Ok long story short a friend got a pup a long time ago from a breeder, saw parents they seemed ok and breeder said they had fantastic temperments. Friend stayed friends with the breeder and a few years later the breeder let slip that the parents had 'firey temperments' and that the female had attacked them and they had to rehome her and the male in there own words is the worst littlest **** they have. When my friend told me about that i was shocked that my friend still went back and got another puppy from this breeder after they found out that they lied about there dogs temperment in the past. I told my friend that i wouldnt go back to them if it was me but my friends reply was that of course they wouldnt tell puppy buyers that the parents didnt have good temperments as people wouldnt want the pups. the way i see it surly a good breeder wouldnt breed from dogs with bad temperments in the first place.

So how important is the parents having a good temperment to good breeders?
(figured where better to ask good breeders than on here)

Okay... well for one, there are breeders, and there are 'breeders' (in any species not just dogs). If there was any question about the parents' temperaments, then possibly some research could have been done via the breed club and/or breeders who knew the lines, to find out if this was hereditary. This is one reason why the KC and breed clubs exist.... Or should be.

I appreciate that some people are not very forthcoming and sometimes try to hide defects but in my experience, people who have seen, handled or own relatives of certain animals can have valuable experience to add. At least if a certain animal has been out in a show ring and has been viewed by people, possibly also handled, then any termperament issues usually come to light.

> the way i see it surly a good breeder wouldnt breed from dogs with bad temperments in the first place.
>
>

Damn right!   There would be little point in me breeding from snappy, yappy dogs that I would never be able to show.   And any dog that doesn't reach show standard needs to have a smashing temperament for pet.

It depends if a fiery temperament is typical for the breed.

Many terriers for example are game, and need to be for the vermin control they are bred for.

This does not mean they have a 'bad temperament'.  Though the bitch biting the owner does sound bad depending on situation (was she perhaps fighting with another dog). 

As for the male being a little shit, again depends what is meant, is he a sparky little devil when it comes to other males etc.

Is your friends dog a nice natured one, as of course a lot of a dogs nature will also be influenced by training and environment.

In general temperament is the one most important factor when breeding.

After all you can live with an ugly good natured dog quite happily.

yeah my friends dog is good but if anyone else is handling him he will play up, but other than that he is a loverly dog.

i dont realy know too much about the parents just what ive hurd second hand as ive met the breeder a few times and from my experances with them i personaly dont like them.

ive met the breeder a few times and from my experances with them i personaly dont like them.

LOL Jo, it is important to like the breeders of a pup you are going to buy but not essential. As to the temperament it depends on the breed, what breed is your friends dog? As it's temperament seems to be fine then perhaps the comments made about the parents may not be as straightforward as it seems.

However as you suggest if a dog has a uncharacteristic temperament for the breed then it should not be used for breeding even if that temperament is too soft rather than too feisty.

its lhasa apso's.

yeah, dont think they liked me either lol one time i went up there they asked my if i had put on weight!

good point about temperments being too soft for the breed, i never thought about that

Not a breed I am familiar with but many of the smaller breeds can be one person dogs and a bit sharp with strangers, however we do not know what the problem with the parents were and some people would say dog was a devil because it tried to stand it's ground and the same of a bitch because during a mating they misdirected a snap, perhaps it is the breeders who have a temperament fault and it is certain they have a lack of manners.

> So how important is the parents having a good temperment to good breeders?
>

Everything.

What good is physical health if the dogs mental health is impaired?

And that is what a bad temperament is.
A dog so scared to live its life in peace.... or so aggressive, it has to live half a life, contained with no interaction, no freedom etc is very sad indeed.

Lhasas should be aloof but not fiery...a totally alien behaviour.

Modern day dogs often cant adhere strictly to the original temperament because it is not socially acceptable. In the show ring a truly 'aloof' lhasa wouldnt be handled so some modification has occured.

As far as I'm concerned, good temperament is equally as important as good health. Without one then you can forget the other.

Look at the news stories about dog attacks - that's why good temperament is so important. Doesn't matter whether for the show ring, for work of any description or for pet. Simple.

As far as I'm concerned, good temperament is equally as important as good health. Without one then you can forget the other.

