I would appreciate your advice again please on something that has happened tonight .
I live in a fairly rural small village and my house is situated on the track that leads to a cricket club.Tonight my dogs started barking in the garden , so I went out to see what was going on.The guy who mows the grass at the cricket gound was outside my gates asking for my help. I put my dogs away and went over.Now this guy is in his 80's , he still gets around but he is becoming more frail as the months go by.He is still driving although had an accident last week in his car , then he pulled car over and walked off and lost his car.The police had to be called and they had to look after him till he son came to get him.Anyway this guy has a 6 yrold collie who goes to the cricket club with him and spends a long time there running in circles rounding up the lawn mower.His dog seems happy and is in good condition and at least is getting fresh air and some form of exercise ( alot more than most ) .Anyway another neighbour has asked us to keep an eye on him as they think he is perhaps 'not as mentally together as he was '. So tonight this guy asks me to come to cricket ground with him and he has in the back of a car a 10 week puppy collie from the farmer up the road.He wanted me to hold the pup on the lead while he let the other have a run.I tried to but the pup has obviously never had a coller or lead on and he was trying all he could to get away.The coller slipped off over his head.The coller wouldnt go any tighter so rather than giving the dog a scarey experience with the lead i let him run free.( its well away from any road ect ) he was a good pup and stayed with us occasionally running after the other dog .After this I put his dog and pup back in the car for him.I am worried to heck as this guy lives on a main road and I could just see the pup slipping his coller again and running into the traffic.So after he left , I drove hell for leather to the vets , bought a puppy coller and then went to search for this guys house ( I sort of knew out of a few houses which was his.) When I got there the guy had left his car door wide open onto the pavement , the alley way door open and his back door was open .The pup was in a room with some water which he had knocked over but atleast the door was shut.I changed the pups coller and put a tag on it so atleast the guy can attach a lead without him running loose on the road.BUT I am really worried whether this guy can look after such a young puppy.The pup kept laying o ntop of my feet when we were walking so I'm worried he may trip on him.I don't think for a minute that the guy wont feed him and he wont be mean to him or anything but as far as training goes , the pup will have none, other than being let loose on the cricket field to run.If this guy keeps him for ever then maybe fine but at his age and with people starting to get concerend about him will he be around for the life of the pup ? Then who will want to take on a collie that has never been trained.
I suppose there are far worse dogs out there suffering much worse fates and the dog rescues are littered with dogs that aren't trained , its just I feel responsible now for this little fella as I have met him. Do you think I should get involved or leave him to it and if Yes I should get involved what should I do.I am pretty furious with the farmer for giving him a pup but maybe they didnt know the situation.

Sorry for waffling on......

You know my mother is in her 70's and my grandfather his 90's and even now they could both train a pup as easily as buttering bread, this neighbour of yours in his 80's may well teach this pup the basics at home and his current dog will teach puppy manners too, the pup will follow what the elder does and learn to play and sit nicely at the cricket club whilst he mows the grass, (as long as the man does not run over it) so the pup growing up untrained and wild may not be as true as you think.

However I totally agree with you, the man may have the onset of alzheimer's, he should not have bought a pup in his 80's, I would never have a pup I thought I may not outlive, totally unfair, and the farmer, well, he must have sawdust for brains, wasn't thinking of the pup was he?

Does the man have relatives? Maybe he has someone lined up to have his dogs if anything happens, you should ask, and maybe as a friend have contact details as you are worried about him. Then at least you have someone to call if there is a problem.

For now otis, just keep an eye, very kind of you to get the collar and to care, but it's his business and until he is deemed unfit by a doctor, or puts the dogs in danger or is neglectful, there is little you can do.

For now, just be a friend. :-)

> When I got there the guy had left his car door wide open onto the pavement , the alley way door open and his back door was open

Thats the concerning bit for me, really is this man fit enough to look after himself? If he has friends or family nearby then maybe it would be best to speak to them. Keep an eye on him and maybe alert his neighbours if this is a close nit village. No one will want anything to happen to this man or his dogs, but by leaving doors open to cars and homes, well in this day and age its not safe..

At worst it would be a call to Social Services, which may not be the way to go, but if he continues to do things like the above, then its going to have to be a case of cruel to be kind and try and get him the help he needs..

