Hi,

I felt I had to post this as I want some advice from more experience people. Last weekend we went to London to stay with my husbands family. Whilst we were there we went to Bromley to get some Christmas presents and we passed a pet shop in Shortlands High Street called Animal Magic. They had adverts for puppies so we went inside as I could not believe they were selling pups there. When we walked in a family had a little westie out of its pen and it was filthy and shaking. There were about 4 different breeds and none were very clean and the pens they were in were tiny.
The dogs were being sold for £495 with pedigree papers but not KC registered. We left the pet shop without saying anything but on the way back we popped back in and I questioned the staff.
I asked if they were KC registered and the girl said no but they had predigree papers - I told her they probably were not worth the paper they were written on. I then asked why they were not KC reg and she said that that KC only lets you register so many litters from a bitch in a year. I was disgusted by this and she said it was legal - I asked her if she thought it was ethical to use a bitch in this way and she did not respond. I asked them where they get the pups from and she avoided this question so I thought it must be a puppy farm?
I then asked how they could take these pups away from their mums, lock them in pens and then sell them to families - she did not respond.
We then left the shop me telling her that I did not know how she could work there and it makes me want to cry. :(
I can't stop thinking about those poor pups and the dogs they were bred from:(

I have found out that it is not illegal to sell pups in pet shops in Bromley but is there anything at all I can do. It is awful to sell pups like this with no consideration for the dogs, they just want to make money.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks,

Jill

Hi Jill, I know the pet shop you are talking about, I used to live in south east london about 8 years ago. They have always sold pups, a work colleague bought a Samoyed puppy off of them about 10 years ago (they had popped in to have a look ), and at the time paid about £350.00 (if my memory serves me) they were given ped papers and told the kc was applied for, when they chased it up with the Kennel Club, the litter couldn't be registered as the dam had been bred too much, I think she had already had 7 litters! - the puppy had originated from Wales, where this shop got most of their stock at that time. The puppy had Kennel Cough and was really badly wormy, the pet shop ended up, after much arguing paying the vet bill for this puppy and the other dog my colleague had because it had caught kennel cough off the pup! I am suprised they are still allowed to sell puppies and that people actually buy from them :(. Legally I don't think there is anything you can do :( although the local press may take an interest - you never know! Nothing hits businesses harder than bad press! Julie:(

Hi Julie,

Thats a good idea. I'm going to find out what the local paper is in Bromley and give them a call, you never know they might be interested in running a story. I thought about calling the RSPCA as the pups were in bad condition so I might just give that a go as well. It just makes me so mad that these people can do this:(

Thanks again,

Jill

You can contact the Environmental Health officer as well, they have a role in issueing the pet shop Licence.
just as a thought, check out their opening hours for Christmas, if they are closed on any day ,and have live animals in the store, someone has to go and attend to those animals.

Hi,
A pet shop down my way sells puppies, kittens, rabbits etc. Anyway a few years ago loads of people complained to the enviromental health about the conditions they were kept in the shop was breeding hundreds of rats kept in tanks it abous. stank to high heavens, the kittens often had blood in the poop. the puppies usually jack russells were sold for around 125.00 which i think often came from home bred litters etc. Any way the rspca regulary visited and eventually the council took away the licence for sellling pets. Then new owners took over (new chap looks like the brother) applied for a licence and council has given him it. So again it is trading pets, I spoke to this new owner and said that the conditions which the animals are kept were evil. He said he planned on big pens etc. On visiting again, there were pups kept in tea chest like cages so they could only look up. I had words etc, stinks yet again. My friends and I travel into the next town to buy pet stuff. Have reported them as well to council but it just seems wrong that they give out licences to new shop owners without making sure they know how to care and look after ALL the animals. I blame the council as well surely they should visit them every so often out of the blue uninvited? Pet Shops should never be allowed to sell animals at all Esp. PUPPIES & KITTENS May be if everyone who uses the board should write to their local MP?

Report them to all bodies RSPCA< COUNCIL< and the local MP & inform the papers as well !!!!!

