Hello Champdoggers!

Firstly, sorry if this is in the wrong place...

I'm interested to know peoples views on the payment of deposits for securing a puppy.
I posted this question on an american forum and found that the majority of breeders there seemed to routinely ask for deposits although there was a variety of differing policies on, at what point deposits would be paid (pre mating, pre whelping, post whelping) and under what circumstances, if at all, a deposit would be returned etc.

So what are peoples views on it here, from both a buyers and a breeders point of view?

We have never had to pay a deposit for any of our 4 dogs, and I would personally probably avoid a breeder who did ask for deposits.

When we breed our first litter next year we will not be asking for deposits. 

Deposits just feel a bit commercial to me.  Especially when so many adverts in the local rag say "deposit secures" like they are selling a car or something, and the first to put their money down, gets the goods!

Does it vary from breed to breed?

Are (and please don't take this the wrong way - I just couldn't think of another way of putting it) more 'prolific' breeders more likely to ask for deposits?

Are more 'successful' (show or working) breeders more likely to?

If so, why is that?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I'd never take a deposit as I want the buyer to be able to change their mind at any time and more importantly I want to be able to change MY mind at any time. I've never been asked for one either. I don't agree that if you take just a small deposit people won't mind losing it -some people will do anything for even a tenner and I don't want anyone to feel obliged to buy MY pup just because they have put some money down on it. I hate the phrase "Deposit secures" -really shouts "Anyone with money can buy, no questions asked!"

As both a breeder and a buyer I would never ask for nor pay a deposit. So many things can change between a buyer being allowed a puppy and the time for it to leave home (a deposit on an unborn puppy is ludicrous!) that it's best that both parties are free to change their minds for whatever reason, and not feel obliged that the sale should go through.

As only ever a buyer, I would rather put down a deposit on the pup I had chosen.  In fact I would probably walk away if I couldnt.  You wouldnt have time to have built up that much trust with a breeder and I would rather have a deposit in place so that my breeder knew I was genuine about having a pup and that they wouldnt (in theory) sell your pup to someone else.

Hmmm...you see I wouldn't sell a pup to or buy a pup from anyone who I HADN'T had time to build up a relationship with. 

As a buyer I wouldn't necessarily just expect to get whatever pup I want (if any), or as a breeder I wouldn't just let people pick 'their pup'.  For us it's about making sure that the right pup goes to the right homes, depending on the pups working / show potential and temperament and on the potential new owners experience, circumstances and intentions for the pup.

Our puppy list is growing now and we are not breeding until next summer.  The people on that list so far are very well known to us and any new ones will be only added to the list once we have got to know them, and them us.  No one will know what pup (if any) they will get until they are 6-7 even 8 weeks old.  Obviously there is an element of choice on the part of the new owner but it'll be a matching exercise for me and my husband to work out as the weeks go by.  Everyone on the list will be fully aware of how the list will operate and that there will be no guarantees whatsoever.  If people don't want to stay with us if they don't like how we plan to do things, then they can go elsewhere.  We would rather have people who want one of our babies, not just any pup that comes along.

Of course I should say that once pups are born and a couple of weeks old, we will be able to let people know if it is unlikely to be one for them (unless someone else changes their mind.)

As the first two replies say, I would hate to think that anyone would feel obliged to have a puppy just because they'd paid a deposit, and I'd hate to think that we couldn't change our minds about a potential owner at any stage is something changes.

I once agreed to sell somebody a pup, but as the weeks went by and I had more and more contact with this person I realised I was not happy about them having a puppy. As I had not taken a deposit I was able to say no. The person then managed to get a pup elsewhere which ended up being rescued a year or so later in quite a state so my instincts were right.

