Can't figure out how to do a Poll???

From another thread I was wondering how many breeders actually do ID their pups before they leave for new homes.

How many do, and which method, chip Tattoo, or both.

I am just as interested in how many don't and why?

To kick off, have had every litter ear tattooed, reason traceability back to me by an organisation run by dog people, also visible ID, good theft deterrent and I don't need to buy a scanner to be sure of a pups Identity.

we microchip and have done for years. All parents have DNA profile also.

All my dogs are tattooed and the pups leave me with tattoos also - reason, unless you are blind you already have the scanners in your head ;) also as Brainless, my pups should find their way back to me if ever in rescue.

However, I called the dog warden out for a found Staffy bitch recently and invited him in to meet my dogs as he's never seen the breed and he admitted that in this authority they only check for chips.  I showed him the tattoos and he still said they wouldn't "bother looking at ears as they only check for chips" :( :(   Not sure whether it's because they are just lazy and ill-informed (typical of many LA employees in this area) or trying to sell me microchipping for my girls.

I did make him promise that if he ever picks up a Bedlington or Bedlington suspect/cross he would contact me as I know just about all the Bedlies in this area and would know who has lost one.  Not holding my breath tho :(

Have been considering chipping, but concerned about the number that seem to move, ones that stop working etc.

Surely every dog picked up by rescues is seen by a vet and a basic health check would include checking ears.

Chip before they leave

Mine are tattooed before leaving me.  Vets very often advise new owners to have Microhip too!!

MIne are chipped before they leave. I keep a note of their chip number alongside their KC Reg number.

Don't breed but this dog and previous one both came from 'proper' breeders and both were tattooed when I got them, not chipped. I would have got tattoos done if they hadn't been done but would not go out and get them chipped.

Chip before they leave and take their dna by cheek swab to be stored at the AHT.

> .Surely every dog picked up by rescues is seen by a vet and a basic health check would include checking ears

I know one of my own breed rescues go out of their way NOT to hand back to breeders, they hate every breeder and will not hand them back.

I also have mine microchipped before leaving.

> they hate every breeder

This is so very, very common.  I even hear vets that I work with (who only deal with large livestock), chant this mantra.

Funny thing is, one asked me for a pup a couple of years ago, and I didn't say yes or no.  Just emailed photos of parents and litter.

Oh, and a copy of my terms.  :-)  :-)  :-)

never did hear back!  :-)

Microchips for me, and now legally must do this for docking paperwork. Have tried tattoos in addition to chips but have been disappointed so now just use chips.  Never had a chip migrate.

All my own dogs have DNA profiles but haven't done pups before they leave home.

K 

I have been tattooing my litters since 1996 and the first pup done had a perfectly readable tattoo 14 years later.  As with all methods used it's down to the skill of the operator.
Any pup I keep will have a chip (belt & braces) since this is a requirement of the pet passport.

Would never dream of selling a puppy or kitten that wasn't microchipped, I consider it just as vital as regsitration. I'll never consider tattoos again though as I've only ever had one dog whose tattoo remained readable. There must be far too many people doing it badly for me to have had so many unreadable ones. Joke of it was, I had several dogs in the past that were tattooed by some of the people in charge of the tattoo register, it was done because my ex husband was a canine journalist and it was done free of charge to show to him how good tattoos were. The last of those dogs died this year aged 15 and you would never even have known he had a tattoo. Invisible. Just now I looked at my 10 year old Malinois and my 7 year old Golden, done by 2 different people. The Malinois you wouldn't even know had a tattoo unless you knew and looked really hard. The Golden's is much more visible but totally unreadable.

the two that did mine must be fantastic as even with my pooor sight I can still read them all.  Kizi's 13yrs and Jozi 11 today.

All my own are chipped as well due to Pet passport requirements.

I have gone back to chipping any pup I keep too - so many people have never heard of tattooing so thought it was wise to do both - I call it 'chip & pin'!!!

Double protection cannot be a bad thing.

All microchipped and vaccinated before they go

My girl will be Microchipped and innoculated before she goes to her new home.

all mine are microchiped before they go.

summer, this is somthink that I have been wondering about if you have them chipped before leaving. How do you know which is which? also do the new owners have them re-chipped? I am all for it but! havn't done it yet. The tatoo, in a white Sammie would be seen. It would only be possible if all the Samoyed "people" said it was exceptable.
It is said, that it is a money scam to make the new owners pay to transfer ownership.
I have been debating it in my mind for over 12months.

