I'm a bit confused and concerned and after some advice.  We have a 5 month old American Staffie cross male puppy (15kgs) that we've had since for 2 months and in the past 2 weeks he's gotten a bit wobbly on his back legs.  It started off in his right back leg, he didn't seem very steady on it sometimes when he was walking but tonight it's both back legs.  He's not in any pain when he's walking and there's no reaction when you manipulate his legs, he's just a bit wobbly and isn't 100% steady on them.  It's not all the time and there's no way of predicting when he's going to be like this.

Physically he's fine (apart from his back legs), he eats well (he's a hoover!) and is fed on large breed puppy food (Purina Pro-Plan) and he's walked for 30-40 mins twice a day around the village.  It's not a large distance but it takes me a while as I walk him with out other dog (Papillon) and every wants to stop to pat him as he's got cute ears!

We haven't noticed Tully Bear falling off anything (he likes to lie on the sofa) and he's not slipped on the wooden floors, that we know of (someone is at home pretty much all day) so I don't think it's an injury but he does run around like a lunatic during his mad puppy half hour of a night time.

I'm reluctant to get him xrayed (if he was in pain then I would straight away) as it doesn't seem to be troubling him and he's his normal happy, slobbery self but will if people think I should.

Any ideas?

Probably not, but just a thought, he hasn't had a tick on him has he?
I guess if he had, it would progressively get worse, rather than be sporadic...
I'd still perhaps have him to the vet... poor love

I've searched him for a tick and there's nothing there.

It's an odd one, he's just woken up from a snooze and he was a bit wobbly when he first started walking but now he's bounding around the room (typically he's just about to go to bed for the night!) but earlier he was quite unsteady for a good 10 mins.

Keeps us on our toes does Tully Bear.

hmmm... strange one... I'd still get him vet checked, just in case.  He certainly doesn't sound quite right, poor thing.

We had a dog come into the shelter last week.  No tick present, owner couldn't understand why the wobbly back end, dog was searched from head to toe, where it was discovered (or should I say the remains of) a tick on the dogs lip.  Tick serum administered, dog now ok - thankfully.
Don't know if the tick didn't get a proper 'hold' or what happened, but thankfully, the dog was treated before the paralysis got hold too.

Any head tilting that you've noticed?  Head shaking?

Are his hips ok?

Just trying to think of things that could cause the wobbliness....

> I'm reluctant to get him xrayed (if he was in pain then I would straight away) as it doesn't seem to be troubling him and he's his normal happy, slobbery self but will if people think I should.
>

He should be checked by a vet. It could be down to a number of things, from mild (ie un-even growth, easily recitified with a diet change) to more severe (Wobblers).

one hour to 80 minutes walking seems a lot for a 5 month old puppy. If there's something going on I wouldn't exercise him at all until you knew what it is. It's difficult to know with some breeds if they have any pain as they are very stoic. Get your vet to give him a thorough going over to make sure.

Un-steady back legs is not normal in a pup and you may not know if there is pain or not, this is not right and a visit to the vet is called for. Agree that you are walking him for too long two trips a day of 10 to 15 minutes. Do you know what cross he is, I suppose there may be a problem with the bone growth if the make-up of this dog is diverse.

Having had a dog with wobblers 2 years ago where symptoms began around 4-5 months of age i would definately be getting him checked out.

Hopefully its nothing serious but its definately not normal so needs looking at

Good luck

I agree with the advice that says have him checked by a Vet, but in the past I had a young Irish Setter that had very similar symptoms at the same age. His turned out to be slipping patellas. The Vet explained that during a growth spurt the bones had grown in a spiral sort of pattern which caused the patellas to slip off the groove.

Regards, Dawn R.

>but earlier he was quite unsteady for a good 10 mins.

I'd be terribly worried about this, do let us know how you get on at the vets.  In the meantime try and keep a diary to show exactly when it occurs, for how long, and what he was doing immediately prior to the episode, and immediately after it stops.

This may give your vet some good clues. Hope it's nothing serious xx

Thanks everyone - will get him into the vets asap.

With the walking - although we're out of the house for 30-40mins at a time we're not walking for that long, as I said I walk him with a papillon so we're stopping every few minutes so people can coo over the paps ears (and Tully Bear likes to sniff every blade of grass we walk past!).  If I walk him by himself we're back home in 20 mins.

I don't know what he's crossed with (he's from the RSPCA) but he's def an American Staff cross, we met his litter brother at puppy classes and whereas Tully Bear is black/blue/brindle Anthrax was all white with one brindle ear and a completely different head shape.  I guess I'd have to have him DNA tested to try and identify exactly what he's crossed with (might do that for his birthday present!).

He's bounding around quite happily this morning, he spent the night sleeping on my 15 year old sons bed and is full of the joys of spring.  Can just see it now - taking him to the vet because he's off his back legs every so often yet he'll be full of it.  There I'll be trying to explain how he gets unsteady and wobbles a bit yet he'll be leaping around all over the place like nothings wrong!

