I've decided to head back to a raw food diet.
I've been to the vet and weighed both my boys.

I've used the calculator and worked out that the 54kg dog should be having about 800g x 2 meals a day to maintain his weight and the 45kg should be having 900g x 2 meals a day to increase his weight.

I'm just checking this would be right, as I want to make sure I order enough food to last a month. It was easy when I had the one dog on it before, now there are 2 and being on a budget I want to get this right.

Also i've got the suppliers down to Prize Choice(breeders prices) all in g and kg's and also TheDogFoodCompany. The latter have some prices in lbs and some kg's. I've tried working it out and having a blonde moment and it appears that the latter of the 2 is the cheapest? But heard that they are difficult to get in touch with to make orders..The former company, the more you order the cheaper it gets and they appear to deliver once a week round here.

Albion are good too if you can order enough which on those figures I think you could. I order 3 months at time.
I found The dog food company had a good range but yes difficult to get in touch with and be specific about delivery. Albion gave me no problems but slightly more expensive Didnt know about prize choice breeders will have to look ion to it.DFC do lovely meaty bones from sort of around the tail end of cow I think that completely get eaten. I did find it a nusiance that most of the meat came in large trays and I had to bag it all up before freezing. Yes ok so I am lazy I prefer very buzy lol
My 46kg gsd gets only 1kg per day if thats any help he has about 3 hours exercise 5 days a week less on the other two days and seems to maintain in that. On the other extreme pom/chi has 60g perday and certianly maintains on that with the same amount of exercise.

DO people generally check weights etc carefully for the food? I'm just curious because just as with amounts given on prepared food packaging, I think it varies from individual to individual so that what suits one does not necessarily suit another. I have just one dog that is fed 100 % raw, the rest are 50/50 (or perhaps more like 60/40 in favour of raw). He is spot on for weight, don't know what he weighs but for a male Malinois and comparing with the ones whose weight I do know, I would guess he's around 25-26 kg. Rocco is 2 years old. Recently the owner of one of his litterbrothers told me their dog gets 1 kg of raw meat a day, and from the photos, he's the same size as Rocco and same body -not fat, not thin, just right. Well I don't weigh my food but would say Rocco gets AT MOST a third of that amount a day.

In other words -we feed the amounts that seem right and adjust if the dogs seem to gain or lose weight.

The last time I went raw my eldest was still a puppy and I took the plunge without really weighing anything - He gained weight and did well on it.
I just need to know whether he gains weight or not as he has lost 5kg's in the past few months and I need him to put that back on. Once i'm happy then it will be done without really weighing as i'll have a fair idea on how much they need. It is trial and error and working on the amounts needed, but felt if I can work out their needs on what they weigh and what I want both dogs to achieve and see how it goes.

Wasn't too sure about Albion as people I know weren't very happy with the service. Used Berriewoods before, which I was happy with but they come up more expensive. I loved the choice on DFC, but don't need the hassle of trying to chase them to place an order. But seeing as they price up some of their's in lb's it makes it more confusing, but still think they are cheaper?

I agree marianne I kind of used a base calculation to start with then feed them like i do the family less  if they are getting a bit tubby more if they need to gain weight.
Just comparing Sues dogs to mine at a similar weight Whispa would love 1800g a day but would be  rather rounded, not a good look. Compare that to the mal you refer to and a different answer again.
I guess you just need a start point then go by eye and health
No I dont often weigh my food but know roughly what the amounts look like
Yep still think dfc are cheaper but not a lot I am not sure which way I am going next month either.

http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm

This is what I used to work out what they should be fed. It does depend on breed, how they put on weight or don't, also the meat you use. Breast of lamb is much more fattening than say chicken, so it would be adjusting amounts depending on the actual food in the bowl.
I'm now wondering if this is too much? I want to keep the heaviest at around the same and the lightest needs to gain weight. Both as it stands now are very easy to feel their ribs, no real fat covering at all.

Right going to work out the amounts I need and order from DFC, or at least try to now..