When I was in Boston (USA) a couple of years ago, there was a pet shop in smart shopping mall (in itself unusual to us brits), and not only did they have puppies on display, but you could even buy one on the never never.

I know it is sad Jill. There's a pet shop in Bexleyheath not far from Bromley that also continually has puppies in the shop - in glass cages (quite large) but still not nice :( :( :(

Hi Jill, I have been campaigning for years against pet shops selling puppies and ther puppy farms and commercial breeders that supply them. During this time I have learnt that you need to be very persistent with the Councils Environmental Health department who are responsible for the issue of the licence allowing the person to trade. They are issued yearly and renewable. You need to make yourself familier with the pet shop licesing act 1951/91 and the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999. Armed with information you can take on the EH department. The Licence has conditions that the pet shop must comply to (but many dont) it is up to us the public to ensure that they do and if the are not then pester the Council until they are. Councils can place extra conditions on a licence that are expedient to the purpose of the Act. If the puppies are not well then the Council should be contacted immediately whilst they are still in the shop and the RSPCA too.
If you can get others interested all the better, an article in the paper is good and could bring in information of purchasers of puppies that have been sick or died, even a letter on the letters page can help too. (please send me any details of this happening by emailing me off line as I collate this info) Could start a petition against the selling of puppies from retail outlets, could hand out leaflets ( can send you a leaflet that is very helpful) Standing outside the shop with a board or placard can draw attention to the issue especially if there are a few of you together get the local press to attend to highlight what you are doing. If you wish to tackle this privately then write leters to the Council (do not telephone unless followed by a letter because complaints are not logged if phoned in) Get the support of a local MP or Councillor. Write to Elliot Morley at DEFRA who are devising the Animal Welfare Bill. There is much to do if you are seriously concerned, believe me we need people to stand up and speak out, too many make noises and do nothing in practical terms, so please stand by your beliefs and help stop this evil trade in puppies. Too many are sold diseased and dying it is so wicked, puppies are sentient beings they should not be traded. Sadly it is not illegal but it should be. I would like to see it made law that no puppy should be sold from a third party.
PS. Were the puppies displaying on their collar or by their pen the name of the breeder who bred them? If not then they have already broken one condition of their Licence.
Pat

Hi Pat,

No they did not display who bred them, I did ask but this question was avoided. I made a complaint yesterday to the RSPCA and they are going to let me know the outcome. Could you advise how I can get hold of those acts so I can read through it and familiarise myself with it? I would like to take this further but can only do so by writing letters etc as I live on the South Coast, not Bromley.

I'll let you all know the outcome of the RSPCA visit as soon as I know.

Thanks for all you advice,

Jill

I wish rather than campaigning for more restrictions on breeding, which the commercial and puppy farmers get around anyway, that there was a concerted effort made to restrict selling. The bulk puppy producers would be most inconvienienced by having their market restricted to individual buyers coming to their premises.

This would not inconvienience the hobby/caring breeder who would not dream of parting with their puppies through a third party )other than the stud dog owner).

A start would be to ban selling of all non cage species in pet shops. the reason I say this is that the cage animals are basically in the same conditions in the shop as they would be in their homes, whereas for dogs and cats this is totally an alien environment, and their ful needs cannot be taken care of, apart from any ethics of the trade.

Pet Shops god no! I can remember on in Harrow were I used to live it always had kittens ~ pups ~ birds ~ rabbits etc. it used to upset me seeing them there looking at you all frightend. I did not think in this day and age they were allowed to have pet shops selling pets but pet shops for food and bits and peaces? :( Julieann

Hi Jill

The 1999 breeding and sale of dogs act is available in full online at the HMSO site. I'm not sure how to do links, but if you type the full title into Google, you should find it from there.