There's no head shaking or anything like that and he's not showing any signs of being miserable but I'll def get him to the vets today.

Anthrax ? thats unusual choice of name !

Could you video him doing it so the vet can see what is happening?

This puppy is being walked far too much!  How anyone can say "he's not in pain" is beyond me.  We all know how stoical dogs are.  I am so surprised that this pup, who only needs a 10 minute walk each way i.e. 20 minutes total for the whole day is being walked four times more than he should be.

I don't know about the breeds genetics, but there have been soem bully coss lines in the UK that have developed Wobblers http://www.vetinfo.com/wobblers-syndrome-in-dogs.html, which is msot often foudn in Great Danes and Dobermanns.

We're back from the vets and still none the wiser.  The vet is happy with his condition, weight and general health.  She manipulated both rear legs and couldn't find anything wrong with either hip or knee joint and his spine isn't giving any cause for concern.  Obviously the only way to know for sure is an x-ray but like me she's reluctant to xray an otherwise healthy puppy.

I mentioned the level of exercise he gets and she's more than happy with it - she knows the village well and the route we take and was surprised it takes us so long to walk it but as I've said twice now on here it's because I walk him with a crowd drawing Papillon and Tully Bear likes to sniff every blade of grass we come to.  Then of course there's the butchers shop we walk past that always has him drooling and trying to work out how to get through the plastic vertical blind on the door!

He did have a bit of a wobble when we were there and she wants us to do a full food / exercise / wobble diary for the next 2 weeks to try and see if there's any pattern to him.  She also wants me to consider DNA testing him to identify what breed mix he is then we can see if there's anything in the breed history that might be a clue.  She's confident it's not Wobblers as he's not showing the right symptoms but has taken some blood tests to make sure there's nothing underlying anywhere.  She thinks it's entirely possible that he bounced and landed wrong and knocked himself so she wants to see if he improves any over the next fortnight.

He was a complete star at the vets as always and now weighs in at 15.9kgs *gasp*  He's going to be a big boy!

> Obviously the only way to know for sure is an x-ray but like me she's reluctant to xray an otherwise healthy puppy.

I don't understand the logic with this. As an xray is the best choice for determining/ruling out a problem then I would have thought it would be the first choice, not a last resort.
When my pup developed a limp, the fact that the rest of his health was fine was not a reson to rule-out xrays to diagnose a 'mechanical' problem and the fact he was otherwise heathy meant there was no good reson not to xray him.

> gasp*  He's going to be a big boy!

All the more reason why it's in his best interest to get to the bottom of his walking problem. He is going to need strong legs to carry a big body and the sooner you know whats wrong with him, the sooner the corret treatment can begin.

> Obviously the only way to know for sure is an x-ray but like me she's reluctant to xray an otherwise healthy puppy.



She doesn't want to put him under an anaesthetic until she knows more about his wobbly sessions as she feels the risk of the anaesthetic outweighs any immediate gain.  She had a good feel of his hips/spine and knees yesterday and can't find and mechanical reason for any problems so she wants to have a much wider picture of what's happening before she puts him under.  He's obviously not in any pain as he didn't even flinch when she touched him and he's a big baby so would cry if you hurt him at all and she's happy to wait another 2 weeks.

Up to you but i'd like to rule out one way or another whats going on with an x-ray. Can you not ask for your boy to be sedated? I'd prefer this tbh than GA for an x-ray..

In what way is he wobbly? can you elaborate at all?
I read on my breed forums from time to time and this often comes up in new owners where they say they don't look steady on their feet? i wonder if hes going to be a big dog its possibly just the way hes growing and its just a stage where his body weight is heavy and his legs lack the muscle tone to hold him thus appearing a bit 'wobbly'?
All mine have appeared 'wobbly' at some stage when they've had a growth spurt and where their legs are long and they can sometimes be a little uncoordinated.

Just a thought.

> She doesn't want to put him under an anaesthetic until she knows more about his wobbly sessions as she feels the risk of the anaesthetic outweighs any immediate gain.

Ahh. that makes sense.
I do hope you get to the bottom of this soon, it must be a worry :(

In what way is he wobbly? can you elaborate at all?
I read on my breed forums from time to time and this often comes up in new owners where they say they don't look steady on their feet? i wonder if hes going to be a big dog its possibly just the way hes growing and its just a stage where his body weight is heavy and his legs lack the muscle tone to hold him thus appearing a bit 'wobbly'?
All mine have appeared 'wobbly' at some stage when they've had a growth spurt and where their legs are long and they can sometimes be a little uncoordinated.

He's growing really quickly - we have to let his harness out between 2 and 2.5 inches each week and he's now too big for me to pick up and put in the car.  It's really hard to describe what sort of wobbly he is, he seems very unsteady on his back legs when he tries to start walking - he doesn't wobble mid walk, it's more when he's first up on his legs and can't work out where to put his feet.  Also when he's been running around and then starts walking - it's as if the change in pace confuses him.