When I myself want a puppy from somebody I keep in touch frequently and make sure they know how keen I am, that is of course above having told them everything about myself etc. As a breeder I much prefer the buyers who keep in touch a lot, that shows me they are not going to change their mind.

i too have got a waiting list for my pups and its now full ,i dont take deposits but 3 out of them have asked if they can pay a deposit when they come at 4weeks to see the pups i dont have a problem with it ,they all said it just makes them feel better? LOL ,ive got to know them well over the months they waited for our girl to come in season and have visited us and our dogs alot ,i too like two sox pick out which pups suit which family so every1 is happy.we as breeders know how pups the best ;) xx

We take deposits but only after the pups are 6 weeks old, as they would have had lots of photo updated by that point and the option to pull out if they didn't like what they had seen, equally we make sure that people have seen several litters before they make up their minds, we have a cooling off period so let people see the litter and have a play then let the family's go home and discuss the litter then if they like can put down a deposit. We are not really pushy on the deposits but found many buyers wanted to.

We hold off viewing as we usually want a puppy from the litter and choose as late as possible another reason why we hold off deposits taken early, but don't agree to put a deposit on a litter that isn't born or I haven't seen.

yes in finding that this time triona (We are not really pushy on the deposits but found many buyers wanted to.)xx

We did put a deposit on our American cocker, but not either of the Cavaliers we've bought over the years. As a breeder I wouldn't ask for one because it would make things even more awkward if you changed your mind, as others have said. I did have a situation with my first litter where a couple of different people wanted one of the puppies and the ones I didn't pick got quite nasty and said I had been stringing them along and wasting their time, whereas I had said right from the start there were other people interested.

I never take a deposit I prefere to have an exit if I should need one and also from the buyers point of view if they changed their minds I wouldn't want them to have a pup just because they had paid a deposit.

Don't take deposits as I, like the others, want to have the option of changing my mind.  I had a very similar situation to Marianne actually.  I also wouldn't want someone to go through with having a puppy if they had doubts based on their having paid a deposit.  Agree with the others about picking pup for owners, albeit taking into account a little of their preference too.

slightly aside form the exact question, when you are saying you like to get to know someone what kind of things would you like to do to get to know someone ? I would think if you live nearby coming to see you and your dogs regulaly meeting the family is fairly easy but if you are a few hundred miles away it is abit more difficult . What else would people want
I am really interested as a future puppy buyer and want to allow the breeder (s) to learn as much as they need about me . I have paid deposits on two occasions and feel that it secures the pup I want in my mind. I suppose that is because I know me lol and dont feel I would change my mind but there are some very interesting and valid alternative views. Must say I thought it was the done thing these days.

hi two sox
I have 8mth pup and I paid 100 pound deposit for her as was the only female left and wanted to pay that as wanted them to know I defiantly wanted this pup,I live in the south and had to travel to edingburgh so didn't want to have a wasted journey.
Just to add I did see her at 6WKS and there was someone else interested in her as well but knew i was meant to have her.
I've never put a deposit on anything before(crossbreeds) as this is my first pedigree as just started showing.

Nessa

As a buyer I well understand the anxiety that a breeder may change their mind however there are alternative options to a formal deposit for owners who wish to reassure themselves that the breeder won't back out at the last minute.

We've seen on here that people get so excited about the puppy and start buying things quite early - do make sure to share that with the breeder, they want to know that you are preparing for the puppy.  Breeders can help by sending advice and information throughout the process and presumably you can gauge your potential owners by the way in which they respond to you.  Reading material is often a good idea - do you recommend a training book they could buy?  It's hard to start reading when the pup is at home but plenty of spare evenings until then!

If breeders use a particular food, owners can ask them about it and get some in advance or breeders can offer to use their buying rates to buy bags on behalf of their owners.  The same applies to puppy wormers.  Breeders can engage owners in preparing for the puppy by giving information about travel arrangements, crate training, APDT course, KC Good Citizens certificates.  Shopping around for insurance takes time too so it's best to start before the pup gets home and breeders can help point owners in the right direction.

As long as you both keep each other informed there shouldn't be any anxiety about one or other dropping out.  I'd be very worried about a breeder that didn't want to be in touch and I can see why in that instance owners would feel an early deposit is safer.

100% marianneBs reply...we say the exact same and for the same reasons.

Have never taken or paid a deposit for a puppy. If I didn't feel that I could trust the potential puppy buyer or breeder respectively, then I wouldn't be dealing with them.