Denese

ANNM172,
At what age do they leave you? Mine leave at approx 8-9 weeks. The one I kept for 12weeks to get vaccinated before he went, would not leave and cried and took a long time to settle in his new home. I was going to have the first vaccine before they went, again the other vet said they would have to start again as he refused to give a second injection as they had not given the first.

Denese

All my pups are chipped before leaving me at 8 weeks

All my pups are chipped and have first vac before leaving home at 8 weeks.
Problem with having them chipped is u have to have a scanner available for the day they leave so u know they are receiving the right puppy. This wouldnt be a problem if pups had already been chosen and paperwork was filled in for each owner on the day of chipping but alot of the time I choose my pups at 7 weeks which means then people are choosing their pups on day of collection. I was lucky to be able to borrow a scanner.

All my puppies (kept or sold ) are microchipped before leaving, I fill in all paper work with new owners names and contact details and send them off the day puppy leaves, so no transfer fee is ever payable. I did have to buy a scanner, but have found it to be a good investment. Used to Tattoo, found it good for my GSD's but anything with a hairy inner ear, it seemed to be a waste of time, as no one would ever think to look.  Also found tattooing much more barbaric than microchipping, Lost a GSD once that was tattooed and chipped, vet only checked for the chip, happily he was returned the same day. Each to there own I suppose, I keep detailed records of all things to do with dogs anyway so can easily verify a microchip even from a good while ago. 

Denese it would be no more visible than in mine, and mien are very clear but when your looking at the whole dog you don't notice the tat, even though I can see them quite clearly at the right angle in photos.

It's a bit like the shoes under the sofa, you see them in a photo but not when your just looking at a room.

> I did have to buy a scanner,

See that's the point having to buy a piece of equipment (which is no use to you after the pups are gone), and also at around £30 for each pup very expensive, but a great money spinner for Vet and chip and scanner manufacturers.

Also my main gripe with the chip they don't keep breeder details for future contact,a dn I want the pups traceable to me, and once they are in new owners name I won't be contacted, even if the new owners aren't contactable, a serious flaw in the system from a responsible breeders viewpoint.

Also the chips are no longer under one registry in UK.  Got one of mine done only to find it wasn't registered with Petlog, and I can't transfer the details to Petlog where all my others details are held, grrr :(

Hello Denese

> It would only be possible if all the Samoyed "people" said it was exceptable

I think it is up to the individual breeder to make their own choice.  I have never had a puppy buyer say they don't want their pup tattooed but if they did they wouldnt get the pup. End of. Then it is their decision if they want to pay to have the pup microchipped as well.

> It is said, that it is a money scam to make the new owners pay to transfer ownership.

The tattoo register have a scheme whereby breeders can do all the change of ownership transfers themselves rather than leave it to the new owners. If the breeder does the tattoo transfer for the whole litter they would get the cost of the litter registration back (£20) and the cost to do this for the breeder is £18 each pup. If the new owners do it the cost is £25. Some breeders will charge the extra on top of the puppy price, most others include it in the price of the pup.

HTH!

I would be interested to hear if any breeders pay for the KC reg of the pup into the new owners name (£15) and how breeders who microchip their pups before they go handle the cost side.  I had a pup microchipped waiting to go to Australia & also paid for the transfer to the new owner.

>

See that's the point having to buy a piece of equipment (which is no use to you after the pups are gone), and also at around £30 for each pup very expensive, but a great money spinner for Vet and chip and scanner manufacturers.

Of course the scanner will be of use -you can check your own dogs' chips and when travelling with a pets passport, bring it with you so you are 100 % certain the chip is there and can be found. I'd never go abroad without my own scanner.

It's also very useful to be able to SHOW puppy buyers their puppy is chipped, show it is the right pup etc, by scanning it.

And you don't have to pay £30 a pup -just take the course and in future the cost will be more like £6 per pup. And no need to cart them off to the vet.

Also my main gripe with the chip they don't keep breeder details for future contact,a dn I want the pups traceable to me, and once they are in new owners name I won't be contacted, even if the new owners aren't contactable, a serious flaw in the system from a responsible breeders viewpoint.