Good Luck :-)

Thanks for this. I completely agree Carrington that there are many fit older people out there who are capable of looking after a new dog.My concern is that he isn't fit enough unfortunately.He finds it hard to bend down so I'm not sure how easy cleaning up after a pup  who makes a mistake in the house will be for him.He has a son but I'm not sure where he lives.The guy lives on his own now.
Anyway i am going to try and get hold of the neighbour who is keeping an eye on him and see what he thinks should be done. Maybe I could offer to do some on lead walking with the pup and teach him to sit ect as I definately know the guy wont do this with him if his other dog is anything to go by so at least the collie stands a chance when and if he has to go to a new home.Will let you know.Thanks again for the advice.

> Maybe I could offer to do some on lead walking with the pup and teach him to sit ect

Ahh, that's really nice of you :)

> Maybe I could offer to do some on lead walking with the pup and teach him to sit ect as I definately know the guy wont do this with him if his other dog is anything to go by so at least the collie stands a chance when and if he has to go to a new home.Will let you know

This would be useful as you could keep an eye on the situation as well as teach the pup. Befriending an elderly person can be rewarding, and you would learn who and where his relatives are. Do contact the relatives once you know who they are and let them know you are helping out by walking the puppy, otherwise you could land up in a bit of bother if they really do not want anyone interfering as they might see it.

Well next bit of update.I have spoken to the neighbour who was looking out for him .He has told me he has been trying to warn the old man for some time  from getting another pup and he was shocked this morning to find he had aquired one.He said he would phone his son and talk to him and also go and talk to the farmer to see if the pup can be taken back.Apparently all the stuff the older guy told me yesterday was complete rubbish and he is far worse in his demetia than I realised ( infact he had driven to Birmingham , we are up in the north  and the police found him wandering in  a blizzard at 3 am  ) .I did see the old guy today , as he was on his way to the cricket field to let the dogs out for a run.The pup was with him and had a lead attached to his new coller but the pup looked very scared and had a weeping eye.I asked if he had been to vet this morning like he promised and he said no he would go next week.I pressed him to re think about taking on the pup and he just laughed saying , '' when I'm gone there coming to you '' !!!! I told him very clearly that NOWAY were they , but he just drove off saying , ''don't worry'' .I think the son is going to get the doctors opinion on his dad.So I think I just have to sit tight and keep the best eye I can on them and be ready to help any time I can.

Such a sad situation when people get old .

Thanks for listening.

Otis at least this man has people looking out for him, thats the best thing having a support network of some kind to keep an eye. Lets hope he gets the right help for him and that the best outcome happens for his dogs too.
Having the farmer take the pup back would be a good idea I agree, fingers crossed he does.

> infact he had driven to Birmingham , we are up in the north  and the police found him wandering in  a blizzard at 3 am

That is very worrying and is a major cause for concern in my eyes. Should he even be driving? I'm not sure the DVLA would agree that he should be if his dementia is that bad. Further to that he could be putting other people at risk too.

This has just reminded me to phone my father who is in a similar situation but luckily without any dogs! It is very difficult when they can just about cope but really need more help then they want. There are lots of specialist collie rescues around if it is necessary at some point and puppies are normally easier to home than older dogs. Hopefully his son will be able to persuade him that it is too much for him.

Edited to add that the police told us that either we persuaded my father to stop driving or they would take his license away. They had enough of finding his car for him! He did agree but now of course he can not remember that he did and gets very annoyed about it.

sometimes people do not know they have dementia, with my grandfather we reported him to the dvla, the police and his doctor who agreed in the end to take away his licence, it was not that we wanted to do it, but if he had killed someone because we knew how bad he had got and we did nothing i could never of forgiven myself.

sometimes people do not know they are getting bad they just think the world around them is wrong, i know that sounds
stupid but if you do not know you are getting worse and many dementia patients do not know anything is wrong with them
they carry on life as normal and other people have to step in to take control.

i know because i am in the process of stepping in myself to help my mum and
it is going to be hard but things have to be done to help her at least mum knows
that something is wrong but not sure what .

Let's hope the farmer will take the puppy back, though anyone who would sell to an old chap suffering dementia isn't going to make much effort to find the puppy a good home. If he stays with the old man, your idea of helping to walk and train him a bit is probably your best way of helping, at least then if / when the dogs need rehoming this puppy will have some basic training and be more rehomable. Sad situation.

