On Sunday my sisters boxer collapsed :(

She had been barking at a dog the other side of the garden fence, she refused to stop when told so my dad went out to bring her in (sis lives with dad), on her way back in she showed signs of struggling with her throat & collapsed on the ground, laying still for about 3 mins. She messed herself :( She showed no movement and my poor dad thought she was a gonner, then she got up, had another bark and walked onto into the house. She only has one eye and had landed  with her rmaining eye towards the ground, so it couldn't be seen wheather she had the eye open/closed etc.

Obviously she was rushed to the vets. The vets could find nothing worng other than a slightly elevated heart rate. They think she just got herself over-excited. They did mention she could do with loosing some weight, but I think they should have pushed that point further. Pip (boxer bitch), is 4 years old and weighs 38kg
A year ago Pip was very ill with a vaginal infection, it took a couple of weeks on AB's to get her well again, she was so ill then she had a few fits, where her body was going into spasms and her legs were jerking about. Sundays episode was nothing like this (she was 28kg then).
I am sure her weight is a problem and have been nagging my dad about this for some time, but he & my sister seem to think that becasue the dog is solid to the touch, that she isn't fat. I keep telling them that dogs don't get all wobbly & flabby the same way that people do, but I don't think it's sinking in.

I think this latest scare may help them re-think thier over-feeding but I don't know how long that will last.

I don't think it's Pips actual meals that are a problem, it's simply the amount of treats she's being given.

As they are hard to convince and worry that they will upset the dog by witholding all treats (Pip will bark for treats & they relent!), I've sugested putting a set amount of treats in a pot and snapping each of the treats in half, once the pot is empy - NO MORE TREATS THAT DAY. Part of the problem is that dad doesn't know how many treats sis have given to Pip & vice versa. If the treats are in a pot, then each of them can see when shes had her quota. Also, with the treats snapped in half she is getting less volume of treats, but not completely being 'deprived'.
If anyone has any suggestion on how to convice them to get Pip lean, or any idea on the collapsing episode that would be great.

Oh - Pip came back from the vets on Sunday after being checked over. She has been fine since :) the only other thing from the vets was IF it happens again, her gums have to be checked as the colour of her gums can help explain whats going on better.

May be worth her having an ECHO.  I was at a DCM seminar a couple of weeks ago and they said Boxers were particularly prone :(

Please ensure that this boxer does not have a heart murmur also has the vet checked for Syncope?  This is not rare in boxers.

My daughters boxer has been through a very similar thing. For no reason she dropped to the floor, very still with no kicking. After a couple of minutes she got up and carried on as normal. This happened 3 times in all over a few weeks, the last time she was walking around the edge of our duck pond and fell under the water, not moving. My grandson rushed into the water and pulled her out and again after a couple of minutes she was back again wondering why she had a wet coat. The vet did tests and suggested that it was like mini strokes and lack of blood to the brain made her drop. She is now on heart tabs and is a different dog with no more episodes.

It's well worth suggesting having a blood test for hypothyroidism
which can affect both weight, they gain and if left undiagnosed the heart.

Boxers can suffer with a variety of different heart problems such as
Aortic Stenosis and Cardiomyopathy
http://www.boxerbreedcouncil.co.uk and click on health button
AS = aortic stenosis BCM/CM = cardiomyopathy
You can also see a list of deduced transmitting dogs for cardiomyopathy so you can see
if any of these dogs are in your sisters Boxers' pedigree.

Boxers do range with weight - I have my four ranging in weights from 24.9kgs-25.90kgs.
Their ages are 3-9 1/4 years old. The one that is 9 1/4 years old is top end of height scale - perhaps just over breed standard height ;) she now weighs in at 25.90kgs whereas she used to be 30-31kgs before her dietry intolerances.

What food is she fed for her normal meals? How much weight wise to they feed her?
What treats do they feed her?
Does she have any intolerances re foods?

What I do for my girls, they all get fed twice a day I feed complete (JamesWellbeloved).
Then normally they have two kongs (filled with the complete dog food)
whilst I am at work (one in morning and one in the afternoon)
I work out what their rations should be (if needs be I will weigh the food to see what it looks like in the bowls) and then split it between the meals and the kongs..
If I give any more treats (normally just fish 4 dogs sea jerky) then I have to reduce down the main meals amount.
If I notice that the girls are putting on weight I will reduce down the main meal portion sizes...
if they are looking too lean then up food...

