ok ..watched it all day yesterday ....what are your thoughts....????

Not sure you want to know!!!

I hope that all of the students who participated in this protest won't be tarred with the same brush!

Unfortunately I think they will :(

I am absolutely disgusted by the students - If any of them were my children I would disown them immediately.

The 2 bits that upset / angered me the most was obviously them attacking the car with Prince Charles in it - disgraceful, and them pulling a policeman off his horse and the horse then went on to trample all over him - he was carried off in a stretcher.

I don't think it's the students that are causing all the violence, but anarchists who see the demonstrations as an excuse to join in and cause mayhem :( they need scooping up and throwing in prison for a short sharp shock (not the students the yob element).

All demonstrations seem to get hijacked by people who're just out to cause trouble, and give the genuine protesters a bad name.

I feel really sorry for the students who will not be able to go on to uni due to the massive hike in student fees. not all students want to have a huge debt when they start their working life, many do not have parents wealthy enough to help with all the other costs involved==housing, food, books etc. So, its not just the high fees but the others costs too. I was certainly supportive of peaceful protest, petitions etc to get their point across. I do not agree in any shape or form that the fees should have been raised. Nothing will change my mind on that, no matter how long they will have to pay it back, nor how much they will have to earn before repayments start.

However.....the violence shown in a great number of places, this is not the way to go and any sympathy and support these students may have had from the public will most certainly have been lost by the actions of those who chose to protest in this way. I don't know if the offenders are all students, or simply those that enjoy this type of behaviour and join in regardless of being students or not, but at the end of the day their actions are despicable and will not gain them the support they need.

well I see it as part yob element..but also government involvement ....I thing they want this to turn the public against the students and take the heat off them for what they are doing this is just the start when people begin loosing more and more jobs and have less and less cash there will be riots all over the country..
I also notice they decided to announce 1400 job losses at British aerospace on the same day knowing full well it wouldnt get as much publicity as the protest.
I really am against the violence but did see a lot of police violence on the tv last night ...very touchy subject I know.
I rarely believe anything the news ie sky, bbc report they show what they want to show.
I mean why would Charles and Camilla take that route to the Palladium its doesnt make sense ... I do watch a lot of spooks !!!!! :)

well I see it as part yob element..but also government involvement ....I thing they want this to turn the public against the students and take the heat off them for what they are doing

Excellent point.

I'm am disgusted at the behaviour of these people. Some are students and some are people jumping on the band wagon to incite violence.
The Police I couldn't see do anything wrong, they were clearly defending themselves. I was watching some footage and the fact that they had metal poles thrown at them meant they had to defend themselves...How do you expect Police to react to such violence towards them and others?

Violence gets you nowhere and tbh these people if they can be caught should be named and shamed for this.

The amount of times i've heard on Radio 2 people who are in the NUS and work for them condoning the behaviour of breaking into buildings, scaring people and causing damage, they tend to turn a blind eye to the violence to make out they haven't seen it(Open your eyes its clearly happening in front of you and all over the TV)..

How anyone can condone breaking the law is beyond me.. Sorry but its not on, have a hissy fit becuase you are unhappy with something??..GROW UP PEOPLE!!!

I do not in any way condone the violent behaviour, having been the other side of a riot shield it's scarey- police officers are only human!! We also have to remember that sometimes the camera pans onto a situation and we only see a snippet of what is taking place.As always there is going to be the trouble maker element, renta mob who spoil it for the majority, they turn up at every demo, organised trouble.

Don't read the paper but saw a front page the other day of a student causing damage and making their feelings known, not trying to hide their face, if  this had been either of my children I would have been horrified, are these really the young academics who are going to be the adults of the future? if they represent the majority then we are in deep doggy doo!!

I think one of the things I find most disturbing is the damaging of monuments, people who fought so this country has free speech.

These trouble makers do not help the students cause and it's our taxes that will be used to repair the damage.

>Open your eyes its clearly happening in front of you and all over the TV)..<

Yes you are seeing what the news people want you to see...

Dont misunderstand me I do not condone violence in any form ...{as a teenager I lived through the riots in Liverpool in the 80's..it was terrifying....So have also seen the other side of rioting.}

I saw things being thrown yesterday ...but I also saw violence from the police beating  youths with batons trying to pick people up who had fallen on the ground....
I watched the news all day yesterday...and some things just didnt quite tally.... stuff that didnt quite add up I believe  there is a cover up ....(if I wrote it all this post would be to long )

We know it goes on look at the case of Mark Aspinall the off duty soldier being beaten by a  police officer, the policeman lied under oath to protect himelf and is now behind bars. I am not anti police in fact quite the oposite but there are good and bad as with the protesters yesterday ...they are all being labelled and I dont agree with it...

