could not afford not to pay for my insurance for my five. If I couldnt afford the cost I would not have five dogs. what works for me doesnt always work for others.
When I was buying my car I took into acount all costs, maintenance, fuel, servicing, garage bills etc. I did the same with my dogs.  not only for health, which is what most folk think of when pet insurance is mentioned, but for the third party. This, I feel should be compulsory. then if your dog causes and accident etc. you are covered. This is protection for all.

I think it's all a bit of a lottery, really.  A lot depends on the particular dog you have. 

For eg, one of mine has never been to the vets for anything apart from routine jabs.  The other has been several times for things ranging from lumps (FNAs and biopsies) and eating inedible things which once required a major emergency op to remove it.  (Cost £1600 - including 2 nights at the vets, during a bank holiday weekend.) 

We originally told our insurance company (Direct LIne) that we didn't want to renew for both dogs.  Then, just before the cover was due to lapse, we had a hunch that we wanted to get some lumps investigated further.  We renewed the insurance for that dog only.  And, a week later, she had the emergency surgery costing £1600. 

However, if we added up all the money we have spent on insurance each year and imagined we had instead been paying it into a bank account, we would have paid in more than £1600 I'm sure.

Here is my take on the situation now...

I think that all pups should be insured by their new owners for at least the first year or two of life.  Many inherited and congenital conditions rear their heads during that time frame, so it's wise to have the dog covered until you know the animal you're dealing with. 

During that time, you can also have a standing order into a bank account.  So that, if you decide to discontinue insurance at 2 yrs, you should then have at least £2K saved up in that account to take over.  If you decide to continue the insurance, you can use that for boosters or for things that the insurance won't cover (extra hydrotherapy, prescription foods, excluded conditions, conditions relating to pregnancy and whelping etc).

If you have a hunch that you have an accident prone dog, it might be worth continuing the insurance.

Anyway, this is the solution we've come to - and why we have 1 dog insured and one not.

Winnie is one of those dogs that has been through a lot in her short life (she has just turned 7) and has made me realise how important insurance is. Had she not been insured I'm not sure what I'd have done. My Vet would, I'm sure, have allowed me to pay in installments, but the money has still got to be found and a great deal of money at that. Her ear canal surgery in 2008, and all the flushing under GA before that route was chosen, has probably cost me in the region of £3,000+. Her mast cell tumour operations and chemo last year have undoubtedly cost another £3,000 to £4,000. You can never know when a major problem is going to crop up and I'd rather be able to go to the Vet and know, if it's needed, expensive treatment can be undertaken without me worrying about the cost.

What would you have done in my situation? Winnie has been stoic throughout, never complained and hopefully will go on to have a good, long-life with no further problems. Had she not had the chemo, which had few side effects other than increasing her appetite, the prognosis was that she'd not be here now. The chemo option should give her another 3-5 years, although there are no guarantees.

Hamish, insured all his life, hadn't had any problems at all, until 9 year old when he became increasingly lame. He was x-rayed and diagnosed with hip dysplasia, spondylosis and general arthritis. He will probably be on painkillers and supplements, along with regular hydrotherapy, for the rest of his life (he's now 11). All in all I've probably claimed £3,000+ for him.

Unless I won the lottery, and had no money worries, I would always insure my dogs, for peace of mind if nothing else. I do agree veterinary charges are probably a lot more expensive because of insurance but there have been so many advances in medicine in general that so much more is possible these days (if you can afford it).

Exactly the same here, my guys are all rescues that haven't had great starts to their lives and unfortunatelythis has led with some of them to health problems and with othres just been unlucky.  There is no way I could have my animals without insuruance because I just couldn't afford them.  I have 6 animals here, each of them with a long term health problem and with the appropriate treatment they are all leading  happy lives and health problems are under control.  Unfortunately one of my cats has recently been diagnosed with a tumour :-( that is inoperable and she will be kept comfy and happy till the times comes and will go when the time is right for her.  The diagnosis for this and treament to date has been over a couple of thousand pounds, something I could never have afforded and I won't put a price on my animals so without insurance I wouldn't have them.  With it I can decide whether or not I want to take the treatments avialable and what routes I want to go down.  Others include hypothyroid, athsma, incontinance due to an intrpelvic bladder, severe allergies, epilepsy and IBD, all things that can be controlled and not impact on the animals quality of life in any major way with the appropriate diagnosis and appropriate medication, I for one am very glad of insurance, though I don;t think they are so glad of me :-p