> Especially when so many adverts in the local rag say "deposit secures"

Which means exactly that!  :-(

They are not the sort of people to ask you questions.  Whereas I would give you a grilling, they will sell to the first person turning up with cash in their hands.

I have always taken deposits after being messed about with my very first litter.

It is what is advised in The Book of the Bitch, which was my guide when I first started breeding.

That said the deposit is only a small amount (£50), less than the cost of fuel coming to see me for most potential puppy buyers, so nto a sum that would make a person think they had to proceed with a puppy purchase they no longer wanted, but enough to stop total time wasting.

Mine is a numerically small breed so litters can be hard to find, and on the other hand the number of potential owners is sporadic too.

I like to know soon after birth which of my puppy list are going through with the purchase so that I can offer available pups to people lower on the list or speedily put the unlucky ones onto another breeder waiting list so they don't miss out.

I have often had people waiting a long time for a puppy to be available and if I have to let them down I prefer it to be sooner than later.

It also avoids people booking with several breeders who all think they have a puppy booked, and suddenly two out of three have not, and could have allocated the puppy elsewhere.

I take deposits once I am sure that the pups are likely to live.  Deposits are non returnable unless I am unable to fulfil the booking for any reason.

>It also avoids people booking with several breeders who all think they have a puppy booked

I don't consider a 'booking' as being definite until the puppy actually leaves. When I was breeding I'd have a list of people who were interested in having a puppy, but they were never considered 'booked'.

Brainless,

When you take deposits is this after the people have visited and chosen their pup? I know being on a waiting list is one thing, but what happens if a buyer only wants one pup in the litter? Deposit secures that pup, or just a pup in your litter? What if their choice is denied, then what? A breeder has every right to change their mind, so say they wanted to keep said pup a buyer wanted, would you refund then? Also would a show home have advantage over a pet home for choice?

People know in advance (after the pups are born) where they are in the choosing order for the sex they are looking for, and of course if they are not happy to have the last pup in their sex they don't make a deposit. 

This is determined primarily by who booked first and to some extent on whether they are looking to show as I obviously would prefer the most promising puppies from the show point of view went to the homes who wanted to do this, and might perhaps contribute to the breeds gene pool.

It does help that this is a breed that all come in one colour/coat pattern, so a person not intimate with the litter is unlikely to tell them apart from one day to the next.

It is interesting that people seem to choose the pups I think most suitable for that family, so I either understand my pups or the potential owners well.

People do find they have favourites in a litter, but if they know they have third choice of four or whatever they know someone else has prior claim.

To be honest people that have first hcoice are always going to be in the minority in litters of more than one.

I don't take deposits and feel that 'deposit secures'  does not reflect the manner in which I undertake the sale of my puppies. The only time I accepted a deposit was under pressure from a buyer who felt I was not seriously considering her as a potential owner unless I took a deposit ! As it was , her circumstances changed and she was unable to take a puppy so I had to go to the trouble of refunding the cheque . On the other hand,no payment of deposits does give me a fair amount ot latitude should I change my mind about the suitability of a potential owner ,although fortunately this has only happened on one occasion

I do appreciate that many members of the public feel that they should pay a deposit to ensure that they get a puppy but I suspect they have been influenced by the sales pitch of the adverts on many breeder/puppy sales websites with the 'hurry hurry ,while stocks last ' exhortations !

I've only paid a deposit once, and that was £200 at 6 weeks old, collection at 8 weeks. I was a bit surprised to be asked to be honest as I'd known the breeder for years but was happy enough to pay, especially since it was only 2 weeks before collection anyway.

I've never bred a litter but wouldn't ask for a deposit. Does it depend on the breed? In my breed, there are usually a lot more people waiting for puppies than there are puppies available, and they're not really a breed that requires specialist knowledge.

That said the deposit is only a small amount (£50), less than the cost of fuel coming to see me for most potential puppy buyers, so nto a sum that would make a person think they had to proceed with a puppy purchase they no longer wanted, but enough to stop total time wasting.

Having read the recent thread where somebody was prepared to name and shame another person on Facebook and similar places, or even get a solicitor involved, all because of £30 not having been paid to them, I dread to think what some people would do if they faced losing £50!