The government lied to us.. want us the public to believe the news reports  the papers and the government so until it actually involves 'you' as a person then its wrong .... as I said earlier when unemployment hits harder , no work , no money , people will revolt, to me  this is just the start.

well I see it as part yob element..but also government involvement I do love it when conspiracy theories come out in situations like this !! :-P

So the person who threw the Air Con Unit off the roof a Millbank Towers, he was a student wasn't he ?.It was so lucky that nobody was killed or injured

I think there are the yob element but there are also students who are lemmings that cannot control themselves.

I have my eldest in her first year at Uni and although she doesn't agree to increase in fees she wanted to carry on with her studies to make sure she didn't get behind and make sure she gets the best possible results. If I had known she was going to go on one of these protests then I would have actively persuaded her to not go on them. To get your face on any of the CC TV pictures aorund any of the acts of criminal activties would seriously jepordise your whole future.

I also think allowing school students on these marches is wholey irresponsible of both parents and teachers.

> I do love it when conspiracy theories come out in situations like this !! <

believe it or not I have read about the government paying groups to infiltrate these type of student protest groups and cause trouble which then backfires on the students ..this kind of thing actually goes on but does sound ubelieveable ...I suppose just like people didnt believe Anna Chapman was in fact a russian spy...:)

Unfortunately, it is the minority spoiling it for the majority. Students will always protest :) Young people (in general) only see things in two colours - black and white. What they can't see is that if the government don't increase fees, either there will be less places at universities or less money spent on health, schools etc. I can't understand why some people still say that they don't want to get into debt and therefore won't go to university ???? Would they rather taxes were just increased ? Yes, they wouldn't have a high debt, but they (and every other taxpayer) would be paying for their education anyway.

The money has to come from somewhere - and it is always from the taxpayer in one way or another. The government doesn't just have a bottomless pit of money. If they try to tax the very wealthy (as some people want), they will just up and go elsewhere - they can afford to do so.

It's always NIMBYism - we want it, but don't want to pay for it :(

Daisy

> believe it or not I have read about the government paying groups to infiltrate these type of student protest groups

The government doesn't need to pay anyone :) :) :) If you watched BBC Breakfast this morning and saw Clare Solomon the President of the University of London Students' Union you would know that there are plenty of students (still a minority tho') who condone this sort of behaviour. Some of those pictured on the television were wearing dark clothing, balaclavas and had their own riot shields - they also must have had paint and 'weapons' for smashing things. This happens at G10 Summits etc etc, not just at student demonstrations. These are highly organised people who don't believe in democracy and 'peaceful' protest.

Daisy

But those who go to university, in the main get better pay so pay more tax. The government is hell bent on making this a 'them and us' situation. I would contend that most people who did not go to university do not object to some of their tax going towards university fees as they recognise that this is where teachers, nurses, doctors, lawmakers etc come from, and most hope that their children will also benefit from a University education.

Successive governments wanted more people to have a university education as we were so far down the world lists, unfortunately they forgot to make sure they could pay for it, so decided to make the students pay themselves. I would have less objection had this not been introduced so quickly - how can you plan finances when this sort of thing is dropped on you?  I would also have less objection had the very people who are asking students to pay, not benefited from a free system themselves. Many of them also had maintenance grants to go to university (as I did myself) - they then pulled the ladder up behind them!

The current government have no idea how normal people live - how could they when 23 of a cabinet of 29 are millionaires and the others attract salaries that the rest of us can only dream of - no one suggests reducing MP's wages yet they get double what your average teacher earns! They very least they could do is pay their own University fees at today's rates!

Maybe it's the Calvinist in me but I am a great believer that education should be free for everyone - the sign surely of a mature democracy. If we can bail out other countries, we can educate our young people to their maximum potential. It's not a case of what we can and can't afford, it is about what is more important to us as a society and, for me, education is a right that I would hate to see eroded further by the finacially privileged.