I would say the big boy sounds about right as a start point with 1600kg just wondered if the other is a bit much for a 45 kg dog but only based on my adult gsd of 45kg.
Obviously yours are a different breed and dont know how that affects their weight gain. My personal thought is dogs metabolisam is more likely to be the main factor than breed.
Someone els may ne able to shed some light on breed differences. Having said that Mia the  samll fry was worked out on the same basis as whispa not on an relationship to their different breeds.
I must say I do just mix and match their food aorund and dont do it in any scientific way. If they need to increase weight I would add a bit more fatty meat or the other way round much like we would do for us

However if you feel he needs a bit of weight you could see how he goes and then scale down a bit as required I am sure he wouldn't mind

I see what you're saying, its just he looses weight very quickly when he chooses not to eat so much and he does need to put back on the 5kg at least which he's lost recently, he's a very sensitive boy and with me being down I really think its affected him too :-(

>Right going to work out the amounts I need and order from DFC, or at least try to now..

We have been trying for over two weeks now... Emailing, answerphone etc
just about giving up and ordering from elsewhere else. It is a shame as they are kind of local so would prefer supporting them opposed to big national companies but if it is this difficult to place and order they are not going to be any good as we can't order months and months worth of food... I'm already topping up from the pet shop and that is expensive!!
Such a shame....

> We have been trying for over two weeks now.

Well if thats the case, then i'm not going to bother, it'll only start to annoy me, which I personally don't need right now... Calm is the word :-)

Although the percentages are a good guide (and certainly a sensible start point), much depends on the age and exercise levels of your dogs so there isn't really any hard and fast rule.  I find that I make adjustments depending on weather, energy level and the appearance and disappearance of their ribs!!  I've recently upped their food as I find that they they need more when the weather starts to get a bit colder.  I double checked what I'm currently feeding and I have a fit middle aged dog on 2.5% and a super active 3yr old on 3.5%.

I don't weigh bones but I do weigh mince as it helps me understand just what they are getting; how much to defrost each day; and how much to order.  It's also incredibly easy to get it wrong when guestimating and I'd rather not over-feed them.  I also have a puppy who is currently on 50% raw so it's important to get his amounts (and percentages of meat/bones/liver) right too. :)

Calm is a good word sue its one I am trying to keep in my life too. Shame about the dfc I too have had to top up from expensive pet shop and and cant do withthe hassel or the extra expense.

That being said sainsburys basics frozen chicken is very competitive and we really can share a meal I have mine cooked of course

> sainsburys basics frozen chicken

Funny you should mention that i've literally just been looking at their chicken wing prices, and they aren't much more than PC, also cheaper than Asda too as on a comparison chart!! Their basics range is good and i've often purchased the breast of lamb there as its better quality than Asda and cheaper than the butchers.

I started out feeding raw 5 years ago and at that time I weighed the dogs' food out so I knew what they were getting at each meal.

Now I do it all by sight and my GR gets around 550g of food a day split into two meals. My small terrier gets half that amount each day.

The GR weighed in at 31kg last Sunday - he is very active and does agility 2-3 times a week and is walked for at least 4 miles off lead each day. The terrier gets the same amount of exercise but mostly on lead and doesn't do agility. The terrier weighs just 8kg so proportionally he gets a far higher percentage of food than the one weighing 31kg but he is very lean and very hard to keep weight on him at all. I would recommend that you start out feeding between 2-3% of their body weight and then adjust accordingly - downwards in the case of my GR and greatly increased in the case of my terrier.

It costs me on average 75p a day to feed both dogs - I buy the majority of my  food from Landywoods.

Thanks i've clocked up a bill of over £100 just for one month, thats far too expensive, when did raw food prices go up so much? I thought I was paying too much on complete food, but that is working out so much cheaper and I could even move onto Orijen and pay less than raw :-(

Now I do it all by sight and my GR gets around 550g of food a day

That should have read 450g of food a day.

Thanks i've clocked up a bill of over £100 just for one month, thats far too expensive, when did raw food prices go up so much?

That sounds a huge amount - I spend between £15- £25 a month and about every six months or so I don't have to buy any food for a month as the freezer has enough in it to last me.