Just a quick update while i grab some food. Old guy turned up at my house today in my field that is shut off for my dogs only to be in.( I hate to think what might have happened if my dogs were in there and he went in with a puppy ) anyway.He had lost his keys for the car so walked up. I drove him back down and the older dog was attacking the young pup so we separated them.I asked if he had fed pup and said '' no not till this evening, they only get fed then '' This is a tiny pup.He should be on 3 meals a day.He had scratches on his nose , presumably from other dog.The guy wanted me to take him to shops to buy food , so I did ( didnt have much money on me so just had to get what I could at the time ) We then went to find his car as he wanted to drive it home .he had left it at pub last night.He said I had keys.Which I didnt.So I have taken him home , so he could get some dinner and I have taken the pup with me.NOWAY over my dead body is that pup going back.He is at the moment at my yard with my yard manager .We have fed him ( which he woffled down ) and he is getting dry and she is trying to calm him down, very hyper alert , poor mite.I have told neighbour I have pup and have lfet message on Sons mobile and home number asking him to call me.Been up to farmer , which all sounds very dodgy and a horrible place .However they said they will take him back , also he hasnt been paid for.
So I'm now off to check old guy has ate lunch and try to fob him off with why I havent brought the pup back.Now I'm crying buckets thinking the pup has to go back to being locked in a shed till he is sold on.......Arrrrrgh !

What  a great start to the New Year.

Under these new circumstances, round of applause, hun!

Oh dear, who said life was fair, sometimes it stinks doesn't it?

You're a real Good Samaritan, poor puppy only getting one meal a day at his age. Thank goodness you were there to save him. Now if only you could perhaps find him a good home without having to go back to that dodgy farmer OR the poor senile chap!

Does anyone know if there is a border collie rescue and are they likely to take in such a small pup. The old guy ( hate calling him this but don't want to say his name on a public forum ) says he was being sold for £ 80 and i am prepared to go and pay this myself for the pup but I really cant keep him as I have 4 dogs already .He could stay up at our yard for while but the longer you have him the more attached you become.I can't bare the thought of taking him back to what is locally known as dirty farm and have them lock him in the shed again .

Thanks for your kind comments.

That is very good of you and well done on getting him from his unsuitable owner. I am not sure whereabouts you are but the North of England was mentioned.

http://www.bordercollietrustgb.org.uk/ in Staffordshire and in Yorkshire
http://www.bordercollierescue.org/

There are others around the country if neither of these can help you and transport can normally be arranged.

Ottis.
What a fantastic person you are. Like you could not take him back to the farm, so keep looking for a rescue. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Best wishes.

I'd be making contact with the breed rescue's. They may even pay out the money to the farmer too? If they can't help i'm sure they'll be able to put you in touch with someone who can.. Good luck and well done you :-)

I doubt very much if the rescues would pay the farmer and ideally no one should as it will just encourage him to breed more. He let it go to an unsuitable home without payment so in theory it should be up to him and the elderly man but you wouldn't want him pressurising him. Maybe the son can sort the farmer out and either pay nothing or a reduced price.

Well done you for helping, not an easy job it seems :)

Poor puppy. What a start in life.
I wonder how much the older man paid to the farmer, if indeed he paid anything? Or if he paid lots?
I'd think it might be better to get pup to a rescue - I'd imagine it is much easier to rehome a pup rather than an adult dog in some ways.
People are more likely to see the pup as a "clean slate" sort of thing. Hopefully it won't be too damaged by it's ordeal so far.

Sending lots of good wishes that this gets sorted out, thankfully there are a few good people around in the world and you are clearly one of them :)

Hi ,

Just wanted to let you all know where we are up to as you have been so kind to reply.
More info has come to light that the dog was being sold for £150 not £ 80 and he was of good working collie stock.I went to speak to the breeder ( who whilst is actually up at the farm , only works there not owns it ) .He said he wanted the dog back as he had already got another home for him ready.He was to go as a working collie.I said that I could buy him and did have a space on hold at a rescue but he said ''No , he was selling it to this new home'' Which to be honest is understandable as that is what he has been bred for ,apparently the old guy just turned up and whilst the  breeder knew him and knew he had another collie , he did question him on having another but he had no idea he had gone senile.The old guy just grabbed the dog and put him in car and drove off saying he would be back up to pay later.Anway , it has been very emotional.The pup was put back in a wooden kennel arrangement that had straw  , with his sibling and another adult dog who I presumed was his mum.They all gave each other big kisses.Whilst its not the life of cuddles and warm fires , I suppose there are far more needy dogs that need the space in the rescue than a pup that already has a  new home waiting. I have said if anything falls through , please phone me and I will take him. I'm not sure I could have done anymore with out breaking the law .