He spent most of today in and out of the pool paddling around and is now splatted on my bed snoring (and farting!) with his head on my pillow drooling everywhere!  He's such a good boy, very placid (and a bit stupid) with a great temperament - if we can get to the bottom of his wobbly legs I won't have any worries about him at all.

> She thinks it's entirely possible that he bounced and landed wrong and knocked himself so she wants to see if he improves any over the next fortnight.
>

That would mean he'd injured himself, in which case the wobblyness would be a result of pain/discomfort, so a course of anti-inflamatories would show an imediate improvement. This is usually the case in suspected leg injuries.
It just seems a little strange to suggest the cause as a fall injury, but not give any treatment (not even rest) only observe and keep a food/wobble diary.

> She also wants me to consider DNA testing him to identify what breed mix he is then we can see if there's anything in the breed history that might be a clue.

In all my years with mogrels and a cross breed, not once did the vet ever suggest DNA testing to find out the breeds behind them. Are you sure she didn't just suggest a DNA test, and you assumend is was to check for breed? Or did she actually say it would be to check for breed?

Does he wobble from his hocks or is it further up?  I still think a video would give the vet more of an idea as by the very nature of Am Staff's and their crosses they will not show pain/discomfort.

> I still think a video would give the vet more of an idea as by the very nature of Am Staff's and their crosses they will not show pain/discomfort.

This is what I had to do when my Mastiff pup developed a limp. He was awfull at home and even had a job to get up from being laid down, but in the vets the limp was hardly noticable and he never gave any pain response when being examined. So I took some video footage at home to show the vet. It was really helpfull and proved to the vet I wasn't being over-dramatic!

If you trust your vet and your own instinct then i personally wouldn't xray at the moment but thats just me, if i remember right at that age ours were just starting to move with some drive as the muscle tone was improving and the bunny hopping was much less (if not gone) and they stopped being so clumsy. If at any point you feel your boy is going from wobbly to downright clumsy, tripping over his feet, dragging his feet or walking on tiptoe etc then i'd think there was a major cause for concern.
If you can't video it for your vet when you return ask the vet to go outside and watch you move your boy, in a small examination room its not possible to see the movement of the dog and often thats the telltail sign when manipulation often fails as others have said dogs can hide discomfort and often with wobblers for instance discomfort won't be apparent anyway.

My young girl had a problem with one of her back legs 3 months agol  Vet wanted to x-ray as she thought it was her hips.  Had her put on pain killers and after a week she was able to weight bear.  Had her hips scored and they are a total of 8.  We now think she'd caught her leg in the cage whilst asleep at the night time.

The vet is 99% certain its not an injury and that its not a serious problem, but there is always the chance she's wrong - hence the comment about it possibly being a something he's done when he's bounced and landed wrong.  We agreed that if there was no improvement, or I thought he was getting worse, or appeared to be in some sort of pain then it'd be straight into the vets for an xray.

With the DNA test - she's very interested in breed specific behaviour, and although Tully shows a lot of Am Staff traits its obvious he's crossed with something.  The vet said about DNA testing to identify the breeds in his DNA (his mother died when he was 3 weeks old just after they'd been seized by the RSPCA) which is something I'd be interested in knowing.  We were also told not to be surprised when he comes back as a Pit Bull cross, not an American Staffie cross as the RSPCA here won't rehome any puppies that are advertised as Pit Bull crosses due to the sort of owner they attract.

We had him out in the carpark when I took him to see her so she got to see him having a good sniff and a wander (took ages to get anywhere as he does like to sniff and chat to people on the way past).  We learnt a long time ago the only way to get him to move with any form of determination is to tell him we're "going to Maccas"!  Not that we feed him McDonalds but he does like to lick the ice cream sundae containers after we've eaten them.

He definitely doesn't walk with a limp, nor is he dragging his feet or walking on tiptoes so the vet and I are happy to monitor and see how he goes.  So far it's when he changes pace or goes from laying down to walking (without standing still for any length of time) that he wobbles.

I'm not to confident about those DNA tests, some of the things that they come up with for a dog are amazing.

Well if you're happy and you trust your vet then i'd leave things as they are and just monitor him you know your dog best afterall we can't see him so can't comment informatively. Good luck :)

Just a thought.. there is a condition that can affect terrrier type breeds (among others) that is called Spinocerebellar Ataxia which is late on-set - not showing signs until the pup is often beyond 6 months old.  Many vets have never come across it and it looks like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGicpQLt6M.  Might be worth a look so you can eliminate the possibility if not...

All the best, kay

Thankfully Tully's problem is nothing like that poor little man.

Thanks for the suggestion though - I had no idea that condition even existed and it's good to be able to rule something out.