You can always pay to upgrade the microchip registration and you stay as the owner with the new owner being listed as second contact, that solves that problem. When I last bought a tattooed pup, few years ago, they wanted £25 to register it in my name so I never bothered -paying the extra for PetLog Plus is cheaper.

I would be interested to hear if any breeders pay for the KC reg of the pup into the new owners name (£15) and how breeders who microchip their pups before they go handle the cost side.

I give the new owners the microchip details but don't register it in their name until I have been paid.

I have only travelled once with 3 of my dogs, and not at all with the others, so checking the chips at the vets is fine for me.

> It's also very useful to be able to SHOW puppy buyers their puppy is chipped, show it is the right pup etc, by scanning it.
>
>

I show them the pups have ear tattoos, no equipment except eyes. ;)

> And you don't have to pay £30 a pup -just take the course and in future the cost will be more like £6 per pup. And no need to cart them off to the vet.
>

Couldn't bring myself to do anything with needles.

> You can always pay to upgrade the microchip registration and you stay as the owner with the new owner being listed as second contact, that solves that problem. When I last bought a tattooed pup, few years ago, they wanted £25 to register it in my name so I never bothered -paying the extra for PetLog Plus is cheaper.

but your involving more expense and have to assume the new owner will keep ti that way.  After all they are entitled to register the chip in their name and that's your details gone.  I do actually count on the new owners not transferring the tattoo.  By encouraging them to have pup chipped with vaccinations I know that one ID traces to me (whether they transfer or not) the other to the owner, simples.

but your involving more expense and have to assume the new owner will keep ti that way.  After all they are entitled to register the chip in their name and that's your details gone. 

Not at all, by doing it the way I suggest only YOU can change details, nobody else. And it's STILL cheaper than tattoos! And will stay useful for life unlike tattoos. I just checked the NDTR website and it's £7 per pup to tattoo, £25 to register in name of breeder and £25 to change ownership from breeder -that's extortion compared to £6 a pup when you chip yourself and then pay £15 for lifetime unlimited changes of address and one extra person listed.

all microchipped before they leave us always.

> that's extortion compared to £6 a pup when you chip yourself and then pay £15 for lifetime unlimited changes of address and one extra person listed.

but there is no way I want to chip myself (and pay for a course, equipment etc) so it means getting the vet to do it at extortionate cost, where it is only costing me £7 per pup plus one reg fee of £25.

Breeding on average less than 7 pups a year why would I want to buy scanner, learn to chip, buy chips etc.

Any idea how I can get my other bitch onto Petlog database?

Mine are all microchipped & had first vaccs (even the one I keep) before leaving.Mother is DNA Profiled.I keep a record of microchip numbers with KC number with the owners details.

> just take the course and in future the cost will be more like £6 per pup. And no need to cart them off to the vet.
>

If the course don't cancel on you :-(, paid for mine and a couple of days before they cancelled saying not enough people on it, sadly...

I just couldn't bring myself to stick needles into pups or myself, can watch operations, blood is fine, but not injection needles.

Microchipped before they leave me - I want them to be traceable back to me and I'm also very happy to be accountable for breeding them. Something I strongly believe is every single person who is responsible for producing a litter should be traceable and accountable for so doing, whether chipped or tattoo. :-)

Mine go no earlier than 12 weeks but I have recently bought two puppies who had their first innoculation at the breeders and second here no problem.

I pay for the chipping but keep the paperwork and fill the new owners details in when they come for them to post off

Same here, chip them (cost included) and fill in the details of the new owners. Have considered tattoos but still to be convinced I'm afraid.  Did not know about petplan plus so shall look at this as I would like a way of leaving my contact details on the puppies. 

Last litter also had their first jags but not sure I will do this again as, although there was no problems this time, I have heard too many stories of new owners vets insisting on starting whole course again.

Do wonder with those who chip before the pup leaves them know of problems with chips moving. The only one of mine I had done under 12months now has the chip in his elbow, asked the vet and they said they have looked at the records of chipped animals and found that those done under 12 months often had the chip move sometimes so much they had to be removed. Asked if it was the make of chip and they said no even dogs done elsewhere seem to suffer chip migration if they are done when pups.

So no problem if you are with the dog when someone wants to read the chip as you can tell them where to look but I think if you are not there then as a tool to reconcile the ownership of the dog would be next to useless.

