Barbara will talk for herself but I believe she undertook this enterprise for the breed as a whole and I am sure all her bitches are able to take a journey in a travel cage in their stride they are after all used to travelling and finding themselves somewhere new and exciting and if it is not they go to sleep.

Phew what a journey, delighted to here you got home safe n sound in the end. I hope you get a super quality litter after all your efforts.

K 

>I can't help thinking that although this may be good for the breed in the country it does lend weight to the argument that show people don't always put their dogs comfort and best interests first.

chaumsong - perhaps that's a debate for another day and another thread, it seems a bit churlish to put it here

Barbara - welcome home

At the end of the day anyone who's read any of Barbara's/Brainless's posts knows how much she loves her dogs AND the breed.  And of course she knew the risks of flying this time of year.  I'm sure she wouldn't have taken the bitch she did unless she was confident that the bitch would be fine. 

Much as it's not my choice to fly my dogs, many do it and do it safely.  To the dog's it's just a long nap.  I think to often we put our own fears/insecurities and feelings onto our animals.

I have 3 dogs I would never consider flying, because I don't believe they have the confidence to handle that kind of strange situation on their own.  I have one who would totally thrive on it and would love the adventure, so I wouldn't hesitate to fly her in theory.  In practice I just won't fly one of mine, but for the right home I might fly a puppy.

At the end of the day the only person who knows their dogs well enough is their owner, and I have no doubt that Brainless' choice was not detrimental to her bitch.  If it was - it wouldn't be worth spending the money/time doing it as chances the mating would even take would be low.

Just my .02

PS - welcome home Barbara - glad you finally made it

Dean says it would need a lot of persuasion, me not again for a few years at least, I'm sure we have aged several years.

Something only to be considered if you really need to do it..

It should only have meant 8 hours in crate maximum by only letting her go to loading as late as possible, and of course she was with me throughout the car journeys )less two hours on ferry).

If she had gone cargo it would have meant an extra 5 hours in crate both ends and several hours in Quarantine kennels at Heath row on top of the 8 (outward) and 6.5 (to Brussels) hours flight times.

So not much more time than being kennelled at night e.g. when people go on holiday.

I was cross about the water as I got an extra deep twp pint clamp on bowl that slotted and twisted onto the base so couldn't be dislodged, filled it with about 2 inches of water which couldn't slosh out, but they wouldn't let me top it up in security at JFK before confiscating my remaining water.

> that length of flight if I was emigrating and it was the difference between taking them with me or not, but is it fair just to come back a few days later?

The flight out was 8 hours (though we arrived early, and prior to them taking her away just before boarding passengers I had spent 3.5 hours walking her around Heathrow (to ensure she was tired and ready to sleep her flight away), DAP spraying her Varikennel.  So really no worse than a long car journey to a show in the UK.

We were away for 12 days.

May people shut dogs in a crate on a regular basis for longer than she should have been.  I only normally use them in the car, at shows while changing dogs, and while having meals in a hotel.

> at this time of year delays and bad weather are to be expected.
>
>

I opted for a cold weather journey (my breed are very comfortable with cold) rather thah risk journeying in heat, which was the alternative if I had chosen her next season.

I dont know why you need to justify your decision B, as you said dogs sleep longer than that on a normal day.
You will have been mindful of your bitches temperament, confident that she could cope.
You can be happy in the knowledge that you may have expanded the gene pool of your breed in the UK and probably secured more healthy diversity.

Some people do need to take these hard decisions.

Just out of interest would the kc allow AI in this sort of situation if you were able to justify that it will enhance the gene pool and only create a better chance for the breed to improve if the gene pool is so small ? Also what is classed as a small gene pool ?

I think as far as the general public are concerned, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Feel it's a too long journey to go the US to mate a bitch? Then breeders are money grabbing uncaring individuals who don't want to help bring fresh blood into their breed. Go ahead with the journey -then breeders are uncaring people who don't take their bitch into consideration. Meanwhile the pet dogs of the country are roaming free and getting run over, tied up outside shops and getting stolen, bred willy nilly with money as the sole object, crated most of the day and all night as the owners haven't trained them to be clean in the house and not chew -I could go on. At the end of the day only the bitch's owner can make a real judgment as to what works for them or not as so much depends on the bitch.