People have a right to protest and, while not in any way condoning violence, if the authorities had allowed the march to go to Parliament Square as originally intended they could have saved themselves a lot of the problems they subsequently had. The Prince Charles thing, enough already, he wasn't hurt, we, the taxpayer, will pay for his car to be repaired and the protection officers should have had a better handle on what was going on and sent him along in a less conspicuous vehicle when they knew that chaos had descended. I hate to see any kind of violence but people have a right to protest and they were no worse than many previous marches - why is it we blame the protestors when it is young people but when other groups march it is blamed on 'the infiltration of other elements'. TBH it makes a change to see student's standing up for their rights, they have been apathetic about politics for too long!

> I do love it when conspiracy theories come out in situations like this !! <

believe it or not I have read about the government paying groups to infiltrate these type of student protest groups and cause trouble which then backfires on the students ..this kind of thing actually goes on but does sound ubelieveable ...I suppose just like people didnt believe Anna Chapman was in fact a russian spy...

I doubt very much we would see these payments appear in any of the MP's expenses or indeed in the Government spending records so again is it the media therory that is speculating it goes on ? I am not disputing totally that it may go on but show me the proof and I will be more than happy to say this is not a conspiracy theory !

Unfortunately, Ed Miliband had no alternative suggestion when asked the other day - he wouldn't guarantee that the fees hike would be cancelled if/when Labour came to power :) He knows that there just isn't the money to do it. Things are VERY different to when we/our parent's were young. Poor people were really poor because they didn't get the high benefits they get now, the Health Service didn't have the expensive treatments it offers now, less people went to university then so it cost less etc etc. You can't compare then to now :) The previous government bankrupted this country and we (and that means students as well) have to pay.

Personally, I think that far too many people go to university and come out with worthless degrees. There should be far more apprenticeships and specific work-based training. These people are far more use to employers than graduates who think they are the bees-knees just because they have a degree :)
Things are far, far better now than when my OH was at school in the 1950/1960's :) He was brought up in the East End of London, failed his 11 plus, went to a grotty Secondary Modern - but still managed to get to university when it was only the 'few' who went. His parents made real sacrifices to make sure that he stayed at school to 18. No EMA then. He didn't care about 'them and us' - what's that ?? If you want it badly enough, you will do it :)

Daisy

>What they can't see is that if the government don't increase fees, either there will be less places at universities

That's the way to go IMO. A university educatin has been thoroughly devalued by all the Mickey Mouse degrees at tupenny-hapenny 'universities' which did just fine as the local technical college, offering 1 year diplomas. These were changed to 3-year 'degrees' (covering exactly the same ground , just taking 3 times as long, because the students only study 2 days a week instead of 5), thus costing far more for everyone.

Go back to the days of technical qualifications, diplomas, apprenticeships and other on-the-job training, and cut university places drastically.

Its was a topic at our early morning meeting. we are aged from 66 - 25 so a good bench mark age. we all condemed the aggression.

In my day, (clears throat) we studies a few subjects at uni either science based, pratical - librarian ect and Humanities. Then the govt in its wisdom decided we could get a degree in cookery, and others subjects. Where in my year two of us went on to Uni now its a majority and the education IMHO has been dumbed down.

Now we cannot afford (or the Uni's cant afford) to pay for all the students going to uni. Can someone wake up and realise that someone has ALWAYS HAD TO PAY FOR SOME PEOPLES DEGREE. My family through their tax's helped pay my costs and keep me while I was "educated".

Now we as a country are up the proverbial creek and the students themselves will have a debt in their name for their education - payable now, never whatever. Education was never really "free".

Only now we all know it and people do not like it.

But to be violent, for any reason is WRONG and there is no justification. The police have a job to do and if provoked will react - and if the kids werent there there would have been no problem.

If mine were of that age I would have created merry hell to stop them protesting and most parents with kids caught up in that have themselves to blame, if they didnt stop them going they should not join in now to condem the police.

Aggitators will always join in for a fight and this was to be expected.

I feel sorry Camilla and Charles wrong place at the wrong time - disgraceful behaviour towards two old people whoever they were.

> That's the way to go IMO. A university educatin has been thoroughly devalued by all the Mickey Mouse degrees at tupenny-hapenny 'universities' which did just fine as the local technical college, offering 1 year diplomas. These were changed to 3-year 'degrees' (covering exactly the same ground , just taking 3 times as long, because the students only study 2 days a week instead of 5), thus costing far more for everyone.
>
> Go back to the days of technical qualifications, diplomas, apprenticeships and other on-the-job training, and cut university places drastically.

My sentiments exactly!