>People know in advance (after the pups are born) where they are in the choosing order for the sex they are looking for, and of course if they are not happy to have the last pup in their sex they don't make a deposit.

In breeds with markings, where no two have ever been identical, the gender is merely a starting point. A person could be first on the list for a gender but not like the markings (whcih aren't apparent for some weeks) of any of them, and so to bound to a puppy they aren't actually attracted to would be terrible; the homing would be doomed and unhappy for puppy and owner. Equally the fourth person wanting a bitch (say) might not be attracted to the supposedly 'better' puppies, so the fourth choice would actually be their first pick!

> so the fourth choice would actually be their first pick!

Actually I have rarely found that people didn't end up with their prefered puppy or at worst second, but as we have both said there isn't the markings issue.

In fact you won't know what final coat tone our breed will have until it is a mature adult, and even then it will vary depending on being in or out of coat etc.

As babies they start dark, then end up oatmeal by 8 weeks, with even the ears loosing colour, just the black on muzzles, so nothing like an adult.

The only clue is the parents and other relatives, as to whether you may end up with  a lighter or darker one, and even then nothing is certain. :D

I am sure to a puppy buyer a litter of yellow or black labs will pretty much all seem the same and only i they have been with them fro quite some time will differences be noticed, but then we all know that pups will change even in behaviour once away from the litter, as to a large extent they are a blank canvas.

>but then we all know that pups will change even in behaviour once away from the litter, as to a large extent they are a blank canvas.

I totally agree. So when breeders say "I picked this one for you because its character and behaviour most suits your circumstances" they're really only guessing, They have no idea how any of the puppies will develop once in a new environment.

> I totally agree. So when breeders say "I picked this one for you because its character and behaviour most suits your circumstances" they're really only guessing, They have no idea how any of the puppies will develop once in a new environment.

but having had them for 24/7 for around 8 weeks and knowledge of the generations that came before they are far more likely to be able to make an educated guess/assessment of a puppies traits than a potential owner who can only base their assessment on the time spent visiting.

But the breeder is basing their judgement of the potential owners' on just the time visiting too. It works both ways. The breeder knows no more about the potential owners than the potential owners know about the puppies. It's a guess; an educated guess maybe, but still a guess. The breeder knows how the puppies behave as babies in a litter - they don't know how each individual will develop in the outside world. As you say, each puppy is a blank canvas, which, if well bred and well reared, will leave the breeders home without 'baggage'.

if well bred and well reared, will leave the breeders home without 'baggage'.

So it makes things easier when to all intents and purposes all the pups are the same (to a pet owner at any rate), as they can't really go wrong, if the vetting/research has been good, and the breed is going to be a good choice for the potential owner. 

Just a case of picking dog or bitch once the other issues of breed and owner suitability are covered. 

It is only someone looking at getting more deeply involved in the breed as other than a companion where evaluating a dogs finer latent working abilities/instincts, physical points, blood lines etc comes into play. 

Unless the person looking for something more than companionship is a breed expert themselves, then they really need to be guided by the breeders expertise/choice.  This evaluation is often a consensus of opinion of nto just the breeder but others in their breed they have used to help grading/evaluating.  Digital photography and email help augment the 'puppy parties' where you can get a wider inmput.

>So it makes things easier when to all intents and purposes all the pups are the same (to a pet owner at any rate),

As I've said, in many breeds - certainly not in mine! - that just isn't the case. Every single one looks different, and what appeals to one person doesn't to another. The only owners who genuinely aren't affected and influenced by appearance are the blind!

> As I've said, in many breeds - certainly not in mine! - that just isn't the case.

but in many others it is the case, there is no coat pattern, colour or texture to muddy the waters.

So as in all things one size does not fit all.

ive found that an out going puppy stays just that when he/she goes to their new home, 1 that holds back more in a large litter and seems quite comes out its shell so to speak but is still more layed back then the others. but has for becoming an adult dog alot is down to the owner and training the foundations are layed with the breeder to make sure pup isnt nervus and frightend of its own shadow.