The KC allow AI to any stud dog NOT currently living in Uk or to a UK dog that is deceased  - no permission required at all.  Problem with AI is success rates .. import of semen is often as costly as travel to the stud for live mating with lower chance of pups

> Just out of interest would the kc allow AI in this sort of situation if you were able to justify that it will enhance the gene pool

As long as the dog is proven the KC would already allow AI if the dog is resident in another country - it doesn't need to be justified in any other way.  But importing semen from another country is costly and involves all kinds of red tape.  And as always a natural mating has a better chance than an AI mating.

For me, I am planning on travelling to Sweden (so not as far as Brainless) in the late spring/early summer.  I looked into the cost of collecting/importing/implanting etc semen and after I totted it all up including the red tape DEFRA wanted us to deal with I figured if I was spending that much money on the breeding at least I wanted the best chance of it taking (and  a small holiday as well), so we decided to travel rather than import.

Why is it so expensive ?

> Why is it so expensive ?

I don't know the exact reasons, however a lot of it is to do with the fact that  everything has to be done timely, the semen has to be stored in a specific way, transferred, then government paperwork, then storage if you go with frozen till it's ready, or else going with fresh chilled involves everything going to plan and timing - that just wouldn't have happened with the weather we've been seeing right now and deliveries being all over the place, so all that money to get it here in the right timing would probably have been lost.

With just the initial enquiries, we found it was going to cost the better part of 2k to import from Sweden, including collection, shipping, storage etc. 

__

edit to add that I forgot the cost of the implantation itself.

So what hoops do you have to jump through for defra? Do you think it is justified ?

Also what are the rates of success of a normal mating to AI ?

Then you need to pay a repro specialist to implant.  Progesterone tesing and absolute must.

If you use Fresh chilled for a PETS county then the donor must be PETS travel;e compliant (Rabies. titre and 6 months wait after before donating).  Frozen has to be stored for 6 months in originating country if not Rabies free etc, and all these people want paying and paying well.

It sounds a like a shed load of red tape and expense then. Is this the same for all animals or just dogs ?

Surely they could test the semen for rabies to avoid the storage for six months ?

Is this the same for all animals or just dogs ?

Horses seem to be able to travel anywhere without quarantine. No idea if semen from farm animals are ever imported/exported. Cats you cannot easily do AI with (i.e. hardly anyone does) as it would involve general anaesthetic both to collect and to implant it, and I only know of one vet in Europe who does it.

Horses have to have passports don't they ?

Not in the same way at all. As far as I know it has nothing to do with rabies etc, in fact it is used within the UK itself.

Horse passports: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/AnimalsAndPets/DG_178412

Import and export of horses -note it says if the horse stays in the UK for less than 30 days it does not even need a passport.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/AnimalsAndPets/DG_178464

Barbara,
Glad you and Inka are home safe and sound at last.
Have a lovely Christmas and a very Happy New Year....fingers crossed for a beautiful litter in the new year.

Echoing toffeecrisp!

Glad that you are back safe and sound, we have been biting our nails this end!  :-)

Enjoy Christmas Barbara, and fingers crosssed  for Inca.  Although, from your reports, I think you would have to be damned unlucky for her not to be pregnant.

Exciting isn't it!  :-)

Thanks guys and think Pink but with at least two nice boys too.

Aren't you glad that yr home now and not stuck in their blizzards. All their flights are cancelled now.

Saw that last night and thought how glad I was that Barbara was home.

I rang the stud dog owner late last night so teatime there end they have so much snow she has gone and got hay for the dogs (outdoor kennelled). 

She couldn't get straw, probably all her neighbours with horses have bought it up.

She said the blizzard was so bad that the wind blew her over in her own back yard.

Considering that we have had low temperatures in the last weeks that would not have allowed us to fly, weather closing airports and causing cancellations, the rather hairy trip home with only 8 hours delay in flight getting in due to the malfunctions re-routing us to Dublin, we only were four hours late getting Ferry, someone has been watching over us.

I think all my Friends' here and elsewhere positive thoughts have seen us through.