A bit of an hypothetical question. I am studing to do my Agility Judges exam and just noticed in the rules, if a dog gets placed 3rd or above in a agility champ class, that dog then gets entered into the stud book. Now does this mean because said dog is the stud book due to agility placing.  Can said dog now enter Crufts as a show dog, but never actually attended a dog show?

As long as the dog is otherwise eligible i.e. it's a pedigree dog registered on the breed register and not the activity register, then yes.

mmmm..interesting *strokes chin*

But it's much easier to qualify a dog in a breed class at a champ show than it is to get a 1st-3rd in an agility champ class :-D

Stud book numbers are not restricted to those dogs who win certain classes in the breed ring! Which is just as well if you consider what the objective of the stud book is I would have thought! And even neutered dogs gain stud book qualifications.  Gaining a stud book number by dint of performance rather than just good looks is something to be savoured I would have thought!

The following are ways other than breed showing of gaining a stud book number:

Dogs winning First, Second, Third or Fourth awards, Diplomas of Merit or Certificates of Merit at Field Trials held under Kennel Club Field Trial Regulations.

Winners of Prizes or Qualifying Certificates in TD or PD Stakes at Championship Working Trials held under Kennel Club Working Trial Regulations.

Winners of Prizes or Qualifying Certificates in the Senior Stake for Bloodhounds at Championship Working Trials held under Kennel Club Working Trial Regulations.

Winners of First, Second or Third Prizes in Championship Class "C", at Championship Obedience Classes.

Winners of First, Second or Third Prizes in Championship Agility Class at Championship gility Shows.

And yes, to answer your question your dog is thus eligible for Crufts despite never having met the breed show requirements ie by winning a certain class at a Championship Show.

Kayenine, depends on the breed!

> Kayenine, depends on the breed!

I can't think of any breed where it would be easier to win 1st-3rd in a champ agility class than a breed class.

I agree, im not sure how many dogs are usually in a champ agility class but I imagine there is about 40 -  50 ? you dont see that many at breed shows :)

The dog has to first get to grade 5 on either points or wins - winning up to grade 5 is difficult, but it can be done on points if you have a very consistent dog but that would take a few years. Then you have to win a grade 5 class - probably at least 50 - 100 dogs in the class for large dogs (over 17 inches), depending where in the country you are. Then once in grade 6 you have to win 4 classes of which 2 must be agility as opposed to jumping - again there are probably 100 - 200 dogs in each one. Once you have your 4 wins you're eligible for grade 7 which includes the Champ classes.
Champ classes for large dogs probably have 50 - 100 dogs in them, maybe more in the south, you have a jumping class and an agility class, and the top 20 dogs across those 2 parts qualify for the final. So you need to have a very consistent dog just to reach the final, and by that level the classes are extremely difficult.

It's easier for small and medium to get to grade 7 as the classes are smaller, but once there the competition is tough.

It takes numerous runs at agility shows to get as far as a stud book number.

Realistically, for those people who spend every weekend attending agility shows with the ultimate aim of competing in champ classes, the breed rings at Crufts are the last thing on their minds! There are currently 2 dogs with agility stud book numbers in my breed - their owner has no interest in competing in the breed ring, even at Crufts.

To qualify in a breed class - if your breed has fairly large classes (although still far smaller than an average agility class) and you're desperate to qualify - go where the classes are small (Belfast/Edinburgh), or enter a show where a 'friend' is judging (don't tell me it doesn't happen ;-) ). One show - dog is qualified.

lol we cant even get out of grade 1 ........ thats what you get for running a setter in agility though, not enough speed !!!

What breed do you have kayenine ?

Totally agree about going to scotland for your stud book no. there are a few in our breed who got them that way, there is no way they would have got them any other way.

> What breed do you have kayenine ?
>
>

I have Tollers - currently running just my 4 year old in large grade 3 but could move up to grade 4 on points if I wanted to (holding out for the win though - she's had 2 2nds!!). My 9 year old is semi retired (he won out of the old starter class) and I have a 12 month old who hopefully will start competing next year. I've got no chance of reaching grade 7 with any of them though!

ive seen some really fast tollers, I expect ive seen yours :)

We could move up to grade 2 on points but im just about to bring my Kelpie out so I would like him to start in grade 1.

Imean that there are some breeds at shows where there are 40 or so in a class so not that easy for some to get a stud book no. there. 

40, at a champ show ? which breed is that, my breed is popular but the most we get is maybe 20-30 but thats usually Crufts.

> Imean that there are some breeds at shows where there are 40 or so in a class so not that easy for some to get a stud book no. there. 

It may not be easy but it's still easier to get 1st-3rd out of 40 than it is to get 1st out of 200 several times and then get 1st-3rd in a champ final. Getting an agility stud book number is not an 'easy' route to Crufts.

> 40, at a champ show ? which breed is that, my breed is popular but the most we get is maybe 20-30 but thats usually Crufts.

Even we get 20-30 in a class at Crufts and we don't even have tickets! :-D

In Cavaliers we can get that many in the younger bitch classes in particular. When Henry won his CC and BOB it was out of 250 dogs, and it's often more than that. I think Crufts can be over 400!!

>40, at a champ show ? which breed is that, my breed is popular but the most we get is maybe 20-30 but thats usually Crufts.

Was thinking of more the toy breeds and more popular breeds although I don't show much these days but in some breeds you frequently got classes or around 30