> Do wonder with those who chip before the pup leaves them know of problems with chips moving.

3 pups chipped at 12 weeks or before.  1 pup chipped at 4 months because I ran two on so didn't chip her until we knew who we were keeping.  Never had a problem with them moving.  One of our girls' chip got caught on implanting, so instead of implanting in the 'mid shoulder' area it got 'carried' a bit further down and is down behind her right shoulder blade, but still in the scanning area.  None have moved even a centimetre.

In all the discussions we've had about this on the 5 breed boards I'm on I always hear 'we hear of so many that have moved', but never has anyone on that board ever said they've had one move or fail.  So I honestly don't believe the number is anywhere near the 'hearsay'.

I'm paranoid, but I just have them scanned a couple of times a year to be sure they haven't moved.

I've only had one litter of pups so far and I didn't permanently ID them, and have no plans to do so for the next, but I think it's a good idea and understand why some people do.  I've thought about it, but just decided not to.

This particular dog is the only one who has been done so young and I only asked the vet because of my experience with my own dog. Before this dog I had always waited and had they done when the dog was hip scored. My vet did say there was a definite record of more movement the younger the dog was done.

I have had all mine chipped between 6 - 8wks and not had any move. Perhaps I'm lucky ?? 

> I didn't permanently ID them, and have no plans to do so for the next, but I think it's a good idea and understand why some people do.  I've thought about it, but just decided not to.

Are you not worried that some time down the line they could end up in rescue or be up for sale and there would. be no way of tracing you?

There is a dog pup of the age of my last litter up for re-homing on pre-loved, and I find it reassuring that he definitely isn't one of mien as no tattoo.

There have been other instances of dogs in rescue over the years that could have been one of mine but checking for ID meant I was nto having to madly contact all the owners, and then wonder if they had been truthful about still having the dogs etc.

It's not something I wouldn't consider doing and I did briefly consider the points you've raised when I had my last litter.  But I've just bred the one litter so far, and the three pups from that went to people I'd built up a good relationship/friendship with and am still in touch with on a regular basis.  2 of them want pups from my next litter, the other two people on my waiting list are people I know well in the breed, so it's not been a concern yet.  The three (plus my own) from the first litter are all chipped.  I know extended family members and I'm not too worried about them falling into the wrong hands.  I know that stuff happens, and things change, and that any one of us can be snowed, but so far (touch wood) I've been lucky - all my buyers from that first litter were with me from either months before the breeding or well before the whelping.  It may have been very different if I'd needed to advertise and was screening people while the pups were on the ground and not the same amount of time to build those relationships.

If I'm totally honest, it's not something the majority of people do in our breed in this country (though it is more common in the US to chip before leaving), so while I thought about it in passing, I didn't think too hard on it.  We also have a good breed rescue in place and our breed community is pretty close. 

But then I was also one of the few in my breed who actually wrote up a thorough contract for mine and required the buyers to sign.  Though it's now being done more often esp as people are joining the ABS where it's a requirement.

I may have a rethink before the next litter (not due to be bred until May/June).  The other thing in our breed is, is that while I'm happy with the thought of chipping around 12 weeks (and might consider it earlier) a majority of people prefer the dogs to be bigger before they are chipped (we're not a small breed, but we're not large either).

It would be interesting for me (perhaps another thread or a continuation of this one) to hear of people's experiences chipping smaller breeds at 8 weeks (my breed goes to their new homes at 8).

My very first litter were all microchipped at 6 weeks old when I took them along for their eye test and BAER hearing test.

I wouldn't do it again though..... as I was really upset by how they "squeaked" when the chip went in. The effects of stress on young animals are well known and personally I feel now.....that 6 to 8 weeks is far too young when you consider that the puppy is soon to be leaving for his/her new home with all the additional stress that entails.

From that particular litter one microchip was nowhere to be found at a later date so the puppy had to be chipped again by his new owner. The puppy that I kept myself is now carrying it in his shoulder.

I am considering Tattooing as a gentler less invasive alternative

I've put every time that one of my girls has disappeared, can't be found anywhere and I'm not going to have her x-rayed to see if it appears anywhere.

tattoo,s are the norm in my breed but i worry about their ear not going up after ,ive met a good few that have a floppy ear and have been tattooed in that ear ,and for that reason i have them chipped