Hope that helps,

Janet

Try talking to the kennel club as is agaist kc rules to sell pups like that if you read the breeding rules of the kc pups should be sold to perm homes and not throught second or third party carnt remember exact wording without looking it up so the breeders of the pups are going agaist kc rules of breeding
ok had to look up.
Owners agree not to breed from a bitch in any way which is deleterious to the bitch or the breed.
Owners agree only to sell dogs where there is a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will help with the rehoming of a dog if the initial circumstances change.
Owners will provide written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing dogs in a new home.
Owners will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retail pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind.
Owners will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs nor mislead any person regarding the quality of the dog.
Owners will ensure that all relevant Kennel Club documents are provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a dog, including a copy of this code.
so breeders go agains most of kc code of ethics.
sandy.

Not much point in talking to the Kennel Club about these pups though as the pet shop said that they were not registered.

Lisa
xx

no lisa not that lot but what about the next litter and the next litter ect are they always unregistered.
sandy

Telephone Bromley Environmental Health. I work for a neighbouring local authority and I know that environmental health offficers (in my borough) do visit pet shops to inspect conditions after a complaint is made.

Michael
22 December 2002

theyre nearly always unregistered---or registered with the "DOG LOVERS CLUB" OR WHATEVER ITS CALLED, i dont think unregistered pups should be allowed to be sold , other than as unamed crosses or something, as who's to say theyre anymore than that, -they cant prove otherwise :(

One of the daily national papers is featuring dogs needing new homes at the moment so they might like to have a dig at one of the causes of homeless dogs - impulse buying from petshops?

Christine

Hi,

No news from the RSPCA but I guess its a busy time of year for them. I'm going to look into this properly after Christmas and see what else I can do. I just hope that the pups aren't left alone tomorrow, what an awful Christmas for them.

Jill

Hi Jill, Can you rember the name any shops that were nearby preferably next door and did the premises have flats above? You will often find that there are other concerned people in the area but lack the know how or will to do anything. If you can remember there maybe a slim chance that they are aware of the arrangements, if any, for the pups care during closing hours. Even more important are they being left at the moment. If you can remember it maybe possible that sometime during this period one of them maybe open (number from DE) a quick call could give peace of mind, if not another call to the RSPCA - that is what they are there for, the prevention of cruelty, do not worry that it is Christmas. Remember, though if you do not leave your name and tel contact number and request that you be contacted on the outcome they most proberly will not return your call. They also do not act upon anonamous (sorry, can't think how to spell it and does not look right). If I thought the puppies were left for an extended long period for certain I would have no hesitation in contacting both the RSPCA and Council emergency number. The shop should also have a key holder number if it is a lock up. The contact tel number should be logged at the local Police station, they will not, do to data protection act, give you their number but persistance may mean that they will contact the owner with your concerns or the RSPCA. There are always ways and means of obtaining help for animals in distress.
Pat

Hi Jill I have had another thought, why not this morning Christmas day, telephone the pet shop 020 8521 2586 (this is Animal Magic Walthamstow maybe not the same one or a different branch) early this morning and try to repeat as often as possible throughout the day, if someone is attending you may just catch them.
Pat

http://hmso.gov.uk/acts1999/19990011.htm
I hope that gets you there

Jill22
Hi the Environmental Health Department should also be able to advise you of the arrangements made for the puppies during the hours that the shop is closed. This is always of great concern as very few shop owners live on the premises (another reason why puppies should not be sold from a pet shop - much can happen during 24 hours with a young vulnerable puppy). It is even a larger concern over a holiday period such as Christmas, New Year and Easter when premises close for longer.
One place (now closed) was selling Rottweiler puppies (amongst others) that were, if my memory serves me right about 12/13 weeks old, they were being left over a holiday period with the shop owner comming in once a day. People living in flats above the shop and surrounding areas complained to the Council of the distress and barking. The shop eventually closed due to having to continuely replace the floor of the pens (they were in runs directly on the shop floor that was wooden) that became sodden with urine and such like in the periods when the shop was closed. This together with the puppies chewing on the wooden partitions made it not feasable to continue. The Council should not have issued a Licence in the first place, the premises were totally unsuitable and next door to a butchers! It was either Harold Hill or Harold Wood area, that issued the Pet Shop Licence.