I agree with JG. And what happens when all these students complete their education - there won't be jobs for the ones with airy-fairy qualifications anyway (or some of the others tbh).  So, no hope of paying back the loan anyway.

I left school at 15 with not an 'O' level to my name - mainly due to a house move / change of school at the wrong time. As a teenager I was saving for a deposit on a flat, I had a car to run so i had 3 jobs which meant working evenings and weekends. No, I'll never be a brain surgeon but I have always worked without a break and in my second job I was a supervisor of 15 people on extremely good money from my 20's-40's.  So, maybe I'm being simple when I wonder if a uni education is necessary?

I think the whole thing was disgraceful yesterday, and it's true the peaceful students will lose support in favour of the yob element. Then I watched soldiers in Scotland clearing the streets of snow and wondered if the demonstrators would get more sympathy if they did that instead of defacing statues, and ramming the police - I especially felt sorry for the horses, I know thats what they are trained for but I found it upsetting.

Totally agree with Daisy and Jeangenie - far too many people are obtaining worthless degrees - and yes, someone has to pay, someone always has paid, but the numbers no longer balance.

There should be more apprenticeships available so that we could have more skilled workers - rather than everyone dashing off to uni because it is so easy to get into now.

> So, maybe I'm being simple when I wonder if a uni education is necessary?

For some jobs it is essential - my son designs drugs and spent over 7 years studying at university. However, my daughter, who has a good degree, has an 'office' type job which 30 years ago would have been filled by an A level student. She 'could' have started as a trainee at 18 and worked her way up combined with study such as the old 'day release', which is precisely what I did as a trainee accountant 35+ years ago :) :)

Daisy

I have no problem subsidising worthwhile degrees, ie doctors, teachers and many others I'm sure that the country needs.  But I do object to funding the worthless ones and being told that going to uni is part of growing up and learning to be independent!

My daughter paid for her own degree training as it wasn't part of the 'accepted' ones.  And with the cost of living in London, her student loan was HUGE when she left.  But she trained for a profession which she knew would earn her money and the loan was paid in the first 5 years of work.  And it didn't stop her from getting a mortgage within 3 months of working.

I see nothing wrong with students funding their own education after 18 years old.  It will sort out those who really want to work and those who want to skive!

Maybe it's the Calvinist in me but I am a great believer that education should be free for everyone

I was under the impression that it was...to a point. Everyone in this country has an education till age 18 if they are prepared to take advantage of it. There are too many "Professional" students around who have never had any intention of working for a living.
Surely if you follow the education system in this country then by 18 you should have a good basic level of skill. Further education is then a matter of choice. We live in a society that is sadly lacking in manual workers, hence why people from less advantaged countries come here and are prepared to do low paid manual jobs as they have a better standard of living than in thier own countries. the "manual" aspect of work force in Uk has been lost. People feel they are owed a living...sorry not true, we have begun to think that we need everything NOW! our expectations of life are such that everyone feels they should be entitled to the very best without actually paying for it..you get what you work for and that includes bettering yourself by working to pay for higher education. Schools in the UK work a half day most pupils are on the street and out of school by 3pm...a working day is a basic 9-5 in my book. We do not teach our young people to work properly, they are taught by society to think that everyone can be a big shot in the city!! Who then is going to empty thier bins?? sweep thier streets? work in thier corner shop?? These are the true working force of our country and the back bone of society.
I abhore the riots, there is a Thug ellement, obvious by the balaclava wearing individuals. If you have a genuine belief in your protest then be prepared to stand up for it and not hide.
Most of the so called uni schollars will never make anything of thier watered down degrees and will never have to pay a penny for thier so called education. My 34 year old daughter juggles a job in a cath lab as a sister and looks after her family of three children and a husband as well as taking her degree in nursing...her education is not free...she pays for it in sheer hard work.
By giving our children a good basic grounding (Availabe to all) in eduation we are setting them up to make educated choices in the direction thier life will take...they have the FREE education and then must expect to pay for aspiring to the "CITY" paid jobs.
Aileen
(As you may see from my grammer/spelling I am a secondary school product...not the brightest but I was educated and have made a good life for myself by sheer hard work and determiation.)