as far as old guy is concerend.Its getting worse day by day.He drove off and left his other collie yesterday and the dog ran down the road after him.Luckily when the car got to far ahead he turned and came back where a neighbour got him on a lead.The worst for me was today.I got a phone call on my way back from walking 2 of my dogs saying he has walked into my house and was found taking my Great Danes out , thinking he'd take them for a walk,eeeeeeek !Thankgod I had my small boys with me or I dont like to think what could have happened.We have had now to put a padlock on our gates so he can't wander in.I have been ferrying him about all afternoon and he has been pretty offensive to me now aswell as others  .I'm just hoping tomorrow , social services will come to see him.The worry is now what to do with his 6 yrold male collie dog.He really is a 1 mans dog.Never known any different .The dog gets very stressed if not with him.Hopefully a rescue would take him in but don't know how the dog will cope .....( on the bright side ...at least all this stress is helping with my New Year diet ;-) )

Anyway just wanted to let you know.

I'd be back on the blower to his son and get in touch with SS myself and not let up, this man, sorry to say from what you're saying is starting to be a danger to himself and others too. He needs to be in a secure household with carers around the clock.. Such a shame I know but he clearly can't be left to fend for himself.

A friend of mine saw something similar happen to an elderly man who used to drink in the pub we worked in at the time. She lived in the same road and and used to visit him. His family weren't much use and in the end she sorted out meals on wheels and a carer to visit him daily. It then got to the point he was struggling even with this and with my friend banging on doors with SS they got him into a care home, sadly he lasted 2 weeks there before he passed away. We went to his funeral, no family turned up and it was a few of us who worked and drank in the pub... Very sad...

You are doing so much for this man, and I applaud you for that, as many would just stand back and try and ignore it. He clearly trusts you too, which will help in many situations you are likely to face in the next few weeks.

If he does start to pose a real danger to himself and/or others, more so than what he is doing then call the local Police. Sometimes it needs this call to kick SS up the back end to do something...

Well it sounds like at least the youngster is sorted, a working collie's life might not be what many of us would choose (she looks at her pampered lap dogs on the sofa) but if that's what he's bred for than he will be happy doing it. Just hope the old chap can be got into a home before he becomes any more of a danger to himself or others, and that the older dog can be found a home. Or could the Cinammon Trust help find them somewhere together?

Just wanted to applaud you for all you have done for this old boy. Restores my faith in humanity.

The biggest problem has been the fact that its been christmas and new year.All the services have been shut.Absolutely ridiculous if you ask me but ...hopefully tomorrow when everyone is back working then something will get done.If it hasn't been sorted by tomorrow I'll be phoning the police myself to ask them to go and take his car keys from him.Apparently he's been seen driving on wrong side of road now !!
The son is half hearted about it all and wont actually DO something NOW.

Cheers

So very difficult for all around him if his family won't take action. I hope it can be sorted safely soon. Maybe the rescue place that you had lined up for the puppy will be needed for the older collie.

> Maybe the rescue place that you had lined up for the puppy will be needed for the older collie.

I hope not... I can't imagine anything more distressing for him, when it seems everything else is going to be taken away from him. I hope there is some solution, perhaps sheltered warden-assisted housing where he can keep his dog. He may be having episodes of dementia, but that doesn't mean he isn't aware of what's happening.

Hiya,

Well done on sorting the little Collie pup out :-) Does anyone know for sure that this old man definitely has senile dementia or if he does that it is what is causing the sudden decline now, it just seems that there are very rapid changes over a very short space of time.  Things like urine infections in older people can have a big impact on behaviour very quickly. 

I think that kind of thing and contact with doctors should maybe be checked out first before he has his life changed for him.  While the dogs welfare is incredibly important and it is lucky that he has someone else looking out for him, I hate the thought of the old man loosing something that maybe is the only things he has in his life by the sounds of it if there is a chance that they can be kept together.  Obviously if he is a danger to himself and other and this isn;t something that can be managed then something needs to be done.  Is he with it enough that you can talk to him about the collie, if not how ius he managing to feed himself and the collie and get through day to day, it';s just I've had family with dementia and they weren't have been capable of remembering to feed themselves let alone a dog by the time the were doing the sort of things it sounds like he is doing - I can't remember but think you said the older collie dog seemed in good condition.

Sorry you are the stress of dealing with this - have you managed to speak to any of his family again?

I hope not... I can't imagine anything more distressing for him, when it seems everything else is going to be taken away from him. I hope there is some solution, perhaps sheltered warden-assisted housing where he can keep his dog. He may be having episodes of dementia, but that doesn't mean he isn't aware of what's happening.

