hi,

Sorry I know this is a sensitive subject but I was just wondering how people work out what price their puppies should be, obviously I know most people on here aren't profit breeders and only breed for the development and love of their breed and to continue show lines etc. but I'm going to need to work out a price for my litter soon.  I know roughly what the going rate is (obviously its not something people usually advertise) but I know there's also a huge difference in the price of pedigree dogs of the same breed so:

-  Do you put the price up if you've used an exceptionally good stud or the bitch is a champion?
-  Do you price puppies differently for characteristics that would make them difficult to show e.g. poor colour markings etc.
-  Do you charge more when you've had a small litter or had to do a C section?
-  Do you charge more for bitches (never quite understood this as surely they cost the same to produce)

As everyone on here does we've invested a lot of time and money into health testing, selecting studs we'll be spending 3 weeks on 24hr puppy watch, our house is at 23 degrees in december (no easy feat as its 100 yrs old and very drafty) not to mention the emotional stress & worry plus the puppy food & any vet bills. 

I was just looking on some classifed sites (i'm sure you know the 2) and I can't believe what I'm seeing adverts for un-health tested, x breeds that say pedigree -without papers, KC reg (without papers - thats not even possible to my knowledge), adverts for stud dogs that are willing to mate with anything for £50, some of the cross breeds are going up to £1500 per puppy!

I'm worrying about the price I'll have to charge for my pups as I don't want to put off really good potential pet owners, I know i'm not making a profit out of this but don't want people to think I'm being greedy and the home they go to is more important than the money by far. 

Just read it back and its a bit of a ramble but hope you sort of understood what I was getting at -

I will charge the same for all my pups.

I'm not sure what would happen if they had a physical defect - but that is v rare in my breed and unlikely to occur, so I'll cross that bridge then.

I will base what I charge on what other reputable breeders charge.  It will be towards the upper end though, as I will be travelling to Europe & back for the mating and pups will also be docked and chipped.  Despite all that, I would only charge whatever the upper end is, based on other reputable breeders.

You do not make money doing this.  In fact, if you do it properly, you probably lose money when studs are far away and much travel is involved - or at least just break even.

I kept my singleton this time round, but last time I asked my friends in the breed what they were charging, they both live in the area we now live in, and then I charged just a little more because I lived in London then and everything's more expensive, haha! Neither of my puppy buyers from that litter had any quibbles on price so I can't have been too expensive. :-)

-  Do you put the price up if you've used an exceptionally good stud or the bitch is a champion?

No -I'd like to think I always use the best possible parents and I don't think it would really work anyway. I had a litter in 2006, bitch mated BEFORE my breed gained championship status, so obviously there were no Champions in the pedigree at all, as there couldn't be. Now, both of these parents are Champions. If I charged more for Champion parents, how would that work if they became Champions later? Could end up being both complicated and unfair if litter x had no Champion parents and people were charged a lower price, and litter y had a Champion parent and people were charged more. If litter x's parents then became Champions you can't charge extra later, so it would be unfair on those buyers from litter y who did pay more.

-  Do you price puppies differently for characteristics that would make them difficult to show e.g. poor colour markings etc.

Yes, but only if it is something obvious  that DEFINITELY would stop the pup from ever being shown, such as it being incorrectly marked or having a kinked tail or similar.

-  Do you charge more when you've had a small litter or had to do a C section?

No -those costs are my problems, not the buyers'. Again it would be illogical. Say you had a litter of 5, no vet costs, and charged £500 a pup and then had a litter of one and vet costs of £2000 -surely that one pup should then not cost £2500.

-  Do you charge more for bitches (never quite understood this as surely they cost the same to produce)

No -that is the back yard breeder's thing and would only encourage breeding to make money.

I am keeping the same price for my pups as I've charged for some time.  Sadly in my breed many have put the price up.  I for the last two litters have only had two in a litter and kept a pup both times, I did not put up the price at all.  My litter before that again was a litter of three, again I sold a pup a lot cheaper as I wanted to show him and him to be available, very upset as the owners haven't stuck to this and he's an outstanding example of the breed.

I think that the price that I already charge is enough and don't agree with the sudden increases, even more so with this economical climate.  I cannot see me ever charging that price either.