> (As you may see from my grammer/spelling I am a secondary school product

There is no shame in having been to a Secondary school Merlot, they were excellent for non-academic qualifications in their day with the opportunity for late developers to transfer to the Grammar School system.  Lots of talent came out of the 'Secondary Modern schools'.  :)

>There is no shame in having been to a Secondary school Merlot

Just a picky point; unless we left education completely at the age of 11, we all had a 'secondary education', whether that was at a grammar school, secondary modern or comprehensive. There are three main levels of education: Primary, Secondary and Tertiary (also known as 'further education'). Secondary education follows primary school and continues up to A-Level standard - ie, 'Senior School'. Post A-level is Tertiary education.

Just sayin'!

Thanks Oldilocks...I am not ashamed of my education, life is what you are prepared to make of it. I would love to take some of todays youngsters back to the days of my schooling. they would have a shock....my OH was a regular candidate for the cane....and he is a well rounded hard working good mannered man who owns his own buisness and knows the value of hard work. I had my moments but know the value of work and honesty....todays students think life will be presented on a plate for them....
Aileen

Sorry JG not sure of the point you are making?
Aileen

Dherrr! I see Secondary as oposed to Grammar...OK I had a Comprehensive secondary education.....

You said "As you may see from my grammer/spelling I am a secondary school product. My point is that everybody is a 'secondary school product', because that's just another term for 'senior school'.

Think we posted together!!! LOL ;)
Aileen

:-D

>> Dherrr! I see Secondary as oposed to Grammar...

.............and that is what I took it to mean!  :)  :)

I was sickened by what I saw on tv yesterday. I was also angry that the police have their hands tied. Why, when they are being attacked, are they unable to fight back ?. Why, when we could see thugs smashing windows, were the police not allowed use physical force to drag them down ?. I bet a large number of those police officers were no more than student age themselves but they'd decided to get up off their backsides and do something useful.
We hear the odd report of police using too much force but I'm afraid, the people who decided to take their own route yesterday rather than the official planned route did it for one reason only - to cause trouble.

The sight of the people climbing the Cenotaph, swinging from the flags and the ones defacing and urinating on Churchill's statue need locking up. The most insulting thing anybody could do, is to treat those who gave their lives so that we have a free Country with such disrespect. They are the lowest and most disgusting people.

I wish we had like buttons on here.. But well said arched

agree with sue
WELL SAID ARCHED xxxx
Lea :)

Yes agree Arched.

The problem is this country is in deep trouble as are other countries so we ALL have to take a hit.

I think we all need to take a reality check to see what the Government is doing is wide reaching cuts that we all have to accept. If we dont we will all suffer even more than many people are already suffering.

Marion

I hope you don't mind as think this is quite relevant.

So can you explain in simple terms and quantify how it can happen that students in Scotland and Wales are not going to be affected ?

:-)

My eldest son is now in Uni and is as shocked as me as to how students are being portrayed.

For goodness sake Uni students are supposed to be the cream of this country, the ones with the brains, the gifted. They are being portrayed as no different to the thugs at football matches. The people we hang our heads in shame over to the rest of the world. I know many trouble makers may not even be students, but if they are not joining in they are jeering and watching.

To be honest those involved don't deserve to step foot in our Uni's, I hope they chuck the lot of them out and the police should have used cs gas on the lot of them, and locked them up.

>For goodness sake Uni students are supposed to be the cream of this country, the ones with the brains, the gifted.

When the previous Government stated that it's aim was for 50% of children to go to university it was clear that there had to be a lot of the milk as well as the cream ...

I know that has happened in colleges I've been shocked how courses have been found for students with no grades who put no work in at school, I gathered that was for government unemployment figure cover ups, no idea Uni's were taking in people with sub-standard grades too.

I know many of us parents save, re-mortgage, and work hard to put our children through Uni to keep student debt at bay. And our children work part time, this is what we have done, we've put money aside as Americans do for college, I don't think it is such a bad thing. For gifted children from low income families there have always been grants, if no longer available as this country is struggling, maybe low income families with gifted children could apply for a specially set up lottery grant or something? The 'milk' shouldn't be in our Uni's only those with the grades to show intelligence and hard work.

I have a friend with twin boys both grade A students there is no way she can afford to send both to Uni, her and her husband earn just above the low income cut off so will get no support, she was planning on her and her husband having a pretend break up so that the government would hep with costs. Haven't made my mind up about the rights and wrongs of that, but I guess they are doing what feels right or were, probably won't go to plan now, unless the government are still going to support those with low income.