insurance went way out of my league pricewise many years ago

likewise--even with three the premiums I was quoted were in the order of £120 per month (and these are healthy dogs from a breed with few problems), so I put money away each month against any emergency instead. Our vets are brilliant and when one of the dogs was injured last year they were the ones to suggest spreading payments--not needed, bless them, but they offered and says everything to me about where their priorities lie.

rabid, that's excellent advice--I insured my first two in their first two years and now save their pocket money against a very rainy day :)

> A lot depends on the particular dog you have. 

Personally with my breed the Bernese I wouldn't be without insurance, if you don't get stung when they are young, it seems you do as they get older. Sounds pretty depressing that right? They are a lovely breed but that is why premiums are so high and why many won't insure them as they are prone to problems :-(
There are many other large and giant breeds which fit this bill also which I personally wouldn't have without insurance. That is a huge gamble.

I insured my first two in their first two years and now save their pocket money against a very rainy day :-)

often it isnt until later years that you use your insurance.  I know with my first insured dog in 1981. we didnt use his insurance until later when he developed cardiomyopathy.  He has x rays, scans ect. and was on medication for the rest of his life. So, although we had never used his insurance until then, I am sure we got it all back in the end. and had the security of knowing that we could give him the best of treatment.

If you have a hunch that you have an accident prone dog, it might be worth continuing the insurance.


Rabid, I accept that each owner does what is best for them and their dogs and to insure or not insure is personal choice, for this reason I really don't want to oppose anyones views, but I just know that I wouldn't like to put my dogs lives on the line on a hunch or guess their future health needs by chance, who knows if they could run into the road and be hit by a car, or cause damage that could result in being sued for massive sums or.....etc etc -  so many things could go wrong especially if your dog reaches a ripe old age, so many years of fingers crossed.

JAY15, £120 per month ( £40 each dog ) is a terrible price to pay, did you shop around? I am sure you could get better prices than that for good cover - what dogs are they?

if I am allowed to say, they are welsh springers, and all young dogs

I've just got an online quote from a company--£95.74 per month for the three...there is cheaper, but tight limits on vet fees for cheaper products--they don't seem worth shelling out for.

I probably should shop around more...all leads welcome, if you'll pardon the expression :)

Hoping that all our dogs stay in the pink and don't need any major vet care this year (yes, in my dreams...)--all the best to you all!

JAY15
If the picture you show is one of them they look absolutely beautiful.( I used to have a W. Springer he was adorable as well ) Have you tried the Axa website you can get an online quote for free with no obligation, so if you still choose to not insure then at least you will have some idea what a reasonable insurance cost would be in case you change your mind at a later time, I am sure it won't be anywhere near the £120 price

thanks sillysue, the picture is of my oldest and 'special' boy, the major domo in our household bless him, and his colleagues are handsome guys as well (the little one has a trip to Crufts coming up so I'm very excited-he will be when the liver biscuit turns up!).

I tried Petprotect, pretty indifferent cover and very expensive, Petplan was better but still £95 a month.

http://www.axa.co.uk/insurance/pet
£7000 per year for lifetime cover - I pay £14 for my c. spaniel and £13 for my terrier per month

I've just checked my premiums with AXA, and they are as follows:

3 1/2 year old Golden Retriever (f): £14.44
5 1/2 year old Dobermann (f): £21.18
7 year old Sussex Spaniel (f): £17.85
8 year old Dobermann (f): £28.92
11 year old Golden Retriever (m): £29.87

which = just over £112 pcm for the lot, which IMO isn't that much for the peace of mind it gives me.

'AXA haven't increased their premiums to any great extent over the four or so years '

Don't know when you renew but......... Zuma 3½ yr GSD is with AXA on the top level,
1st year = £14ish, had claims about £1k total
2nd year = down slightly, no claims
3rd year (renewed in Oct 2010) = £23.......
OUCH

Chris