Yes that does sound a lot I usually spend about £35 per month based on approx 1kg per day or a little over that. If I can find my last order I could try and pm you the details and see how it compares to whatyou need if thats any help.
Btw its the frozen basics chicken that I but its cheaper than the fresh and you get various sizes in one pack 

FF if you could that would be awesome. I was working out, say for instance to get the weight i'd need to feed 4 blocks of tripe over 2 meals, which works out expensive.. Maybe I need to be feeding less than I have calculated? Oh I don't know.
They are currently on AG and eat way above and beyond the RDA and we are just about maintaining one's weight, he went through a spurt of putting on weight, but its plateaued now, the other has lost it..I don't want to change their diet to one which has more 'filler' in as has been suggested.

Suejaw - I share an order with a fellow raw feeder who advertised for somebody to share with on a raw feeding site. She lives a couple of miles away from me and we order a variety of foods and split it between us.

Last month I had 30 packs of food - a mix of beef, lamb, chicken with tripe and plain tripe and paid £15 for it. Since my terrier left home with my daughter when she moved out I now feed one pack of food a day and that averages out to 50p a day. When I first started raw feeding it cost me more as I had to buy a fair amount to start with in order to get the variety needed. Now I share an order we both order two different varieties and mix and match between us thus ending up with food from four different species each month.

I bought a small chest freezer specifically for the dog meat and it is always well stocked. I also feed tinned pilchards and sardines and buy these when they are on offer. I also have a look at the reduced counter in my local supermarket and take advantage of any good offers they have although the meat is rarely cheaper than the price I pay for at Landywoods.

I started out feeding PC but had to buy it from a local pet store and this was way too expensive to feed on a regular basis.

I don't feed vegetables at all apart from any that may be left over from dinner - rare - and the odd carrot or peelings from swede which my dog loves to eat as a treat.

Sorry to diverge, but any ideas or suggestions for me... I have rarely given my dog tripe, but when I have (Prize Choice) he's got the runs. Should I try another kind or introduce it differently? He has always had a cast-iron stomach and done well with any other new foods, raw or otherwise.

We use Durham Animal Foods for our raw supplies and have been really pleased with the quality and service. If you give them a ring they are really helpful and knowledgeable .

Will do sue may take a day or two while I remember wher I filed the order ( you see I am so organized I cant remember where I put things !!)

Introducing tripe I would try little amounts at atime and see how you go . Ues for some strange reason different "makes" can sometimes make a difference I find. Although my two are greedy guts and will eat most things except offal and turkey for some strange reason

We are currently finishing off some green ox tripe I had from earlier this year, decided to bulk buy and ended up with 120 blocks of tripe
Also have some freshly frozen rabbits too, which are being worked through, but can only be fed on a nice day, the smell is sickening when they start eating into them..

I feed raw, mine comes for Durham animal feeds , im sure they deliver down you way now they are very reasonable and have a good selection

i use raw to go, they deliver nationwide, very good quality meat.  their products and prices are on the website, and have always been friendly and helpful

Theres a brilliant little book by Tom Lonsdale called "Work Wonders"....its a simple and comical read and kind of takes all the mystery out of Raw Feeding.

Tom suggests that a carnivore will need 2 to 3% of its bodyweight per day but that some of the larger breeds will only need 1% of their bodyweight per day. (Puppies from 6 weeks to a year old will probably be consuming 2 to 3% of their predicted Adult weight per day)

Following is a helpful guide from his website.....

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/diet/exp-diet-guide.pdf

It can seem a little overwhelming when first considering making the change....as we get all "hung up" on getting things perfectly "complete and balanced"...(probably because we have trusted the pet food companies for so long....and are worried about trusting our own judgement and common sense.!)