On my local news today (Yorks/Lincs) two seventeen year old girls had taken a coach down to London with the full intention of participating in a peaceful protest. However they were kettled in by the police force and as time got late they became anxious about missing their coach home. Despite desperate pleas with the police to let them out of the cordon and becoming more and more upset the police didn't want to know then began to hit the girls with their batons. As a mum myself to a teenage son with special needs i find this behaviour totally deplorable and unacceptable. There were several breakaway groups hell bent on causing trouble but this does not represent the majority of the students who took part.
Far too often police do not wear their I.D. numbers and very rarely be held accountable for being heavy handed without just cause.
Personally i found ITV news to be anti students and the BBC to withold certain facts about the days events.
Looking back over the last twelve months there have been a few incidents of the police being heavy handed during protests in London. The newspaper seller who took no part in a protest was knocked to the ground and subsequently died is just one example.
Let Nick Clegg pay for the damage he's the biggest trouble maker round here. He made a promise, earnt thousands of votes for it and then broke his promise! What a tyrant!

> the police should have used cs gas on the lot of them, and locked them up.

..........or water cannons. 

I feel for your son Carrington and any other decent young person determined to study hard. Yes, I expect the eye specialist who examined me today to have proper qualifications and the lady who did my scan recently to be well up in the medical field and I thank goodness they are, but someone in our family is at a 'proper university' studying 'ancient greek' (where's that going to get them?) and the parent had the nerve to diss another youngster in the family who 'only' went to college but has a decent job with and gets to travel with it.  Sheer snobbery.

There are too many "Professional" students around who have never had any intention of working for a living.

Eh? Who do you think carries out medical research, etc? It's the 'serial students' assigned to university teams--they learn and we benefit. If I could choose where to target my taxes I'd say that's a good investment--better than the MoD any day.

someone in our family is at a 'proper university' studying 'ancient greek' (where's that going to get them?)

Hmmm...I remember my father saying much the same to me when I told him I was going to study archaeology. Why should people only study the things that 'pay?' You'll end up with the same nonsense as in the US where students sign up to courses because they know they can pay back their loan. I can think of a couple I know who had the grades and money to go on to medical school but the thought of having them at my sickbed would give me the horrors.

By the time my son completes his 7 year course (4 years of study, one year in practice, then 2 more years of study) he will be on a pittance, but I guess we need architects and he is very determined to make it. I'll do what I can to help, which is very little, and he will leave with a debt bigger than my mortgage. Choice in education or the lack of it should not be determined by chance circumstances of birth or income.

Money invested in Education will always be money well spent in my book...
BUT

Charlie Gilmour - The young man who swung from the flag on the Cenotaph is a History student and in his 'appology' he claimed he had no idea it was the Cenotaph.
If this is the product of what I thought was money well spent, well *deep sigh*
( and don't even get me started on them burning down the Christmas tree in Trafalgar that my Country gifts each year in thanks for help given during the bitter Occuaption of Norway)

But on a happier note I have to say after a looong day spent in tactical briefings I was heartened when I eventually got on the tube to go home, that the Student Doctors of St.Barts, shivering in their Scrubs had elected to spend the day collecting money for the Macmillen Cancer Nurses instead. (First time I have ever seen every single person in a tube carriage dig deep in their pockets)

Every protest has its agitators and anarchists, but those students who are not but have acted so, should be deeply ashamed and at the very least (this is for you Charlie Gilmour) have the post event courage not to lie! (didn't know it was the Cenotaph... indeed!?)

To be honest I don't think many students have a clue what the proposed policy involves. They've jumped on the bandwagon - if they had the common sense to look at the facts they might feel differently.

If they feel hard done by and lied to by politicians then how can violence, aggression and insults to the brave men and women who died for them be the way to retaliate ?.

My Mum's Dad died in WW11 in 1942 when she was a young child. At 14 she was removed from school where believe it or not she started work in a high street bank (I'm sure one of the youngest ever). When he was 15 her younger brother was also removed from school and went to work full time. The reason being - my Nan's war widow's pension was so low she couldn't afford the rent.... even she held three small jobs at the same time to keep the three of them together.

That's why I feel nothing but disgust for the scum who attacked the memory of the war dead.

Maybe I sound a bit over dramatic but my lovely Mum is now 81 and widowed. She worked all her life, just manages to get by on her pension - but has so much dignity and never asks for a penny. She lived through horrendous times during the war (she was brought up in London) and was an evacuee.
For people who still vividly remember that terrible time to have to sit and watch children and young adults behave like they did yesterday.........they must think their loss was for nothing.