At 4 years old she needs to be leaner, if they don't get the weight off it will affect her in her later years.
The leaner she is the better it will be especially if she gets arthritis etc.
Some 'heavier' Boxers can also be prone to cruciate problems.
Being heavier will put more strain on her joints and some organs. (Although I'm sure I don't need to tell you that)
Plus being 'fit' and not over weight hopefully it will help her longevity.

Thanks all for your suggestions, I'll pass them on :)

> What food is she fed for her normal meals? How much weight wise to they feed her?

She's fed twice a day. I  she has 1 small can of chappie (could be a different brand of tinned food, not 100% sure) per day, with 2 small white fish fillets. Whatever type of tinned food she has, is as a result of the exclusion diet (explained below :) )

> Does she have any intolerances re foods?

Yes she does, but I'm not too sure as to what. She did have to go on an exclusion diet a while back as she had lost a lot of fur along the side of her body and had constantly itchy feet. Food (not sure what or how many types of), was found to be a trigger. Since identifying it, the itching has topped & hair has grown back :) Before she went on the exclusion diet she had a load of tests done, skin biopsies and some blood tests as it was thought there could be an hormonal cause to the hair loss, but I don't think any checks for thyroid function were done.

> What treats do they feed her?

Oh my gosh, a ridiculous amount of junk! Gravy bones, Schmacos, other dog treats - a bowl of milk for supper

As I said earlier, I think her actual meals aren't the problem, it's all the extras :(
When Pip was a pup and a young dog she was not interested in food atall. For the first 18 months my sister was always worried about her being too thin - such a fussy, non-food orientated dog. Then as she reached adulthood she started to enjoy her food more and actively look for it rather than walk away form her bowl and go on hunger-strike for 48 hrs! This hasn't helped either, as they are so relieved to see her eat and to not be looking all skin & bones......

Had a chat to dad about Pip today, apparently as far as the vet can tell from listening, Pips heart is fine and the vet seems to think it's a problem with ther throat from getting over-excited (had a quick google re that and obesity can be a trigger).
On Sunday the vet said they could take Pip back for a check up in 2 weeks time if they wanted to, but the vet didn't see any need to see her again unless she had another 'episode'. I've persuaded my dad to take her back in 2 weeks time anyway for a check up - even if she is still normal. I'm shopping with dad tomorrow, so I'll have several hours to get the weight issue rammed home!

She's fed twice a day. I  she has 1 small can of chappie (could be a different brand of tinned food, not 100% sure) per day, with 2 small white fish fillets. Whatever type of tinned food she has, is as a result of the exclusion diet (explained below )

This doesn't sound excessive, I tend to agree it has to be Pip's treats and the amount of them she gets.
To get her back on track they will have to be strict reduce the treats extensively and remind them it's for Pip's own good.

My dog that is the one that has dietry intolerances is fed the Royal Canin Sensitivity Control (Blue Whiting and tapioca)
complete food. However for some this can be very expensive, I buy mine from Pet Planet it's approx 20% cheaper than buying from the vet which is quite a saving. A 14kgs bag works out at £56 and some odd pence if I remember correctly.
However not sure if this food will be suitable for Pip.
Would think that some of those treats they give may not help the dietry intolerances thou ;)
But pedigree do do a 'low fat' version of treats - so might be worth checking them out to see if she can have any of these...
May be worth checking to see if Pip was checked for hypothyroidism thou as it is more common, especially in spayed bitches.

Food fussy Boxers are completely normal when they are young. I've had a couple of them & they can drive you mad
with worry.
My first one had me trained very well, you'd buy a two kilo bag of some complete, she'd eat it...and you'd think
hurrah cracked it..buy a bigger bag as it worked out cheaper and then three days later turned her nose up
and just wouldn't eat it...so change the food again, put appetisers on etc etc...she must have felt great to have me
under her paw..
Now I've learned the hard way and to 'tough' it out to a certain extent and if they are hungary they will eat if they aren't
they won't..although perhaps it can also be down to food intolerances..found that one of mine preferred Lamb to any other flavour of puppy/junior foods. This was after trial and error of the many premium foods that were on the market. Now as she's aged she's nearly 7yo she prefers lamb and fish and will pretty much eat anything now..whereas as a pup she'd barely eat.