I would agree with that - I hope there is some other solution.

Does anyone know for sure that this old man definitely has senile dementia or if he does that it is what is causing the sudden decline now, it just seems that there are very rapid changes over a very short space of time.  Things like urine infections in older people can have a big impact on behaviour very quickly.

Totally agree with this comment, a neighbour was diagnosed with the onset of dementia, it turned out she hadnt been drinking enough and has caused a kidney infection and also had dehydration which had affected her brain. She was given help daily and someone had to be there when she had her meals and she had to drink a certain amount each day. Shes absolutely fine now but still needs the help.
It might just be that this poor old man is severly dehydrated and really needs help with his meals and drinking etc.
Fingers crossed for a happy outcome though.
At least the little pup has been saved, just a shame about the older one. We had a BC many years ago and she was a fantastic dog but definitly a 1 person dog. When my ex hubby and I divorced she stayed with me but I knew she wasnt happy without him, so she went with him and was very happy for another 5 yrs until she collapsed and died of a heart attack on Christmas Day in the garden!!!!

Just a quick final update .

Well after a nightmare week , a 3 hour police search with helicopter and ending in having to break into his house , the old gentleman has finally been taken into care.He is undergoing a full assessment which will include brain scans ect.Although not definate yet , early thoughts are that he won't be coming back out to go home.I have very mixed feelings as i have grown very fond of the old guy over the last few weeks after hours spent chatting to him about the war and his life over cups of tea and going around most evenings to see he has taken his dog in from the car for the night ect.I am very pleased he is now safe and being well fed and looked after but very sad he has lost his independence.

This now leaves us with the dilema of what to do with his 6 yr old collie.We are looking after him for the time being until we have a definate answer that he is not coming out again, but i will have to look for a long term home for him ( I can't bear to send him to a kennels ).After spending more time with him , he is proving to be a wondeful dog.Very very freindly .I think over time once he bonds with a new owner he will be a great pet.Hes soooo intelligent.Loves working for treats and loves his balls which will all help to make training easier.We will be working on his recall while we have him.The only thing we need to access is how he is with other dogs. I think being with young children will be a no no , as he has never been socialised with them , but i'm sure older calm ones would be fine.He has never been on his own though , so a home that has someone around most of the time would be best and with a secure garden , until he has bonded and knows to stay put ;-)

So if anyone knows of anyone that is looking for a new collie , please get in touch.

Thanks for all your kind posts over the last few weeks.

What an angel you have been with this old boy and his dogs. I'm so glad the puppy has found a new home and the older dog sounds like he will be fine with you looking after him and finding a new home too. :-)

Please contact the cinnamon trust, they will be able to advise and help, they are great and will find a permanent foster home for the dog whilst his elderley owner is looked after even if its permanently.

http://www.cinnamon.org.uk/home.html

its been a few years since I dealt with them but hopefully they are still the same but anyway definately worth a call

I agree, you have been an angel for this man and his dog, you have cared so much - beyond the call of neighbourly "duty" bless you :)

I do hope that everything gets sorted out for his dog. I am sorry the elderly man is now being cared for away from his home - sad that things get to this stage, and sad for him as no-one would choose to live in a home or to be looked after instead of being in their own home.

best wishes
Lindsay
x

Final update.We have managed to find Taz a new home.His next door but 1 Neighbour in the village has a daughter that lives in the countyside and they were thinking of getting a rescue dog.They have had 2 collies before so know their quirks and have welcomed Taz with open arms.Can't tell you how happy we all are.Old gent staying in a care home now which is sad but atleast he is safe.
So all in all what was a terribly sad situation has turned out the best we could have hoped for. Yeah !!!!! ( by the way the cinnamon trust couldn't help but thanks for the link anyway )

Glad that it has all turned out OK with no harm coming to animals or humans. It must be good to be able to relax now and know that everything is sorted. It was lucky that you were around to help and well done for doing so.

( by the way the cinnamon trust couldn't help but thanks for the link anyway )

I have never actually heard of anyone that they have managed to help - maybe they are small and on limited funds?

Glad the dog has a new home and that the elderly gent is safe :-)

They aren't small but are on limited funds - and tend to work in a different way.

I know someone locally who is a volunteer dog walker for the Cinnamon Trust in this area - he walks dogs that belong to elderly or incapacitated people who either can't take them out themselves, or can't afford to pay a walker. He's also one of those folks whom every dog seems to adore, but can't have one of his own, so it's great all round :)