And that goes for looks as well. In my latest litter of 9, I TOTALLY ignored looks and picked what pup to keep on temperament ONLY. (Now granted this was a very nice litter and it's rare in my breed to get a pup that isn't showable.)

> And that goes for looks as well. In my latest litter of 9, I TOTALLY ignored looks and picked what pup to keep on temperament ONLY

Marianne - what temperament did you choose?  Just my own interest here.  Was it the most outgoing, middle of the road, quiet?

What did you choose and why?  No catch here by the way, this is purely my own curiousity in a breed I haven't owned.

> Marianne - what temperament did you choose?  Just my own interest here.  Was it the most outgoing, middle of the road, quiet?

I'm interested too - was it a temperament you wanted to maintain for future breeding, or one that fitted in with your existing dogs? I guess when it comes down to this level we may be talking about 'character' rather than temperament as such - choosing what works and fits in. But puppies can change can't they - how does it work picking pups, is it accurate as to how they turn out in later life?

Marianne - what temperament did you choose?  Just my own interest here.  Was it the most outgoing, middle of the road, quiet?

What did you choose and why?  No catch here by the way, this is purely my own curiousity in a breed I haven't owned.

I have seen far too many nervous dogs in my breed in the last few years (with too many all rounder judges making allowances for it "being acceptable in the breed" -I've actually seen critiques saying that! Breed standard says wary of strangers but not nervous -they should not jump in the air when touched by strangers), and that includes a litter bred by myself where I am spaying the bitch I kept as although stunning, she is far too shy, so I am determined to do something about it. Hence I chose the most outgoing, over the top puppy as my first pick -the one that doesn't even bat an eyelid whatever happens. The one who was first to do everything.  Pleased to say the entire litter is very outgoing and the two buyers I had who got a pup both from this litter and the problem one (where not ALL were too shy, but some -that is bad enough) -noticed the difference the second they met the pups and remarked on it. After all, here is a breed meant to be able to work as police dogs, so they should be able to cope with a lot -not less than other breeds. Even more pleased to say, two of these pups are going to the MOD police dog section. :)

>Breed standard says wary of strangers but not nervous

Absolutely. Wary and nervous aren't synonymous. I'm wary when crossing a busy road, but I'm not nervous of traffic in general.

how does it work picking pups, is it accurate as to how they turn out in later life?

In my experience, yes, to a large extent. I've seen it in both my breeds. For this latest litter I've gone back to how I started -picked my first ever Malinois on temperament alone (the one who kept coming to me, forward and happy and fearless), determined I had NO interest in showing at all so just ignored looks -and got a great temperament -and a Champion too LOL.

> picked my first ever Malinois on temperament alone (the one who kept coming to me, forward and happy and fearless),

Is how I chose my dog, in fact I felt he chose me, sometimes much too fearless for a quiet life (!) but as to his love of other people and friendliness to those he meets, also his confidence as a young pup, his apparent enjoyment of learning about new things experiences etc. I know sometimes they say Never pick the pup that comes to you first etc... well he wasn't the first out, but the most interested and interactive, & when all the rest had gone back into the pen he was the one who still just kept looking at me.... his eyes never left my face. I heard that he ignored all the other people who came to view later. Thanks Marianne, I guess my instinct isn't too bad then ;)

Marianne

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.  This board is a way for everyone to learn.  Not just about our own breeds, but adding to knowledge about our beloved canines.

:-)   Jean

Yes thanks marriane, I am looking for a pup next year and know the type of temperment I am looking for its being able to spot the likely pup in the litter that concerns me. I will however by the time I get that far have spoken to the breeder a number of times and met them. I am hoping to show but being a happy laid back healthy pet is my first need

Wow Marianne hope ur pups do well in the police!

thanks for the replys everyone i was good to read everyones  opyions and to see that temperment is important to breeders :)

> thanks for the replys everyone i was good to read everyones  opyions and to see that temperment is important to breeders :-)

For those who show then a very outgoing pup who has a look at me attitude is a huge bonus, though often these Diva's can be a little strong minded, LOL

Now for my breed Bold and Energetic is the requited temperament so a showy temperament goes with this typical desired temperament.

the problem occurs in breeds that are naturally aloof, should the breeder be altering this to possibly gassy and showy, and super outgoing which is nto typical????

There should be no place in any breeding program for a nervous or aggresive animal.