Had a chat to dad about Pip today, apparently as far as the vet can tell from listening, Pips heart is fine and the vet seems to think it's a problem with ther throat from getting over-excited (had a quick google re that and obesity can be a trigger).


Ahhh you mean an overlong soft palette? (they can snore for England with this)
One of my veteran's (who sadly passed last year aged 11yo) also had this it meant she couldn't cope well in heat and weight can aggreviate it.
Had to be careful walking her so that meant either walking her on her harness or headcollar.
But with careful management we 'coped' (even meant having a portable air conditioning unit to keep the room cool for her in the summer when it got too hot for comfort) however knew we couldn't let her get over weight.

It would be worth going to a 'weight clinic' I know my own vet's do these.
Well the nurses check the weights etc and write down progress etc.
If they are very over weight the vet may get involved at first to help.
My own vets are good thou as their scales are in the waiting room so if your dad and sister didn't want
to do the clinics perhaps they could weigh Pip every two weeks and see if they can get her weight down
to a better level for Pip.

Good Luck :)

ok,i have no experiance with boxers so this is a stab in the dark,but being quite flat faced could it be palate problems,in my pugs and friends pugs,if they get over excited or bark they just drop dead(but not dead,just look dead,completly stiff then come around fine)apparently its the soft palate too long at the back of the throat
just an idea
jo

I would totaly agree with you,as one of our Boxers kept collapsing without any reason he had been heart tested as a youngster and was a 0 grade,everytime he collapsed he wet himself but was up in almost as quick as he went down,we took him to the vets where by the time we got there he was back to being a typical boxer he was nearly 10yrs old,he was kept in the vets to have x rays,scan and bloods done but not a full test,everything came back clear,he still kept collapsing so we went back to the vets where they sent us upto Catterham to see a cardiologist (she actually left our vets the day before typical) we left him there for the day she ran tests and nothing showed up when we picked him up she suggested a Holter monitor to be worn for 24hrs this was done nothing again showed up,when we spoke to Nulla she asked whether a Tyhroid test had been done by our own vets which hadnt was done and can back that his readings were so low that he was put on Thyroxide with a weekly blood test his levels were never under control no matter how they altered his drugs,this went on for about 18mths then he was found to have a tumor on his spleen so was PTS he was 11 1/2 years old.So please make sure a Thyroid blood test is done,one of our bitches went on to have hypothyroidism and was controlled with meds.

> Ahhh you mean an overlong soft palette? (they can snore for England with this)
>

Saw dad today & yes, that is what the vet is sure it is - oh & Pip does snore for England, LOL, my dads word are 'she can wake the dead' with her snoring.

I started on the 'weight control' nag when my dad arrived today but he cut me short as - they've allready started!!! YAY :-D They've completely stopped ALL treats during the day time, so it's just 'supper time' treats left now. These have been cut down to only a few dog treats, which have all been snapped in half :) Pip has noticed the reduced treat intake and has started to steal the cat-food, so they have to make sure she can't get to that too now! Apparantly, by putting a daily ration of treats in a pot IS working, as dad/sis can each see if the other has allready given Pip her supper-time treats, so now there is no doubleing up :)

Wow, I've been nagging my dad & sis for yonks about getting Pip to shed a bit of weight and now they are finally doing it :)

Yipppeeee :)
They obviously do care for her..and yes I know what con artists Boxers can be..
Once went away to Portugal with OH left my then one and only Boxer with my mum
and my step-dad...
Three weeks later came back and oh my.....she was as round as a barrell!
She used to cock her head on the side and look with pleading eyes and give you
paw and then other paw.....well they fell for that big style....
Erm...one diet, more exercise and a few weeks later had her back at her right weight.

Boxers certainly are big characters :)
Oh they sure do love cat food ;) that's why mine are fed upstairs out of the dogs reach..
They are kept safely behind their dog gate lol.

Good luck with Pip :)