Hello all again.  If my bitch was pregnant from 1st mating 63 days was 1/12 2nd mating 3/12.  I've not left her side just incase, she does keep going and lying in an obstructed corner to be on her own and isnt playful with the other dogs, she has lost the hair aon her under carriage and is still producing milk, She isnt as big as last time if anything she looks skinny but she has been ill and will hardly eat.  I have tried feeling for pups but her teets are that full of milk her stomach just seems hard all the way down no obvious lumps but i dont really know what i'm looking for.  My question is I assume she isnt pregnant if so she is 3 days over from her last mating she did go 4 days last time and had 11 pups naturally. So do i start treating it as a phantom and get her medication for her milk etc or carry on waiting?  I didint know whether to take her for a another scan but vet initail said it was pointless cause if they are hiding behind her ribcage it only takes 20 mins to go into birth canal.  you would think a vet would be able to feel and see if she is pregnant but they just wont commit to a def yes or no keep saying it is hard with her being a giant breed,  its not fair on my girl if she isnt i can get started on tests etc to see why she keeps being sick.

 

An x-ray would give you an unequivocal answer and would do no harm this late on, in fact in the USA many breeders x-ray at 6 weeks to ascertain numbers expected.

Do they need ga or any sedative for an xray?

Can you take her back to the scanner.

It sounds like a pregnancy, if its not i feel for you and your girl with such a bad phantom and think promt treatment is needed.

Can you feel any movement or 'lumps'.

I think you might be able to hold her?  As Brainless said it might be the onlu way, if she is pregneant and you think she's over her date its not a good idea to leave her.  its a tough one to call and going to cost one way or the other.

Good luck xx

At this stage surely a vet could use a stethoscope to hear heartbeats?   and if nothing, an x-ray would soon put you in the picture.

Would think for confirming pups you could just hold her steady?

They would use sandbags

They would use sandbags .....:( couldnt put my girl though that. but id try and get her scaned again ,surely at this stage 1 or to pups would of come down now? plus heart beats should be herd surley. when my girl had 3 i could see them plus could ear the hearts beating...have you tried to listern? xx

hi,
I just wanted to say to be really careful about giving a bitch medication for a phantom unless you are 110% sure it's not a pregnancy. I seem to remember a recent thread by someone on here who's had just that situation and had very sick puppies and had to hand rear.
even if it is a phantom then I would have thought that if you keep a careful eye out for mastitis then the milk should disappear naturally anyhow.
good luck

Did you do any premate type tests to establish when she actually ovulated?  Even on her 2nd mating, if she hadn't yet ovulated then the due date would be later than you estimate.  Having said that if she is over due then you need to consider that if there is only a single pup she may not be about to go into labour herself. 

Our vets will not allow anyone into the x-ray room regardless of circumstances.  H&S and all that.  Other vets may be the same.

Hope all works out well for you and your girl.

Sandbags?? Whats that all about?  I did have premate test done but not the idexx the 1 where they look at the colour, ive now been told it is quite unrealiable as different vets read it differently and to be honest i was told she was at 8 and to take her the following day when i q it as my breeder  thought it needed to be late teens the vet said the pack states 8-10 ready to ovulate?  I really really dont think she is pregnent as something would of shown on a scan surely, but i am concered given her any treatment just incase after reading the other thread on here.  I can't hear any heatbeats just her tummy rumbling as it is very noisy has been since the beginining when she became ill.

But good news i have called the vet again this morning told the receptionist i want her at least scanned and checkover today otherwise i'm a going to another vets, i'm just waiting for a call back, .....I'm just so annoyed they wont do anything and keep fobbing me off i feel like just going and sitting there till they see me.  But then everytime i do get to see 1 of them they wont commit either way so we can get on with treatent for her sickness. i know they are covering their own backs but i would of thought if she was then the pups would be dead by now and that will harm my girl. And why is it the senior partner the only decent vet there is always on bloody holiday when i need him, i feel like i'm hitting my head against a brick wall all i want is my little girl better again and they dont seem that bothered.  Unless i am just panicking for no reason but i know my dogs and  i know she isnt right, common sense says a dog can't have sickness and diarohea for 9 weeks and losing weight (pregnant or not) and be healthy its not fair on her :(  (Rant over)

I can't believe vets sometimes.  mine will fit me in if i say its urgent.

I would consider changing vets to help your girl.  Sounds like she needs someone who cares about animals.

i think sometimes heartbeats can be hard to pick up if you're not used to them, could be wrong of course.

Hope you get an appointment today for your girls sake.

What area are in?