I enjoy shopping for my gang....and I shop around all over...if I'm out and I see trays of bones for 99p outside the butchers then I'll just buy as much as I can carry to the car and either feed them straight the way or put them in the freezer. Ditto if I see any bargains in the reduced section of the meat or fish counter at Asda or Morrissons. I have a monthly delivery of lamb bones/beef bones/pork bones...tripe hooves...rabbit pieces...venison bones...... and various bits from www.lincspets.co.uk 

I have a friend who rings me up now and again when he has a bin bag full of wild rabbits for a £1 each....(if you let it be known that you are after wild rabbits then there is usually someone..... who knows someone.....who has hunting rights on a patch of land somewhere local...)

I have the whole green tripe chunks from Prizechoice...(really just because its packaged well and stores neatly in the freezer)

I give them two whole eggs each (in the shells) every week....and I'll give them a couple of slices of lambs liver each a week...(from Asda or Morrissons)

My ragamuffins are very often on the "well-fed" side of being able to feel their ribs (or not :) )...so then I'll just not feed any green tripe for a week and maybe have a day where I don't feed at all....... except for giving them 3 or 4 fish squares (from fish4dogs)

I don't feed any mixers...no carbohydrates....no grains...as a carnivore doesn't have the digestive enzymes to deal with them (and I don't bother with veg as mine just look at me as if I've lost the plot...if I offer it to them :) When it was hot I made them some ice lollies out of chicken stock.... and using my culinary flare..... put some sliced carrot in them to make them look pretty. They licked the ice and seemed to enjoy it...but left every single slice of carrot dehydrating in the sun :)

 

It aint that scientific, the best book for beginners to raw feeding is IMHO Switching to Raw by Sue Johnson, although I don't know if it is easily available in the UK. After that it is the ultimate diet for dogs and cats by Kymythy Schulze, both these books have easy diet plans, the latter gives you what nutrients dogs need and their sources and both lack the politics of either Ian Billingshurst or Tom Lonsdale!

I am not sure where you are shopping but I have two dogs, one eats about 500g of raw a day the other 2kgs and it costs me very little to feed. have you explored raw feeders at your local club(s) to get a coop going and get bulk buying very cheap, short shelf lives, abbattoirs and friendly butchers are your friends as a farmer's markets etc.

Mine get raw meaty bones once a day and then the other meal is either offal, fish, live yoghurt etc and they get pureed raw fruit and veg every day, a banana and an egg a day and basically whatever is in season or cheap.

Hi Sue seems a lot to me Merlot at 53kg gets about 800gms meat and some veg/egg/yoghurt/or whatever as well but not over 1000kg as she soon gets fat, Granny woo at 54kg and 8 1/2 gets about 600kg meat and LOTS of veg!!! Pup gets whatever she can eat!!! Thats a daily ration not per meal.
Aileen

I have some of the books Tohme you mention...

Aileen, If that is what you feed your's on a daily basis then my god i'm cutting way back on weight portions, lol..

My boys clearly need to put weight on if one is about the same weight as your girlies and the other a lot less, hmmm...

Hopefully myself and Rachelsetters can sort out some joint buying :-) If we are doing that, then hopefully we can share butcher bones, rather than her hog em all ;-) We just now need to discuss what company to use for the majority of food...

Thanks peeps for all your input and advice.. needed the steering in the right direction :-P

Yes Sue definitely up for shared order :)

Just emailing you some price lists I have for you to have a nosey over :-)

How are your boys enjoying their current posh raw food?

I feed raw and I started out a few years back by giving 2% of my adult dogs body weight in food per day - this was just to give me a starting point...if they lost weight i'd up it and vice versa.

I have an Akita (bitch) 5 1/2 yrs who's ideal weight is just under 40kg and to maintain her weight she gets roughly 800g per day. 

My male Rott (4yrs) weighs roughly 45kg and eats around 1000g per day.

14mth old bitch Rottie weighs in at 36kg and to keep her from looking ribby while she's growing she eats around 1400g per day.

My little Staffie hardly eats anything compared to the others but i'm constantly watching her weight now she's getting older and less active.

I never stick to exact amounts though, I just go on what they look and feel like.

I forgot to add I probably spend around £30 per month on blocks of meat for 4 dogs and £5 per month from one butcher and I have just found another local butcher who gives me all their left overs for free so pretty cheap compared to around £90 per month on dried food.