When myself and my friends brought the breed into the company we agreed that we wouldn't charge astronomical prices as we felt that the wrong kind of person would buy them and I still feel this way.  It has actually made me question whether I am happy now at bringing the breed into the country.  Of course I am as I adore them and would never be without one

- MarianneBDo you charge more when you've had a small litter or had to do a C section?

No -those costs are my problems, not the buyers'. Again it would be illogical. Say you had a litter of 5, no vet costs, and charged £500 a pup and then had a litter of one and vet costs of £2000 -surely that one pup should then not cost £2500

i completely agree the risks are down to me and just because I had a small litter or large vet bills shouldn't effect a puppy buyers price, i'm guessing though with some breeds where small litters and C sections are standard breeders must take this into account (but then so would others in that breed)

I just don't think joe public understand the costs involved - I know i certainly didn't when I was younger I remember being staggered at what my parents paid for their pedigree dog when I wasn't even allowed designer trainers! - but they just said to me a responsibly well-bred healthy dog saves thousands on vets bills and you get lifetime support.  But people must see so many dogs on other websites for £50 and think that we're gold diggers when they couldn't be more wrong!

The sort of people that you want to be selling a puppy to, are fully aware of why we charge what we charge.  Ie - they have done their homework and understand that.  Only someone who knew absolutely nothing at all would believe that we are gold diggers.  And that's not the sort of person I want buying a pup from me anyway.

I sold the puppy left over from my litter for the price of the stud fee. The stud was a Champion dog no longer in the country as exported soon after to campaign abroad. Many in the breed sell at £350 above this price but his owners wanted a pet and could have bought a pet elsewhere for a similar price to the one I set albeit not KC registered. My thinking was he went to a wonderful home who were delighted with his price and I am delighted he will be with them forever. This meant I got to keep my own puppy without charge except of course I vaccinated and microchipped the litter at my cost. I bred to get a puppy I wanted not to make money or recoup costs. My previous litter cost me £2000 in costs and produced one pup who stayed here. I find selling puppies the hardest bit, good luck deciding!

My current litter has so far cost £3000 in stud fee and vet fees alone and I have 2 surviving babies...
One staying here and another being gifted to a friend (as I don't think anybody would pay £3000 for him :) )...

Makes me laugh when people hear about the litter they say oh, you have your xmas sorted then...
Yes, no money for food or presents just 2 beautiful babies to spend loads of time with...

My girl is an import, the stud lives abroad and I was going to ask £50 more than the normal going price for the breed.
But I was also going to return some money if health tests are done so in reality if the new owner health tested the pup, with the money refunded the pup would have cost less than the going price for the breed.

Interesting that people don't charge more for pups if the costs of producing the litter are higher than expected.
After seeing this news item http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12044632 a dog having 17 puppies, just wondering whether breeders would reduce the price of the puppies if a much larger than expected litter is born? or would they still charge the same price and make a profit on the litter?

I don't think there is anything wrong with making a profit on a litter when it has been well reared in every possible way -goodness knows the work is so hard we deserve it. It's COUNTING on making a profit or getting costs back -or cutting corners - that's wrong. It's a hobby, people don't generally make money from hobbies, nor expect to.

I agree that profit or loss doesn't make much difference - sometimes you do make a profit but you also risk making a massive loss and as long as you are prepared for the losses thats fine.  I've heard of people who have had their bitch PTS after the vets told them that all the puppies were dead inside her and she needed a C-section to save her life - knowing that there was no money inside the bitch she wasn't worth the expense!!!!!!! Thats why pretty much everyone on here is a hobby breeder because to call yourself commercial would mean making cost saving decisions that we would not be prepared to even entertain.

When we do say profit we don't actually mean it anyway as that little extra money will be spent on grooming, show entries, travel to shows, jabs, food, treats plus the initial outlay of your dogs.......

I'm set on what I'm charging now but will be selling one pup at 40% of that cost (the runt as he has a kinked tail), he will be going to a friend and it'll be an exceptional home.  I can guarantee he'll be castrated there - he won't be signed over until he's been snipped and knowing my friends opinions on dogs with balls i can't see her having too much of a problem with it anyway!

thanks for all your advice :)