I think you need x-rays too, a light sedative should be all that is needed really. They use sand bags to keep them in possition. My vet lets me in the room untill the button is pressed then we leave and hide round the door for 3 seconds and back in. A scan may not pick up one pup high under the ribs but an x-ray should do.
I cannot believe the amount of people who have problems getting an appointment. If I ring my vet they will always get me in if I ask. (I spend a fortune there!) Tell them you need an urgent appointment and if they dilly dally then find another vet. After all you are employing them not the other way round and they should respect your knowledge of your dog. Be a little more assertive and ask why they will not see her, tell them you are worried and insist on an appointment, Vets are only people not Gods. Please keep pushing and get an answer, but as some have said do not let them fob you off with drugs for a phantom untill they are 100% sure she is not in welp. If you are not happy with their diagnosis then seek a second opinion as son as possible. She is your dog and you are paying for her treatment so make sure you get to the bottom of it today.
Good luck.
Aileen

It isn't not being able to get an appointment it's the vet saying no need for 1 yet nothing they can do, we need to leave it longer everytime i q them on something i.e scans they fob me off ( or not I dont really know)....and i totally agree with the posts saying I AM PAYING THEM so why are they refusing too see me.  You would think if they dont care and just see pound signs they would have me straight in as they no i pay anything to keep my dogs well and have spent thousands with them, just on my girl in the last 9 weeks ive spent just over £900! I just want a yes/no and get on with her treatment. I have had enough today I am giving them till 4 if not i'm booked in at another vets, which i don't really want to do as the other vets round here only refer you to them as specialists in other areas with my other dogs !!!

any news on the scan/x.ray yet?
hope you get it sorted very soon.

At this stage I would be demanding an x-ray.  

Don't want to worry you but I know of someone with a medium/large breed with just the same query - pregnant or not and overdue if pregnant.  Bitch was fine, not sick etc.  Scan showed nothing and vets quite happy to wait, but x-ray showed one pup and caesar needed asap.

You know your bitch better than the vet and if you think there's something amiss they should listen.

Hope you get it sorted soon, you must be frantic with worry.

i do hope your girl is ok? any news yet? xx

In the past I have phoned the vets and said I am bringing my bitch in now she needs to be seen and just turned up at the surgery. ;-) You may have to do this. Ok, you may be charged for an emergency consultation, but at least your mind will be at rest.

Hi all,  I think the threat of moving worked, which you shouldnt have to resort to!!  But I went last nite I seen a locom he had a good feel of her said he couldn't feel anything, tried to listen but as said before her stomach just sings to you and typical yesterday it was having a rite old rumble. He scanned her and again nothing, he is 95% she isn't pregnant, he said the xray machine there is like a big scanner the dog goes in so needs full sedation which he is reluctant to do as he feels it unnecessary, he did however say she could be producing milk and having a phantom because a pup (16month old) from her last litter has come back to me???? I don't know how true this is.  He seemed alot more caring and reassuring told me to take all toys away stop her nesting, the milk should hopefully start to clear up within next week if not can give some medication to dry it up, although he doesnt want to give it just incase he really thinks she is having a phantom as so far overdue, nothing on the scans etc and no signs of distress.  He gave me some zantac liquid, he said thats ok in pregnancy - to see if it sorts her belly, told me to keep with her normal food little and often (which is all well and good but she won't eat it) as change may may give her the runs, did say it'll take about 7-10 days to work fully if it is acid tummy and if not they will explore further by which time they'll be 100% she isnt pregnant.  When i queried leaving her now (as somone has been with her 24 hrs just incase) he was still a bit vague but think that is covering his back again.  He gave me his mobile number he is only there for another 2 weeks but said if i am concerned day or nite to call him or if i decide i def want an xray to call him.  I feel a bit more relaxed do you think ive done the rite thing? As for the food she has wellbeloved chic rice and a small tin of butchers twice a day.  She has always had this, he has said to cut out the tin and jsut use the complete food but she wont eat it unless i put tin in ir or tripe or mince.  Shall i just carry on doing that as i know those 3 dont give her the runs?

And white lilly is your girl expecting?? 

Dill did your friends bitch look pregnant or just act pregnant? My girl has lost weight and only looks pregnant because she has lost hair round her nips and is producing milk, she is acting i.e nesting loving and won't lie on her tummy always to the side. But has showns no signs of labour panting contractions etc. If it was for the signs above i would say she isnt as she has been so poorly don't think she would of taken.  I really don't want an xray if its full sedation because of the unnecessary risks.

I think I'd go for the x-ray.  If there is is a pup viable or not it can make her ill.

How far over could she be now?

yes she is orangedog so sorry your girl and you are going though this :( ((hugs)) xx

The bitch didn't look pregnant at all, vet palpitated and said no pups, but she had milk.   She had a very brief period of being restless on her due date, but nothing like labour, no panting or digging - but the I've never had a bitch do the 'panting thing';)  - but she had been 'sicky' throughout and more clingy.   Vet said because of only one pup the hormones to start labour and keep it going weren't high enough.   A very large pup showed only on x-ray and caesar done as emergency, the bitch was at risk by then too although she still seemed fine.  Sadly pup didn't survive longer than being born and bitch had to be speyed.  Had they done an earlier ceasar the pup might have been saved.  This was a breed known for easy natural whelping too :(

Sorry can't give a more positive sounding message :(   Personally I'd be insisting on an x-ray, as has been said, the bitch is at risk if there is a pup and it isn't born.